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[Patch 4.10] Nidalee/Skarner Rework General Discussion - P…

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Ethelis
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States2400 Posts
June 18 2014 18:19 GMT
#221
On June 19 2014 03:17 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2014 03:13 nafta wrote:
Damn watching qtpie try to play blue ez with essence reaver is kinda sad.

It sounds like they go together, then you realize that 2% of 3% of your current mana is a really small number.


I just tried it (well TF instead of IBG), needless to say it felt like i got carried stupidly hard.
Disabled gamer - Diamond 3 (LoL) D+ Rank scrublord on BW. Bisu doesnt need DTs, He uses probes. just ask Flash.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
June 18 2014 18:20 GMT
#222
It is also counter intuitive too, cuz if you're primarily autoattack focused champion, majority of your damage is going to be coming from auto attacks, not spells. So why do you even need the mana in the first place? None of the steroids in this game are large mana burdens overtime. Essence Reaver sucks for the same reason Muramana sucks, except its' even worse, because at least Muramana has a sick end game damage spike, with overall more useful scaling with both spells and auto attack. Essence Reaver fails on both fronts.
liftlift > tsm
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-18 18:31:42
June 18 2014 18:29 GMT
#223
Having high burst mana usage (and therefore needing flat mana) is also a more common problem among autoattacking champs than moderate sustained mana usage. Most of the autoattacking champs that have "mana problems" mid-lategame are because they need 1000 mana right now, not because they need 5-10 mana every autoattack over a long period of time.
Moderator
Frolossus
Profile Joined February 2010
United States4779 Posts
June 18 2014 18:36 GMT
#224
On June 19 2014 03:29 TheYango wrote:
Having high burst mana usage (and therefore needing flat mana) is also a more common problem among autoattacking champs than moderate sustained mana usage. Most of the autoattacking champs that have "mana problems" mid-lategame are because they need 1000 mana right now, not because they need 5-10 mana every autoattack over a long period of time.

is this because steroids and stuff all have flat mana costs? what if they adjust them to work per auto attack like ashe or something
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-18 18:42:47
June 18 2014 18:40 GMT
#225
On June 19 2014 03:36 Frolossus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2014 03:29 TheYango wrote:
Having high burst mana usage (and therefore needing flat mana) is also a more common problem among autoattacking champs than moderate sustained mana usage. Most of the autoattacking champs that have "mana problems" mid-lategame are because they need 1000 mana right now, not because they need 5-10 mana every autoattack over a long period of time.

is this because steroids and stuff all have flat mana costs? what if they adjust them to work per auto attack like ashe or something

ashe is probably the only person who has a skill that uses essence reaver correctly, but her mana costs are so low it doesn't matter. oh jinx too, with her rockets.
liftlift > tsm
killerdog
Profile Joined February 2010
Denmark6522 Posts
June 18 2014 19:12 GMT
#226
This sucks, I'm gonna be in london for LCS, but don't have tickets T.T

Anyone want to try and storm wembley with me?
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-18 19:17:04
June 18 2014 19:16 GMT
#227
On June 19 2014 04:12 killerdog wrote:
This sucks, I'm gonna be in london for LCS, but don't have tickets T.T

Anyone want to try and storm wembley with me?

To be honest, if I was in London, I would rather spend my time being a silly American tourist looking at the Big Ben and Crown Jewels than watching EU LCS with a bunch of neckbeards.
liftlift > tsm
killerdog
Profile Joined February 2010
Denmark6522 Posts
June 18 2014 19:21 GMT
#228
On June 19 2014 04:16 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2014 04:12 killerdog wrote:
This sucks, I'm gonna be in london for LCS, but don't have tickets T.T

Anyone want to try and storm wembley with me?

To be honest, if I was in London, I would rather spend my time being a silly American tourist looking at the Big Ben and Crown Jewels than watching EU LCS with a bunch of neckbeards.

Maybe having lived there for more then half my life took the edge off the tourist attractions

At least I'll get to watch the england game in an actual pub for once~
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
June 18 2014 19:25 GMT
#229
On June 19 2014 04:21 killerdog wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2014 04:16 wei2coolman wrote:
On June 19 2014 04:12 killerdog wrote:
This sucks, I'm gonna be in london for LCS, but don't have tickets T.T

Anyone want to try and storm wembley with me?

To be honest, if I was in London, I would rather spend my time being a silly American tourist looking at the Big Ben and Crown Jewels than watching EU LCS with a bunch of neckbeards.

Maybe having lived there for more then half my life took the edge off the tourist attractions

At least I'll get to watch the england game in an actual pub for once~

If that's the case, go to pub, and laugh at all the butthurt when england gets rekt in WC.
liftlift > tsm
Mikau
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Netherlands1446 Posts
June 18 2014 19:39 GMT
#230
But don't laugh too hard if you don't want to get glassed.
nafta
Profile Joined August 2010
Bulgaria18893 Posts
June 18 2014 19:48 GMT
#231
Funny how nida now is actually a permaban when this update was supposed to make her into a more normal champion.
Goumindong
Profile Joined February 2013
United States3529 Posts
June 18 2014 20:00 GMT
#232
Catching up with the thread

On June 19 2014 01:30 LightningStrike wrote:
What quints do you guys run for adc's since the switch back to life steal for dorans blade?


Depends on what build path you're going for. If you're going for doran's into shiv or IE then life steal quints seem like a good idea. If you're going botrk then AD quints are probably best.

On June 19 2014 02:55 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2014 02:54 PrinceXizor wrote:
On June 19 2014 01:51 TheYango wrote:
The thing is, Essence Reaver doesn't give ANY mana before it's completed (note none of the components are mana or regen items). It's not really suitable for a champion who's mana problems would appear before it's completed--if you really feel the need for mana/regen, an item that gives you this immediately suits your needs better.

It's an uncommon pattern for a champion to not need mana early, but to need it enough to invest in an item for it 2650 gold in. Usually it's the other way round, where a champion has more mana problems early and slowly outgrows them.

So a mana heavy jungler who starts blue buff and only need machete or madreds to clear. getting it as a first big item out of the jungle.

The extra gold from the Wriggles and SpiritStone upgrade is too good to delay.


Ehhh.Not really. SpiritStone upgrades gives 6 GP/10. Which isn't all that much (much lower than the 12 GP/10 effective that a sightstone gives and the ridiculous amount of GP/10 that ). The thing that makes spirit stone items good is their upgrade efficiency (overall they have weak stats, but once you have spirit they're very efficient) and the thing that makes wriggles good is its clear.

I mean you still can't get this 2650 gold item in the jungle because its a long ways to go for a mana item you don't need because of spirit stone to buy an item which has you paying more for mana on this than you are for mana on spirit stone.

On June 18 2014 12:32 chalice wrote:
the problem with frozen heart and warmogs isn't with their completed item timings, it's the 1600/1800 gold abyss between belt/warden's and a finished item where you can only buy either a ruby crystal or a cloth armor's worth of EHP.


Yup, same problem with Zekes. On AD's its not as much of an issue because you can grab that BF sword first in a duo lane where its harder to agress. But i have a feeling that the smaller build path items will become a lot more popular than they are at the moment.

On June 18 2014 19:41 GolemMadness wrote:
With 500 AP, rank 5 Nidalee traps do 30% of current health. That's kind of random. Although I guess it's not actually that much more against squishy targets compared to old Nidalee. Does anyone else find it kind of hilarious that rank 1 takedown does a minimum of FOUR damage?


Its only more if you don't build AP. The scaling on traps is abysmal; it requires >1000 AP to double damage. Her Q ratio's are pretty decent though (375 to double, old spear was 345, Morg Q is 333, all of which are on the high scaling side)

Pen/bruiser Nid is going to be really strong.
On June 19 2014 03:40 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2014 03:36 Frolossus wrote:
On June 19 2014 03:29 TheYango wrote:
Having high burst mana usage (and therefore needing flat mana) is also a more common problem among autoattacking champs than moderate sustained mana usage. Most of the autoattacking champs that have "mana problems" mid-lategame are because they need 1000 mana right now, not because they need 5-10 mana every autoattack over a long period of time.

is this because steroids and stuff all have flat mana costs? what if they adjust them to work per auto attack like ashe or something

ashe is probably the only person who has a skill that uses essence reaver correctly, but her mana costs are so low it doesn't matter. oh jinx too, with her rockets.


Also, she is so base damage weak there is no way she could buy it; she has to rush to AD and attack speed immediately. Plus if you're going to do that you can just get tear and stack it super fast for the mid game Muramana spike.
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
June 18 2014 20:12 GMT
#233
On June 19 2014 04:48 nafta wrote:
Funny how nida now is actually a permaban when this update was supposed to make her into a more normal champion.

Well she wasn't really that strong before, just literally the only decent champion that filled a highly sought after niche.
Freeeeeeedom
Jek
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Denmark2771 Posts
June 18 2014 20:25 GMT
#234
On June 19 2014 04:21 killerdog wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2014 04:16 wei2coolman wrote:
On June 19 2014 04:12 killerdog wrote:
This sucks, I'm gonna be in london for LCS, but don't have tickets T.T

Anyone want to try and storm wembley with me?

To be honest, if I was in London, I would rather spend my time being a silly American tourist looking at the Big Ben and Crown Jewels than watching EU LCS with a bunch of neckbeards.

Maybe having lived there for more then half my life took the edge off the tourist attractions

At least I'll get to watch the england game in an actual pub for once~

I pray for your safe return, in my wild youth I once rooted for the wrong Manchester at a small pub.....
It's Elo not ELO - Every statiscian playing League
FinestHour
Profile Joined August 2010
United States18466 Posts
June 18 2014 20:32 GMT
#235
FIX DRAVEN
thug life.                                                       MVP/ex-
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
June 18 2014 20:35 GMT
#236
On June 19 2014 03:29 TheYango wrote:
Having high burst mana usage (and therefore needing flat mana) is also a more common problem among autoattacking champs than moderate sustained mana usage. Most of the autoattacking champs that have "mana problems" mid-lategame are because they need 1000 mana right now, not because they need 5-10 mana every autoattack over a long period of time.

Another problem is that Essence reaver is horribly slot inefficient for AD carries and AD assassins. It has 30 less AD than the BF items, plus doesn't contribute in other ways to your damage output, especially since Muramana exists.
Goumindong
Profile Joined February 2013
United States3529 Posts
June 18 2014 20:35 GMT
#237
On June 19 2014 05:32 FinestHour wrote:
FIX DRAVEN


Yea, like what the fuck does draven build now that BT is kinda shit
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
June 18 2014 20:40 GMT
#238
On June 19 2014 05:35 Goumindong wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2014 05:32 FinestHour wrote:
FIX DRAVEN


Yea, like what the fuck does draven build now that BT is kinda shit

IE, der.
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
June 18 2014 20:41 GMT
#239
On June 19 2014 05:35 Ryuu314 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2014 03:29 TheYango wrote:
Having high burst mana usage (and therefore needing flat mana) is also a more common problem among autoattacking champs than moderate sustained mana usage. Most of the autoattacking champs that have "mana problems" mid-lategame are because they need 1000 mana right now, not because they need 5-10 mana every autoattack over a long period of time.

Another problem is that Essence reaver is horribly slot inefficient for AD carries and AD assassins. It has 30 less AD than the BF items, plus doesn't contribute in other ways to your damage output, especially since Muramana exists.

Cooldown reduction.
FinestHour
Profile Joined August 2010
United States18466 Posts
June 18 2014 20:47 GMT
#240
On June 19 2014 05:35 Goumindong wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2014 05:32 FinestHour wrote:
FIX DRAVEN


Yea, like what the fuck does draven build now that BT is kinda shit


ya that too but actually this



most hilarious ninja nerf if they dont fix it
right after new skin wat a surprise
thug life.                                                       MVP/ex-
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