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[Patch 4.8] RIP Pantheon General Discussion - Page 90

Forum Index > LoL General
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nafta
Profile Joined August 2010
Bulgaria18893 Posts
June 03 2014 17:13 GMT
#1781
Because triforce exists.
turdburgler
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
England6749 Posts
June 03 2014 17:13 GMT
#1782
why not both
Anakko
Profile Joined August 2012
France1934 Posts
June 03 2014 17:20 GMT
#1783
Well, as Lucian you'll want your bt first and triforce second pretty much always. The usual third item is last whisper, then either a defensive item or _most of the time_ a Bork ( I heard it's better than IE as a 4th dmg item on lucian). Statikk doesn't bring anything more than any of these items. So at best it would be your last item? Honestly I'd get a zephyr for tenacity but that's just me.

So yeah, because Triforce exists.
TrAce/Cpt Jack for president (or both)
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-03 17:32:23
June 03 2014 17:20 GMT
#1784
On June 04 2014 02:04 Goumindong wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 03 2014 17:16 obesechicken13 wrote:
On June 03 2014 15:54 Goumindong wrote:
On June 03 2014 15:50 GolemMadness wrote:
On June 03 2014 12:52 Ketara wrote:
On June 03 2014 10:47 Gahlo wrote:
On June 03 2014 10:34 cLutZ wrote:
My issue with the Olaf rework is that I don't think Riot knows what they want him to be (or at least cannot convey it). He has a huge Lifesteal and AS steroids in his kit (plus the AA CD reduction on E), which would be awesome if he was supposed to be a beastly Splitpusher+Duelist, but he isn't really, because his ult is really about diving, his Q has too high of a mana cost, and overall he just doesn't deserve the farm you get from being a dedicated splitpusher. So maybe he should be a teamfighter? Well, not really, because he is bad at peeling, and bad at poking, and is pretty easy to kill as far as divers are concerned. Also, without a dash, he isn't even that threatening without a massive speed differential.

So I think they took a kit that made sense (DIVE DIVE DIVE), and replaced it with one that didnt (Dive? Hide?). Right after a few (quickly reverted/lowered) buffs Post-Rework, he had a brief period where he was really strong in speed comps but because his jungle farming and ganks were so good he was getting ahead in the jungle, which is really what his kit is kinda meant to do now: Powerfarm, duel squishies, and snowball leads. However, that proved to be an unsustainable niche, so we are back at a weak (not terrible), and confusing Olaf.

Or, you could think about it this way... Q will hit people who are chasing after you but can't immediately get to you, and ult stops people from locking you down while you try to escape(catch ya later gold card). Tada, everything you harped on for not fitting a splitpusher put into a splitpush context.

He can dive all he wants with ghostblade.

On June 03 2014 10:41 Ketara wrote:
On June 03 2014 10:34 Amui wrote:
On June 03 2014 10:31 Ketara wrote:
What recent champions were considered bad at release and then months later nerfed to be worse than their release state? I am wondering.

Elise. Got buffed first couple patches into a train of consecutive nerfs.


I guess, if a 20 month old champion is considered recent.

She and Zed may be the best examples, and they're both nearly 2 years old. I feel like champions released in the last year people have picked up on pretty quickly.

Not to mention new champions are now more than 2 months apart these days.

Maybe you could say that when they were putting out 26 champions a year. Currently she's still in the most recent 15.

For another example, Yasuo(3rd most recent.)


Nobody thought Yasuo was bad on release.


Yasuo had like a 40% win rate for at least a week upon release. Pretty sure plenty of people thought he was bad.


They were playing him top was the problem. He isn't really a top and gets beat by a lot of meta champions up there.

Yeah, I feel like a few other champions have been put in lanes where they don't belong like Kayle and Jayce top. Jayce is so strong bot lane o_0. I know TL inhouses used to run it.


Kayle works in about any lane but bottom i think. And Jayce was a very very strong top in the age of ranged tops. He only fell off with the doran's shield buffs which basically removed every ranged top

She kinda sucks top vs Jax and Irelia once they get big enough to fight her though and many other uncommon tanky tops like Garen and Volibear destroy her if your ping is just slightly high for one second. I don't have ping problems anymore but I used to and Kayle was monstrously hard to play. I liked her so much more mid where at worst someone like brand or lb could harass her. And while her jungling clear speed was fine I didn't feel comfortable invading as her or ganking through wards when I could just bypass them as Nocturne, or Rengar, or at least have my allies bait them and then come in with a gap closer on Sejuani.

Jayce might be a good top against some laners but I still feel he has trouble against ones who can build armor and he gets outdueled and often killed in dives by equally farmed Tryndameres. Irelia and Jax still crush him. I know every top laner has counters but Jayce could at least bear to have a good matchup top.

Bot lane his EQ is actually consequential dealing 20-30% of a squishie's life, giving an ally movement speed, and just outdueling AD carries at their weakest.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
AsnSensation
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany24009 Posts
June 03 2014 17:21 GMT
#1785
Because then he doesnt have lw until 4th item and triforce simply >>> shiv cause sheen is stupidly good on lucian and he probably needs every point of mana he can get. Prob champ i buy the most manapots on.
Nos-
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Canada12016 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-03 17:38:38
June 03 2014 17:33 GMT
#1786
Lulu's getting picked because shyv + lulu is crazy strong. Also kogmaw. Her being a safe pick and being able to play top and mid (to a lesser extend support) also doesn't hurt.
Bronze player stuck in platinum
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-03 17:39:31
June 03 2014 17:37 GMT
#1787
I don't think Lulu's under the Radar. I don't follow twitter though, sometimes Riot or Pros talk about champions and when a lot of pros say something is annoying it generally gets nerfed.

She's also not on any pbe patch notes afaik.

But she is a support mid so I still get the feeling she's going to get nerfed.

She just got nerfed in April, and she's been on PBE patch notes for nerfs in March. Nvm, nerfs likely still coming.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
chalice
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1945 Posts
June 03 2014 17:42 GMT
#1788
i think lulu is in a good spot, still strong but got nerfed hard enough that the general public tends to underrate and not play her that much.

eventually she will get played more and more when people realize her nerfs didn't ruin her and then get nerfed again, but it'll take awhile.
KissBlade
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
United States5718 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-03 17:57:17
June 03 2014 17:56 GMT
#1789
I start Dorans blade versus Kassadin as Orianna. The extra auto damages add up very quickly level 1-2.
GrandInquisitor *
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
New York City13113 Posts
June 03 2014 18:00 GMT
#1790
On June 04 2014 02:20 obesechicken13 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 04 2014 02:04 Goumindong wrote:
Kayle works in about any lane but bottom i think. And Jayce was a very very strong top in the age of ranged tops. He only fell off with the doran's shield buffs which basically removed every ranged top

She kinda sucks top vs Jax and Irelia once they get big enough to fight her though and many other uncommon tanky tops like Garen and Volibear destroy her if your ping is just slightly high for one second. I don't have ping problems anymore but I used to and Kayle was monstrously hard to play.

Kayle vs Darius is the ultimate test of ping.
What fun is it being cool if you can’t wear a sombrero?
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
June 03 2014 18:03 GMT
#1791
On June 04 2014 02:42 chalice wrote:
i think lulu is in a good spot, still strong but got nerfed hard enough that the general public tends to underrate and not play her that much.

eventually she will get played more and more when people realize her nerfs didn't ruin her and then get nerfed again, but it'll take awhile.

Generally the player base follows the pros though and I still saw her in games on Saturday in the LCS.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-03 18:07:15
June 03 2014 18:05 GMT
#1792
On June 04 2014 02:10 turdburgler wrote:
why isnt static shiv core on lucian? with his passive he stacks it up crazy fast.

cuz triforce burst is better, and better mobility in teamfight.

On June 04 2014 02:13 turdburgler wrote:
why not both


Cuz, core is BT-TF-LW, the 4th offensive item choice IE is much better, since his passive gives free AS (essentially), so crit scales insanely well without having to build AS. Stattik shiv might be fine, if you can afford to go 5 offensive items, but if that was the case I rather get a BotRK for insane lifesteal for tankiness, and peel.
liftlift > tsm
Goumindong
Profile Joined February 2013
United States3529 Posts
June 03 2014 18:12 GMT
#1793
On June 04 2014 02:10 turdburgler wrote:
why isnt static shiv core on lucian? with his passive he stacks it up crazy fast.


What are you going to remove in order to make it core? Lucian doesn't need much attack speed beyond Triforce and Boots 2, which give him +114% level 18 attack speed (a 4% scaler with PD hits +147%) not including masteries. And since Lucian spends a lot of time in abilities animations he doesn't actually get that much from attack speed.

With his ult, you get 24.5 shots with BT, Triforce, Zerks, and Shiv. You get 21.8 with BT, Triforce, LW, IE. But IE does 123 per shot for 2680 total damage while Shiv does 105.5 for 2584 total

Sure IE is more expensive but its a lot better with your auto attacks (its effective crit value in terms of dps is .5 x current crit + .375 which means that IE effective has 42.5% crit on it if you buy it after Triforce). If you're buying shiv as your 4th offensive item then you're simply going to be too far behind in DPS when it comes to team fights for a completed item build. Its not slot efficient enough

BT, Triforce, LW, IE -> The Core high damage items

Shiv is much better on champions like Ashe (who can leverage her passive into guaranteed high magic damage burst while also using it to shore up her primary laning and early/mid game weaknesses (by pushing waves and more or less ending the laning phase, or if you're ahead, by abusing the move speed and slow to kite and zone the other AD)
RagequitBM
Profile Joined November 2011
Canada2270 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-03 18:22:32
June 03 2014 18:13 GMT
#1794
Kinda random, but the Jinx discussion a few pages ago made me think about it.
As an ADC main I'm really happy with bottom lane champions at the moment. Lucian is kinda really good, but not so good that it makes you hate playing the lane. All the supports are fun to play against, and with. Your damage is nowhere near S2 levels, but it's still pretty good, and you're not getting 100 - 0'd by Zeds all day. I'm really enjoying myself right now.

Also been trying to pick up other roles so that I can Solo queue and not free lose everytime I'm not ADC. And I wanted to learn 2 champions for each other role. So far I'm learning:
top: Bruiser Nid
Jungle: leesin/Kayle
Mid: Orianna
Support: Gragas

Any suggestions for a second champ in each role?
Twitch.tv/Ragequitbm for all the fans
Kupon3ss
Profile Joined May 2008
時の回廊10066 Posts
June 03 2014 18:17 GMT
#1795
hurricane jinx is the best jinx
When in doubt, just believe in yourself and press buttons
Nos-
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Canada12016 Posts
June 03 2014 18:22 GMT
#1796
On June 04 2014 03:13 RagequitBM wrote:
Kinda random, but the Jinx discussion a few pages ago made me think about it.
As an ADC main I'm really happy with bottom lane champions at the moment. Lucian is kinda really good, but not so good that it makes you hate playing the lane. All the supports are fun to play against, and with. Your damage is nowhere near S2 levels, but it's still pretty good, and you're not getting 100 - 0'd by Zeds all day. I'm really enjoying myself right now.

Lucian is totally good enough to make you hate laning against him
Bronze player stuck in platinum
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
June 03 2014 18:24 GMT
#1797
On June 04 2014 03:13 RagequitBM wrote:
Kinda random, but the Jinx discussion a few pages ago made me think about it.
As an ADC main I'm really happy with bottom lane champions at the moment. Lucian is kinda really good, but not so good that it makes you hate playing the lane. All the supports are fun to play against, and with. Your damage is nowhere near S2 levels, but it's still pretty good, and you're not getting 100 - 0'd by Zeds all day. I'm really enjoying myself right now.

Also been trying to pick up other roles so that I can Solo queue and not free lose everytime I'm not ADC. And I wanted to learn 2 champions for each other role. So far I'm learning:
top: Bruiser Nid
Jungle: leesin/Kayle
Mid: Orianna
Support: Gragas

Any suggestions for a second champ in each role?

top: renekton
jungle: elise
mid: kayle
support: thresh.
liftlift > tsm
chalice
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1945 Posts
June 03 2014 18:30 GMT
#1798
i could see going bt-shiv-lw on lucian if you were behind enough that your triforce would be way too late so you could hit your 3 item timing 1200 gold sooner.
RagequitBM
Profile Joined November 2011
Canada2270 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-03 18:35:33
June 03 2014 18:34 GMT
#1799
On June 04 2014 03:22 Nos- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 04 2014 03:13 RagequitBM wrote:
Kinda random, but the Jinx discussion a few pages ago made me think about it.
As an ADC main I'm really happy with bottom lane champions at the moment. Lucian is kinda really good, but not so good that it makes you hate playing the lane. All the supports are fun to play against, and with. Your damage is nowhere near S2 levels, but it's still pretty good, and you're not getting 100 - 0'd by Zeds all day. I'm really enjoying myself right now.

Lucian is totally good enough to make you hate laning against him

He's the new Caitlyn. I've learned it doesn't matter what ADC you pick, it will always at best be a 50/50 matchup. Your fun against Lucian in lane is directly proportional to the skill level of your support I think.

Unless you completely blow the Lucian out of the water in terms of individual skill.
Twitch.tv/Ragequitbm for all the fans
kongoline
Profile Joined February 2012
6318 Posts
June 03 2014 18:35 GMT
#1800
On June 04 2014 03:24 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 04 2014 03:13 RagequitBM wrote:
Kinda random, but the Jinx discussion a few pages ago made me think about it.
As an ADC main I'm really happy with bottom lane champions at the moment. Lucian is kinda really good, but not so good that it makes you hate playing the lane. All the supports are fun to play against, and with. Your damage is nowhere near S2 levels, but it's still pretty good, and you're not getting 100 - 0'd by Zeds all day. I'm really enjoying myself right now.

Also been trying to pick up other roles so that I can Solo queue and not free lose everytime I'm not ADC. And I wanted to learn 2 champions for each other role. So far I'm learning:
top: Bruiser Nid
Jungle: leesin/Kayle
Mid: Orianna
Support: Gragas

Any suggestions for a second champ in each role?

top: renekton
jungle: elise
mid: kayle
support: thresh.

but renekton blows for carrying games lol
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