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Alright, we're going to call it a day with all the Thorin drama, guys. I figured if it was about SI, onGamers, TSM, etc, it had some relevance to League but somehow you guys managed to devolve the discussion into an issue about race of all things.
Enough is enough. Let's move along now.
-NeoIllusions |
On June 11 2014 01:58 Celial wrote:Thoughts on jungle Yasuo? Almost every OGN jungler has a few Yasuo games in his recent history, and Swift has been trying really hard to make him word in the last few days: http://www.op.gg/summoner/userName=CJ Swift
I tried Yasuo jungle when he came out. The TL;DR version is it's possible, but difficult to do as you're weak in the early levels, farm slow, and can get invaded easily. In a pro game it'll probably never work because the enemy team just 4v0 shoves a tower then invades your jungle whenever you go to farm it and kills you. It works in solo Q because it's solo Q and you need to play a champ that can carry more-so than in a pro game.
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On June 11 2014 05:09 Kinie wrote:I tried Yasuo jungle when he came out. The TL;DR version is it's possible, but difficult to do as you're weak in the early levels, farm slow, and can get invaded easily. In a pro game it'll probably never work because the enemy team just 4v0 shoves a tower then invades your jungle whenever you go to farm it and kills you. It works in solo Q because it's solo Q and you need to play a champ that can carry more-so than in a pro game.
Do you get low?
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On June 11 2014 05:09 Kinie wrote:I tried Yasuo jungle when he came out. The TL;DR version is it's possible, but difficult to do as you're weak in the early levels, farm slow, and can get invaded easily. In a pro game it'll probably never work because the enemy team just 4v0 shoves a tower then invades your jungle whenever you go to farm it and kills you. It works in solo Q because it's solo Q and you need to play a champ that can carry more-so than in a pro game.
It's absurdly fun, with deceptively powerful mid ganks. Just be careful you don't pick into the wrong team. Oh and make sure to take some AS marks.
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I'm just sad someone on NA took "LiquidBisu" before I could. T_T
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On June 11 2014 03:39 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2014 03:23 Goumindong wrote:On June 11 2014 03:10 obesechicken13 wrote:On June 11 2014 02:48 wei2coolman wrote:Helios to play in LCS this week. :D NA LCS confirmed for OGN 2.0 On June 11 2014 02:47 mr_tolkien wrote:
Singed actually has a quite a good laning phase against Teemo ah ah ah. Just take Ghost/Ignite and all-in the fucker lvl2. If you flip him the lane is over :D If you don't well you screwed up somewhere or at least he burnt flash and will therefore be very easily gankable. It was blind pick, so I had flash+teleport. The lane was pretty brutal, I had no idea what to build or what to do. I guess I'll have to try out the dshield into cowl rush. If you think you'll get wrecked early then cloth +5 or flask might be better than dshield. Dshield heals for 1.2/s and blocks 8 per auto and gives 80 hp, but that's still probably less hp than the other 2. I tried cloth vs Kayle as Garen yesterday. Seemed to work fairly well. I died once and then won lane 1v1 hard. In a 1v1 Garen's E feels worse than auto attacking when E hasn't been leveled up. It might be better to level Q until laning is over or start leveling it at 5, so you have level 5 E at level 9. The 8 damage/auto stacks up. It also reduces damage the same amount regardless of whether teemo levels e or a first and regardless of whether he goes bruiser or AP. Unlike Kayle who will zone and shove with her e then back off letting you have a grace period, teemo is going to zone all the time and because of this you need the dr from shield in order to be effective. and the 15 armour from cloth doesnt? cloth+5 is superior to dorans shield its just more spent on consumables and doesnt really build into anything useful kayle is simply an easier lane than teemo in terms of surviving the harass, it gives you more flexibility on what to build, not less.
Not if teemo is built AP rather than AD. The breakeven (where +15 armor reduces damage by 8) is 100 AD assuming you have 30 armor at level 1. If teemo comes into lane with AP the extra damage will build up really fast.
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On June 11 2014 05:14 GhandiEAGLE wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2014 05:09 Kinie wrote:On June 11 2014 01:58 Celial wrote:Thoughts on jungle Yasuo? Almost every OGN jungler has a few Yasuo games in his recent history, and Swift has been trying really hard to make him word in the last few days: http://www.op.gg/summoner/userName=CJ Swift I tried Yasuo jungle when he came out. The TL;DR version is it's possible, but difficult to do as you're weak in the early levels, farm slow, and can get invaded easily. In a pro game it'll probably never work because the enemy team just 4v0 shoves a tower then invades your jungle whenever you go to farm it and kills you. It works in solo Q because it's solo Q and you need to play a champ that can carry more-so than in a pro game. It's absurdly fun, with deceptively powerful mid ganks. Just be careful you don't pick into the wrong team. Oh and make sure to take some AS marks.
Don't get me wrong, it was fun as heck to play him from the jungle. Probably the biggest thing is to make sure you begin the gank with at least 1 Q being used on a minion or monster from the jungle, so you can E (onto minion) - Q - auto - E + Q knockup onto champion - R.
It is team/matchup dependent, and in the early levels (basically level 1-4) you do get low HP from jungle creeps due to not enough Flow and missing your full damage combos.
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On June 11 2014 05:20 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2014 03:39 Slayer91 wrote:On June 11 2014 03:23 Goumindong wrote:On June 11 2014 03:10 obesechicken13 wrote:On June 11 2014 02:48 wei2coolman wrote:Helios to play in LCS this week. :D NA LCS confirmed for OGN 2.0 On June 11 2014 02:47 mr_tolkien wrote:
Singed actually has a quite a good laning phase against Teemo ah ah ah. Just take Ghost/Ignite and all-in the fucker lvl2. If you flip him the lane is over :D If you don't well you screwed up somewhere or at least he burnt flash and will therefore be very easily gankable. It was blind pick, so I had flash+teleport. The lane was pretty brutal, I had no idea what to build or what to do. I guess I'll have to try out the dshield into cowl rush. If you think you'll get wrecked early then cloth +5 or flask might be better than dshield. Dshield heals for 1.2/s and blocks 8 per auto and gives 80 hp, but that's still probably less hp than the other 2. I tried cloth vs Kayle as Garen yesterday. Seemed to work fairly well. I died once and then won lane 1v1 hard. In a 1v1 Garen's E feels worse than auto attacking when E hasn't been leveled up. It might be better to level Q until laning is over or start leveling it at 5, so you have level 5 E at level 9. The 8 damage/auto stacks up. It also reduces damage the same amount regardless of whether teemo levels e or a first and regardless of whether he goes bruiser or AP. Unlike Kayle who will zone and shove with her e then back off letting you have a grace period, teemo is going to zone all the time and because of this you need the dr from shield in order to be effective. and the 15 armour from cloth doesnt? cloth+5 is superior to dorans shield its just more spent on consumables and doesnt really build into anything useful kayle is simply an easier lane than teemo in terms of surviving the harass, it gives you more flexibility on what to build, not less. Not if teemo is built AP rather than AD. The breakeven (where +15 armor reduces damage by 8) is 100 AD assuming you have 30 armor at level 1. If teemo comes into lane with AP the extra damage will build up really fast.
yeah but even if you block 20-40 more than cloth reduces, you can only take so many autos anyway so its quite limited, and 4 pots is 600 more HP before you need to back ,theres call it 520 -72 a minute so its reasonable to take dorans only if you're confident in avoiding most of the harass and surviing till about 1100 gold or so before basing.
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I'm pretty sure that even with its nerf, math would be in favor of Dorans start over Cloth vs. Teemo.
There are other, more skill based champions where I imagine Cloth would be a better start (Pantheon for example), but against Teemo? Nupe.
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Oh, speaking of D. Blade, with the proposed 4.10 changes and the blade getting back it's lifesteal, will it be more cost effective to go with some LS runes, get two D. Blades, then go into IE?
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On June 11 2014 06:25 Kinie wrote:
Oh, speaking of D. Blade, with the proposed 4.10 changes and the blade getting back it's lifesteal, will it be more cost effective to go with some LS runes, get two D. Blades, then go into IE?
possibly. it'll all be based on how the lane goes imo. I don't know why they're doing such big item changes midseason. Can't they just fucking hold a semi-stable meta game for longer than a couple weeks? At this rate we'll end up with the same retarded triforce bullshit like in s3 worlds.
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On June 11 2014 06:28 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2014 06:25 Kinie wrote:
Oh, speaking of D. Blade, with the proposed 4.10 changes and the blade getting back it's lifesteal, will it be more cost effective to go with some LS runes, get two D. Blades, then go into IE? possibly. it'll all be based on how the lane goes imo. I don't know why they're doing such big item changes midseason. Can't they just fucking hold a semi-stable meta game for longer than a couple weeks? At this rate we'll end up with the same retarded triforce bullshit like in s3 worlds.
Because I think they hate the current meta, even though such things happened in dota, and dota was able to work/play around with it because of more varied team comps and a larger map. The fact that league's map is smaller means that "ognTSM rotations" are that much stronger in pro games due to coordination.
The fact that top lane is a literal island where people go to die and/or get shit on (with no CS) is a problem, because top is where people expect the tank to come out of.
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On June 11 2014 04:46 JimmiC wrote:
Well I mentioned it when I was at my 3rd game in a row with both teams having a Plat + Silver duo in mid/high Gold. It's not even about the performance itself (although I lost 4 of the 5 games of the "plat/silver duo in both teams" streak), it's just... at this point it has nothing to do with what you'd expect from a full golds game. It's a mess, it's dumb, it's atrocious, and it's just no fun at all.
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On June 11 2014 06:25 Kinie wrote:
Oh, speaking of D. Blade, with the proposed 4.10 changes and the blade getting back it's lifesteal, will it be more cost effective to go with some LS runes, get two D. Blades, then go into IE?
Depends on the champion, but i expect that the path most AD's take is 2-3 DBlades into IE. Possibly 2-3 Dblades into BF into shiv/pd or Dblades into shiv into IE.
The reduction in total AD and increase in cost on BT will put it in a strange position where burst/ability AD's don't want it because it doesn't have any extra AD, and sustained damage AD's don't want it because it doesn't have a strong multiplicative scaling stats. The bonus shield is better for sustained damage AD's but they have to have time to charge it, and they have to accept lower damage in order to get that shield(which they might not even be able to use).
So who wants BT? Well someone who wants sustain but doesn't buy BotRK. Which is like Ashe after she has 3 items and needs to sell her Dblades (except due to price and damage reduction on BT BotRK is probably still better) and no one else.
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On June 11 2014 06:33 Alaric wrote:Well I mentioned it when I was at my 3rd game in a row with both teams having a Plat + Silver duo in mid/high Gold. It's not even about the performance itself (although I lost 4 of the 5 games of the "plat/silver duo in both teams" streak), it's just... at this point it has nothing to do with what you'd expect from a full golds game. It's a mess, it's dumb, it's atrocious, and it's just no fun at all.
Are you sure it's a duo? When I was climbing out of Silver 1, I was being placed with Plat V's and Gold II's.
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On June 11 2014 06:33 Alaric wrote:Well I mentioned it when I was at my 3rd game in a row with both teams having a Plat + Silver duo in mid/high Gold. It's not even about the performance itself (although I lost 4 of the 5 games of the "plat/silver duo in both teams" streak), it's just... at this point it has nothing to do with what you'd expect from a full golds game. It's a mess, it's dumb, it's atrocious, and it's just no fun at all.
luckily, soon you will only be able to duo with someone 1 division high or lower than you, hopefully cutting most of the high/low duo bullshit
it will probably just lead to more high elo people creating smurfs though
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On June 11 2014 06:38 thenexusp wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2014 06:33 Alaric wrote:On June 11 2014 04:46 JimmiC wrote: Well I mentioned it when I was at my 3rd game in a row with both teams having a Plat + Silver duo in mid/high Gold. It's not even about the performance itself (although I lost 4 of the 5 games of the "plat/silver duo in both teams" streak), it's just... at this point it has nothing to do with what you'd expect from a full golds game. It's a mess, it's dumb, it's atrocious, and it's just no fun at all. luckily, soon you will only be able to duo with someone 1 division high or lower than you, hopefully cutting most of the high/low duo bullshit it will probably just lead to more high elo people creating smurfs though
Hopefully next they'll start mass banning smurf accounts.
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On June 11 2014 06:35 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2014 06:33 Alaric wrote:On June 11 2014 04:46 JimmiC wrote: Well I mentioned it when I was at my 3rd game in a row with both teams having a Plat + Silver duo in mid/high Gold. It's not even about the performance itself (although I lost 4 of the 5 games of the "plat/silver duo in both teams" streak), it's just... at this point it has nothing to do with what you'd expect from a full golds game. It's a mess, it's dumb, it's atrocious, and it's just no fun at all. Are you sure it's a duo? When I was climbing out of Silver 1, I was being placed with Plat V's and Gold II's.
LoLnexus knows. And from then I know myself if the guy duoing with him's legit too (he's not; or he had a very bad day because there's no way I'd have gotten close to Plat if I played like some of them).
Edit: as I mentioned in the posts later, most of these weren't bot duos, and even in general I remember bot being maybe the highest combination of duos in my games, but still far from being half of them.
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On June 11 2014 06:35 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2014 06:25 Kinie wrote:
Oh, speaking of D. Blade, with the proposed 4.10 changes and the blade getting back it's lifesteal, will it be more cost effective to go with some LS runes, get two D. Blades, then go into IE? Depends on the champion, but i expect that the path most AD's take is 2-3 DBlades into IE. Possibly 2-3 Dblades into BF into shiv/pd or Dblades into shiv into IE. The reduction in total AD and increase in cost on BT will put it in a strange position where burst/ability AD's don't want it because it doesn't have any extra AD, and sustained damage AD's don't want it because it doesn't have a strong multiplicative scaling stats. The bonus shield is better for sustained damage AD's but they have to have time to charge it, and they have to accept lower damage in order to get that shield(which they might not even be able to use). So who wants BT? Well someone who wants sustain but doesn't buy BotRK. Which is like Ashe after she has 3 items and needs to sell her Dblades (except due to price and damage reduction on BT BotRK is probably still better) and no one else.
BT will still be better than IE for burst damage ADs because the assumption is going IE will require a Pickaxes worth of gold put into sustain of whatever sort.
So the burst damage AD gets more AD from the BT path than the IE path and also finishes LW faster.
I also think the BT changes will open it up to melees more. I think BT+Hydra+LW Riven might be real strong.
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On June 11 2014 06:45 Ketara wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2014 06:35 Goumindong wrote:On June 11 2014 06:25 Kinie wrote:
Oh, speaking of D. Blade, with the proposed 4.10 changes and the blade getting back it's lifesteal, will it be more cost effective to go with some LS runes, get two D. Blades, then go into IE? Depends on the champion, but i expect that the path most AD's take is 2-3 DBlades into IE. Possibly 2-3 Dblades into BF into shiv/pd or Dblades into shiv into IE. The reduction in total AD and increase in cost on BT will put it in a strange position where burst/ability AD's don't want it because it doesn't have any extra AD, and sustained damage AD's don't want it because it doesn't have a strong multiplicative scaling stats. The bonus shield is better for sustained damage AD's but they have to have time to charge it, and they have to accept lower damage in order to get that shield(which they might not even be able to use). So who wants BT? Well someone who wants sustain but doesn't buy BotRK. Which is like Ashe after she has 3 items and needs to sell her Dblades (except due to price and damage reduction on BT BotRK is probably still better) and no one else. BT will still be better than IE for burst damage ADs because the assumption is going IE will require a Pickaxes worth of gold put into sustain of whatever sort. So the burst damage AD gets more AD from the BT path than the IE path and also finishes LW faster. I also think the BT changes will open it up to melees more. I think BT+Hydra+LW Riven might be real strong.
Why would starting IE require putting a pickaxe worth into sustain?That makes no sense.Also bt was more expensive in the last changes so that definitely makes it kinda bad(for adc).
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On June 11 2014 06:40 Ketara wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2014 06:38 thenexusp wrote:On June 11 2014 06:33 Alaric wrote:On June 11 2014 04:46 JimmiC wrote: Well I mentioned it when I was at my 3rd game in a row with both teams having a Plat + Silver duo in mid/high Gold. It's not even about the performance itself (although I lost 4 of the 5 games of the "plat/silver duo in both teams" streak), it's just... at this point it has nothing to do with what you'd expect from a full golds game. It's a mess, it's dumb, it's atrocious, and it's just no fun at all. luckily, soon you will only be able to duo with someone 1 division high or lower than you, hopefully cutting most of the high/low duo bullshit it will probably just lead to more high elo people creating smurfs though Hopefully next they'll start mass banning smurf accounts.
There are also people who will win some games really hard but then feed intentionally when they don't get the role they want or will afk on their first death if they do die first.
Riot can reduce the weird skill discrepancies but not remove them entirely.
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EPT
