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Alright, we're going to call it a day with all the Thorin drama, guys. I figured if it was about SI, onGamers, TSM, etc, it had some relevance to League but somehow you guys managed to devolve the discussion into an issue about race of all things. Enough is enough. Let's move along now. -NeoIllusions | ||
739
Bearded Elder29903 Posts
On June 06 2014 15:36 Lylat wrote: Holy shit this looks like a completly different game lol Well that was actually what I was waiting for. Improve Summoners Rift VU + new, updated models for champions and this game's gonna be 100x better and more eye-friendly. I'm so hyped. Wondering if they will adapt those changes in 2014... | ||
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Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
So here's the item changes, new support item sounds hilarious, new ADC item looks okay but I probably wouldn't build it on any ADC atm. | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
Itemization changes as well. 8% physical per hit on blade. That's going to be brutal. Jax is just going to wreck everybody. Locket is still on the expensive side as far as support items go. Randuin's Omen effectively gave non gap-closing fighters a way into fights. Uhhh....no. It gave people with gapclosers a way to stick to people really fucking well after using their gap closer almost every time its used. There are only 2 melee's without gapclosing abilities that even see pro play - Mundo and trundle. Insert mobility creep whine. Trundle has a long range catch, and ridiculously strong teamfighting ultimate, and mundo is mundo. The last melee without a gap closer was darius(rengar if that counts), and even then he has a way to bring his opponents to him. Last one without a way to interact with opponents at range is voli. | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
Maybe its because you purposely made all of them CC wrecking machines and introduced braum to further enforce that support meta while simultaneously shitting on all sustain supports? Idk just a thought. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
It might be picked up by a bruiser/caster, but even then I highly doubt it since it's completely outclassed in terms of efficiency damage-wise by Tiamat and Bork and outclassed sustain-wise by Chalice. | ||
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Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
On June 06 2014 16:36 VayneAuthority wrote: its like riot forgot that they are the ones that can change and control the game. Oh no rise of no sustain supports, dunno why thats happening but guess we gotta change items cause of it. Maybe its because you purposely made all of them CC wrecking machines and introduced braum to further enforce that support meta while simultaneously shitting on all sustain supports? Idk just a thought. It's weird to read their explanations on "this is how the game is played now" as if it was some sort of emergent gameplay as opposed to unintended downstream effects of intended changes. Their SR update video mentions "hopefully our changes to baron and dragon will encourage more emergent gameplay" which might be true in the long run as more interaction => higher possibility of edge cases, but in the short term it isn't emergent at all. Emergent gameplay is when the game has basically zero changes for 5 years and then Savior figures out how to ZvT. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On June 06 2014 16:41 Ryuu314 wrote: Meh. I think Essence Reaver's gonna be a trash item. No ad carry will buy it since they will always want to go for the most optimal damage build (with the single notable exception of Blue Ezreal, which isn't really a good build anymore anyways). An entire item slot that only gives 50 ad will not be worth it, especially since the vast majority of AD carries don't give 2 shits about the mana passive. Urgot might like it, but even on him I'd rather get Manamune. It might be picked up by a bruiser/caster, but even then I highly doubt it since it's completely outclassed in terms of efficiency damage-wise by Tiamat and Bork and outclassed sustain-wise by Chalice. reaver would definitely be worth it 500 gold cheaper. both laners go for BT but one carry gets zoned out by a jungler and bails early on the BT to pick up reaver so they can fight before the BT comes online and try to claw themselves back. but its too expensive for that, now its a more utility based BT so its just not useful for that lane. | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On June 06 2014 16:41 Ryuu314 wrote: Meh. I think Essence Reaver's gonna be a trash item. No ad carry will buy it since they will always want to go for the most optimal damage build. An entire item slot that only gives 50 ad will not be worth it, especially since the vast majority of AD carries don't give 2 shits about the mana passive. It might be picked up by a bruiser/caster, but even then I highly doubt it since it's completely outclassed in terms of efficiency damage-wise by Tiamat and Bork and outclassed sustain-wise by Chalice. Jayce would be one champ I can see it being built on. Restores more than muramana would use, and that solves his need for lifesteal and CDR and AD all in one item. MAYBE olaf. Long shot here, but he's mana reliant, CDR reliant and a bit of lifesteal goes a long way along with AD. Udyr, but that's a midgame solution to an early/mid game problem. Lategame udyr doesn't have mana problems, and can get his stats elsewhere. I guess if you got really fed on WW it'd be cool. I wonder if the mana restore is really on basic attack, or if it's onhit. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On June 06 2014 16:43 PrinceXizor wrote: reaver would definitely be worth it 500 gold cheaper. both laners go for BT but one carry gets zoned out by a jungler and bails early on the BT to pick up reaver so they can fight before the BT comes online and try to claw themselves back. but its too expensive for that, now its a more utility based BT so its just not useful for that lane. Except now there's almost no reason to go BT. Just go Genja build with 2~3 Dorans into IE. BT doesn't give more damage than IE now. The only upside of BT over IE is the lifesteal since the passive is pretty trash. Lifesteal in general is an overrated stat outside the laning phase. With DBlades giving lifesteal again, there's no reason to get an early vamp. Essence reaver is terrible in terms of gold efficiency, especially when you consider that a single BF sword gives the same amount of damage for 1k gold less. On June 06 2014 16:43 Amui wrote: Jayce would be one champ I can see it being built on. Restores more than muramana would use, and that solves his need for lifesteal and CDR and AD all in one item. MAYBE olaf. Long shot here, but he's mana reliant, CDR reliant and a bit of lifesteal goes a long way. I disagree with Jayce getting it. First off, the passive only procs on basic attacks. As Jayce you want a large mana pool and/or mana regen so you can spam your Q+E poke before going for the kill with basic attacks. Muramana provides more than enough mana for Jayce AND gives more damage. I also can't see Olaf ever picking it up. He doesn't need mana or mana regen except very early on in the game when you can't afford it. For CDR, just pick up a FH/Visage and if you really want damage get a Ghostblade. It synergizes much better with his kit anyways. Essence reaver is just a terrible item as it is. 2.65k for 50 damage and 10 lifesteal. You can just buy a BF, Vamp scepter, and a Dblade for the same 10 more AD, 1% more lifesteal, and 450 more HP for 150 more gold. The question is whether that passive is worth the gold. Since that passive is basically a shitty version of Chalice passive, I'm gonna say no, it's not worth it. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On June 06 2014 16:43 Amui wrote: MAYBE olaf. Long shot here, but he's mana reliant, CDR reliant and a bit of lifesteal goes a long way. Olaf would rather use the BT shield to get a free reckless swing off as the fight starts i'd imagine. and its not significantly cheaper to provide an earlier timing. | ||
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arb
Noobville17920 Posts
On June 06 2014 16:28 Amui wrote: http://community.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-feedback/621miiU8-planned-410-item-changes-attack-damage-attack-speed-wardens-mail-support-itemization Itemization changes as well. 8% physical per hit on blade. That's going to be brutal. Jax is just going to wreck everybody. Locket is still on the expensive side as far as support items go. Uhhh....no. It gave people with gapclosers a way to stick to people really fucking well after using their gap closer almost every time its used. There are only 2 melee's without gapclosing abilities that even see pro play - Mundo and trundle. Insert mobility creep whine. Trundle has a long range catch, and ridiculously strong teamfighting ultimate, and mundo is mundo. The last melee without a gap closer was darius(rengar if that counts), and even then he has a way to bring his opponents to him. Last one without a way to interact with opponents at range is voli. They shit on the rest of blade though so i think 5->8 wont be a huge deal | ||
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arb
Noobville17920 Posts
On June 06 2014 16:43 Amui wrote: Jayce would be one champ I can see it being built on. Restores more than muramana would use, and that solves his need for lifesteal and CDR and AD all in one item. MAYBE olaf. Long shot here, but he's mana reliant, CDR reliant and a bit of lifesteal goes a long way along with AD. Udyr, but that's a midgame solution to an early/mid game problem. Lategame udyr doesn't have mana problems, and can get his stats elsewhere. I guess if you got really fed on WW it'd be cool. I wonder if the mana restore is really on basic attack, or if it's onhit. Gonna be trucking kids with those Muramana W procs. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
I mean...99% of the time if you're having mana problems on an AD carry or AD bruiser you're either playing a shit champion or you need to learn to manage your mana better. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On June 06 2014 16:47 Ryuu314 wrote: Except now there's almost no reason to go BT. Just go Genja build with 2~3 Dorans into IE. BT doesn't give more damage than IE now. The only upside of BT over IE is the lifesteal since the passive is pretty trash. Lifesteal in general is an overrated stat outside the laning phase. With DBlades giving lifesteal again, there's no reason to get an early vamp. Essence reaver is terrible in terms of gold efficiency, especially when you consider that a single BF sword gives the same amount of damage for 1k gold less. 2-3 dorans into IE is significantly more money than a BT however. you could have an avarice blade + BT +zeal or almost have last whisper for the cost of 3 dorans IE. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On June 06 2014 16:55 PrinceXizor wrote: 2-3 dorans into IE is significantly more money than a BT however. you could have an avarice blade + BT +zeal or almost have last whisper for the cost of 3 dorans IE. True, but the buildup is arguably easier for 2 Dblade IE. 3 Dblade probably overkill. BT requires you to save up large sums twice - once for BF sword, once for recipe (it costs 1.1k now). Maybe BT will still be worth buying over IE, but I doubt it. Lifesteal isn't a very good stat, generally speaking. The lifesteal you get from runes+Dblade is sufficient. People have been moving away from lifesteal quints since BT is a core item. But with this change, AD carries will probably go back to using lifesteal quints, stack a couple DBlades, then start working on their big damage item, in which case IE is better than BT. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
Essence Reaver sucks. Not slot efficient, not even that gold efficient. They mention Ez/Graves/Corki/Draven/Sivir as heavy mana users, but they're mana management problems is not even that severe, at least not worth the slot inefficiency that this creates. Mikaels nerf is unnecessary, should have just lowered the cost of all the other active support items by a fuckton. Athene's nerf is gunna be pretty brutal. AP burst casters are going to tear through a lot of people, gunna make matchups a lot more volatile imo. Randuins ms nerf is nice, dunno if it was a wise choice to nerf the AS debuff though... People still going to buy this over Frzn Heart. Mostly because Frozen heart fucking blows right now. DL had interesting twitter post about, if IE rush is the "go to" build in botlane, it's still early enough that bot lane trades will be tied to whoever gets the first crit, which is a lot of RNG | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On June 06 2014 17:06 wei2coolman wrote: Just me or did BotRK get rekt? That Lifesteal difference is massive... Also they didn't give it anymore AS despite dagger buff. It's a net loss in lifesteal, but it's not necessarily that big. The proc damage is going up, which means the proc heal also goes up. 5% lifesteal loss for 3% target current health heal. It's a net loss, yes, but I don't think it's gonna be that huge. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On June 06 2014 17:10 PrinceXizor wrote: BTs passive gives an advantage to having more lifesteal though, as all your excess lifesteal helps build the shield quicker when you top off hp. You should be going for BT over IE when you have a timing in mind to use the BT its now an item that favors initiating teams to let your carry build up the shield right before the fight and then go in with bonus shield. Yes, but the shield only builds when you're full hp. You're realistically never really gonna have full hp except when you're farming and first entering a fight. The new BT passive is kinda like a one time 400 hp shield that you have to charge up before hand. Not to mention that the shield apparently decays if you haven't hit anything for 15 seconds, so it's not like you can splitpush, build up shield, then walk around with an extra 400 hp. I really don't think that's gonna be better than IE passive. | ||
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