EPT[Patch 4.8] RIP Pantheon General Discussion - Page 89
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kongoline
6318 Posts
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On June 03 2014 21:17 kongoline wrote: rework kass(got even buffed before they immediately nerfed it back and he was considered as broken as before lol), rework rengar, rework khazix (even pros considered him meh before he become most broken jungler in the game and also played mid), rework leblac also took some time before she caught up Pretty sure Kassadin is stronger now than he was right after rework. IIRC, his W has 40 more damage and 0.1 more AP scaling. I'm also personally not sold on the Kassadin OP train. When I've seen him played in pro games post 4.7 he seems kinda meh. The only time I've seen him do really really well post-rework was during OGN finals, but that was 4.6, before the Q buff revert. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
I really like the Kassadin rework actually, I think of recent reworks it seems to be one of the more successful ones. I know the Lux v Kassadin matchup (which is all I care about obviously. Obviously) is way more fun for both parties than it was previously. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
It was... frustrating. May as well have played alone, since whether I used spells on him or not didn't matter ('cept for my mana bar). Good thing they nerfed the shield's ratio. | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
I notice even nightblue uses camera lock but can scroll when necessary. I find it such an inconvenience to aim when your perspective is changing with respect to the map as well as your opponents. I hate scrolling while chasing though and am not Korean enough yet to use SZXC to scroll yet. | ||
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kongoline
6318 Posts
On June 04 2014 00:38 Ketara wrote: Kassadin I think is strong in specific comps against specific comps, but he's also easier to shut down by counterpicking him now, so you can't first pick him anymore. I really like the Kassadin rework actually, I think of recent reworks it seems to be one of the more successful ones. I know the Lux v Kassadin matchup (which is all I care about obviously. Obviously) is way more fun for both parties than it was previously. i feel like now he is way safer to first pick than before rework lol | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On June 04 2014 00:41 Alaric wrote: I played against him once, as Orianna, and because despite autoing him a bunch I failed to get a real cs lead over him he just walked up to me, Q'd me and he would absorb almost all of my QW damage with the retarded-ass shield. Then he hit 6, bought sheen first, and did RQW combos to take a third of my health while only taking my autoattack damage from when he retreated in return. It was... frustrating. May as well have played alone, since whether I used spells on him or not didn't matter ('cept for my mana bar). Good thing they nerfed the shield's ratio. His shield is only up for 1.5 seconds of every 9. Why are you QWing him while he has a shield? | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On June 04 2014 00:41 Alaric wrote: I played against him once, as Orianna, and because despite autoing him a bunch I failed to get a real cs lead over him he just walked up to me, Q'd me and he would absorb almost all of my QW damage with the retarded-ass shield. Then he hit 6, bought sheen first, and did RQW combos to take a third of my health while only taking my autoattack damage from when he retreated in return. It was... frustrating. May as well have played alone, since whether I used spells on him or not didn't matter ('cept for my mana bar). Good thing they nerfed the shield's ratio. eh. on the current patch his shield doesn't really block that much damage. plus, his Q not silencing anymore means enemy laners can retaliate against his harass pretty easily. Unless Kassadin uses his W, he will get outtraded by almost anyone, even taking his shield into consideration. If he uses his W, he's reasonably all-in. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
That's what was so annoying about his shield: instant and big, like Riven's, so really easy to hold onto and use reactively when people are foolish enough to believe they can harass you. ^ well yeah that's why I said that game was against pre-Q nerf Kassadin. 0.8 AP ratio on a magic damage shield from a champion with MR/level and a 15% magic damage reduction-granting passive, every single point of AP was crazy efficient on that thing. 0.3 is a much, much tamer ratio. v and Pantheon does too. Yes. Doesn't mean it wasn't frustrating to play against, I never said Kassadin was OP as balls or anything, just that this iteration of Kassadin was boring to face as magic damage-dealing champion. ._. Geez. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
It's more difficult to do post 6 but I think even with the shield pre 6 most laners should be beating on him. And then things like Talon or Fiora just turn him into shredded cheese. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On June 04 2014 00:56 Alaric wrote: 'cause the shield is immediate so he could just wait to see the ball move, Q me (or a minion if I'm somehow not in range) and instantly block all of it. It's a shield on cast, it doesn't have the slight delay Lulu or Orianna have (Ori has some even if she self-casts while she carries the ball; about Lulu I'm not sure, but a few months ago I had a very perceptible delay if I tried to self cast her E, not long but still there (and enough to get me killed sometimes), and the projectile doesn't need to hit like Viktor's does. That's what was so annoying about his shield: instant and big, like Riven's, so really easy to hold onto and use reactively when people are foolish enough to believe they can harass you. ^ well yeah that's why I said that game was against pre-Q nerf Kassadin. 0.8 AP ratio on a magic damage shield from a champion with MR/level and a 15% magic damage reduction-granting passive, every single point of AP was crazy efficient on that thing. 0.3 is a much, much tamer ratio. v and Pantheon does too. Yes. Doesn't mean it wasn't frustrating to play against, I never said Kassadin was OP as balls or anything, just that this iteration of Kassadin was boring to face as magic damage-dealing champion. ._. Geez. I don't think Kassadin gets MR/level anymore...thought they removed that with his rework. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
It's still synergising pretty well with his passive (and the innate MR naturally improving the efficiency of AP scaling on HP shields; although iirc sorcs+MPen marks and quints will drop someone from 30 to 1.4 MR or something, 0 if you have the penetration mastery, but that's a rare case). | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On June 04 2014 00:56 Alaric wrote: 'cause the shield is immediate so he could just wait to see the ball move, Q me (or a minion if I'm somehow not in range) and instantly block all of it. It's a shield on cast, it doesn't have the slight delay Lulu or Orianna have (Ori has some even if she self-casts while she carries the ball; about Lulu I'm not sure, but a few months ago I had a very perceptible delay if I tried to self cast her E, not long but still there (and enough to get me killed sometimes), and the projectile doesn't need to hit like Viktor's does. That's what was so annoying about his shield: instant and big, like Riven's, so really easy to hold onto and use reactively when people are foolish enough to believe they can harass you. So don't use your spells until after he Q's. You're Orianna, you have powerful ranged autoattacks. He's Kassadin. Pre6 if you're autoing him properly his choices are to either use his skills to CS/harass you back, or lose the lane. He doesn't have the luxury of not using his skills. Once you've made him Q something with your autos, wait till the shield is gone and hit him back. You will out trade him. This eventually forces him to play super passive, and you go into level 6 with a lead. Post 6 it gets harder, but hopefully you are a dorans ring or so ahead of him by then. That's how Lux v. Kass works anyway, and I know Orianna and Lux are pretty similar. It is a much more involved and fun matchup than it used to be with the silence, IMO. | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On June 04 2014 00:41 Alaric wrote: I played against him once, as Orianna, and because despite autoing him a bunch I failed to get a real cs lead over him he just walked up to me, Q'd me and he would absorb almost all of my QW damage with the retarded-ass shield. Then he hit 6, bought sheen first, and did RQW combos to take a third of my health while only taking my autoattack damage from when he retreated in return. It was... frustrating. May as well have played alone, since whether I used spells on him or not didn't matter ('cept for my mana bar). Good thing they nerfed the shield's ratio. Who are we talking about? And when did Kass get a shield? Oh wtf.. | ||
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kongoline
6318 Posts
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On June 04 2014 00:44 obesechicken13 wrote: Camera lock: Y/N I notice even nightblue uses camera lock but can scroll when necessary. I find it such an inconvenience to aim when your perspective is changing with respect to the map as well as your opponents. I hate scrolling while chasing though and am not Korean enough yet to use SZXC to scroll yet. center screen lock is really nice for teamfights. | ||
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On June 03 2014 17:16 obesechicken13 wrote: Yeah, I feel like a few other champions have been put in lanes where they don't belong like Kayle and Jayce top. Jayce is so strong bot lane o_0. I know TL inhouses used to run it. Kayle works in about any lane but bottom i think. And Jayce was a very very strong top in the age of ranged tops. He only fell off with the doran's shield buffs which basically removed every ranged top | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On June 04 2014 01:27 kongoline wrote: do u guys think lulu will get nerfed? i think about buying her for top/mid mainly but dont want spend 6k ip on something which is going to get gutted soon I don't think Lulu will get nerfed anymore. Personally, I don't think she deserves the amount of pick priority she's getting right now in pro play. | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
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