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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On June 19 2014 06:24 TheYango wrote: You can't cost a "lane sustain" item at 2650 gold. At least not when the distinguishing sustain component only kicks in when the item is completed. Sure you can. Botrk and Hydra cost more and lots of people get those. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
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Kinie
United States3106 Posts
On June 19 2014 08:29 obesechicken13 wrote: Sure you can. Botrk and Hydra cost more and lots of people get those. You know as well as everyone else here that you get BotRK and Hydra for the actives (and against very HP-tanky teams, BotRK's passive) and not for the sustain they give. Also keep in mind BotRK got nerfed this patch on the lane sustain portions, and only buffed on the %hp damage dealt, so it's tuned more for a dueling item than a lane sustain item, which was the main reason it was purchased. If you want Reaver to be a "lane sustain" item, it costs 2300 gold for the exact same stats, maybe then I could justify it's purchase (the sell-back cost would be like 1500). As it stands now, I think you'll see Reaver on Dominion, Twisted Treeline and maybe in ARAM, that's it. The champions that - in my opinion - get the most out of it (Ezreal, Corki, Jayce, Irelia, Talon, Jax, Kha'Zix, Yi, and Varus) in about 98% of various situations would benefit more from BT, BotRK, TriForce, or IE. The only time I see myself building it now is when I try to catch back up in lane and am at fountain with odd gold amounts (like I have enough for Pickaxe or Vamp, but not BFS or Cutlass). | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On June 19 2014 08:29 obesechicken13 wrote: Sure you can. Botrk and Hydra cost more and lots of people get those. No one gets either of those items for lane sustain. | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On June 19 2014 08:29 obesechicken13 wrote: Sure you can. Botrk and Hydra cost more and lots of people get those. Botrk and Hydra are also the premier damage items in their class, the fact they give lane sustain for the like two more minutes of laning after you complete them is incidental. Their build ups also provide the same sustain the final item does, whereas if you need the mana sustain that makes reaver attractive, the build up gives you none at all. | ||
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On June 19 2014 08:29 obesechicken13 wrote: Sure you can. Botrk and Hydra cost more and lots of people get those. Neither of those are lane sustain items. They're complete dueling, splitting, or bursting items. BotRK gives you unmatched chase and single target damage in a single item (as it has damage, an on-hit, and attack speed in competitive quantities). This means that your dueling capabilities are highest with this single offensive item as compared to any other. The active is also amazingly powerful. The lifesteal is just icing really as the sustain on BotRK is not significantly higher than its components. Hydra grants you top slot efficient AD while also granting AoE and burst in its active. Its sustain is very good but again, not all that much higher than the components (unless you're in creeps). Hydra lets you split push very efficiently because it lets you clear a wave very fast without using abilities*. It is also a strong burst item due to the active, effectively giving your combo another AD ratio in the same way that Lichbane used to (though better for various reasons which aren't worth going into.) *this does save mana, but more importantly it saves cooldowns. For the most part bruisers of this type (even mana using bruisers) are cooldown limited, so if you're using your abilities to clear the wave and get jumped on you don't have your abilities to escape/fight. Riven is the most obvious example of this because her Q is so integral to her ability to fight but also her pre hydra primary wave clear. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On June 19 2014 08:37 Numy wrote: No one gets either of those items for lane sustain. Huh? Their build up allows for sustain though... | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
Like a big reason why I go botrk first Jax instead of Triforce is because then I don't have to sit on a vamp scepter. The lifesteal in lane is really good on even just a vamp scepter. Like if you're healing back for 10 damage a hit on minions and your opponent isn't then you're probably going to eventually win lane on a health advantage even if they have 10 more AD. Seriously? No one goes botrk or hydra first for the lifesteal? I'm alone here too? | ||
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jaybrundage
United States3921 Posts
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
Lifesteal is a vastly overrated stat. It provides the least combat benefit out of all AD-oriented combat stats until you get large amounts of lifesteal and AD. Even for lane sustain, if vamp scepter didn't build into such great items, people would just chug pots instead. Bork is an amazing dueling item and also great for creating picks. Post-patch, it's also stronger than BT during most stages of the game without crit. Hydra is built 100% for the active, which gives a 1.0 total AD ratio nuke. On top of that, in pro games, you don't even see pros finish Hydra most of the time. They just get Tiamat and leave it because the vamp scepter+recipe is unnecessary and wasted gold. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On June 19 2014 09:05 TyrantPotato wrote: think when OCE gets the patch ima test out urgot with that reaver shit in a normal game. Doubt it would make any change however, may as well test to be certain. Probably better off just going Muramana... | ||
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Gahlo
United States35158 Posts
On June 19 2014 09:02 jaybrundage wrote: What do people think about the mana ad item for udyr top? He doesn't need it. | ||
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Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
On June 19 2014 08:29 obesechicken13 wrote: Sure you can. Botrk and Hydra cost more and lots of people get those. I would like to report this post to the Teutonica Moderation Team. | ||
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lilwisper
United States2515 Posts
On June 18 2014 21:53 TyrantPotato wrote: mother of god shaco is so much fun. He also has fun videos to watch like this one. Or this one. One of my faves. | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
On June 19 2014 09:03 Ryuu314 wrote: No one (should) ever buys any lifesteal unless it's on their build path to a bigger item. Lifesteal is a vastly overrated stat. It provides the least combat benefit out of all AD-oriented combat stats until you get large amounts of lifesteal and AD. Even for lane sustain, if vamp scepter didn't build into such great items, people would just chug pots instead. Bork is an amazing dueling item and also great for creating picks. Post-patch, it's also stronger than BT during most stages of the game without crit. Hydra is built 100% for the active, which gives a 1.0 total AD ratio nuke. On top of that, in pro games, you don't even see pros finish Hydra most of the time. They just get Tiamat and leave it because the vamp scepter+recipe is unnecessary and wasted gold. especially now since lifesteal round 2 nerf happened. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On June 19 2014 08:54 obesechicken13 wrote: I dunno, I got botrk and hydra for lane sustain. They're incidentally insane dueling tools too but if they didn't have lifesteal on them I'd probably get something else. Like a big reason why I go botrk first Jax instead of Triforce is because then I don't have to sit on a vamp scepter. The lifesteal in lane is really good on even just a vamp scepter. Like if you're healing back for 10 damage a hit on minions and your opponent isn't then you're probably going to eventually win lane on a health advantage even if they have 10 more AD. Seriously? No one goes botrk or hydra first for the lifesteal? I'm alone here too? There is a reason most Renektons sit on Tiamat for a while... But yes, they are good lane sustain items, but are also good other items. There is a reason that even in the most poke-oriented lane situation (early botlane) you spend your 1600 on BF + Pot instead of 2 vamps and boots. Edit, hell this is why they had to change teleport just to deal with the Renekton issue because he would bully you with his damage and free sustain, and then come back to lane with a giants belt + something and you have a sad, sad, vamp scepter and he trololos because you need to auto like 30 times to make up that much HP. | ||
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On June 19 2014 08:54 obesechicken13 wrote: I dunno, I got botrk and hydra for lane sustain. They're incidentally insane dueling tools too but if they didn't have lifesteal on them I'd probably get something else. Like a big reason why I go botrk first Jax instead of Triforce is because then I don't have to sit on a vamp scepter. The lifesteal in lane is really good on even just a vamp scepter. Like if you're healing back for 10 damage a hit on minions and your opponent isn't then you're probably going to eventually win lane on a health advantage even if they have 10 more AD. Seriously? No one goes botrk or hydra first for the lifesteal? I'm alone here too? For the most part i would buy potions instead. At current prices 10% lifesteal is 440 gold. That is 1800 HP worth of potions, which would be purchased in sets of 5 (and so you would only use them as necessary) | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
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jaybrundage
United States3921 Posts
Essence Reaver UNIQUE PASSIVE NEW Makes Champion Manaless ATTACK DAMAGE +50 LIFESTEAL 10% COOLDOWN REDUCTION +10% RECIPE Vampiric Scepter + Pickaxe + 975 gold TOTAL COST 2650 gold | ||
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