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They "fixed" it for visual/thematic reasons, which I think I'm ok with?
It all depends upon the global ult. For "teleport" ults like TF and Panth I feel they're not as powerful, with Panth's now being the weakest as at least TF can still lock in a gold card to port, gold card then Zhonyas when everyone turns to stomp his ass. Panth doesn't get that luxury being a melee, tanky character. Riot's vision for those types (i feel) is to be the engager or front line to take all the pot shots while you get ready to find the perfect angle to engage on (or wombo combo with).
Other global ults (Ezreal, Jinx, Karthus) are fine late game as they provide an execution spell with a relatively short cast time. I'm sure there's other global ults I'm missing but they probably fall in the "damage" ult camp, not the "teleport" ult camp.
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Shouldn't this be RIP soraka patch?
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You don't play lulu for help pix shield only though, that's only a minor part, she has massively amounts of CC and utility.
Soraka has only her damage and heals. Her E silence is nice but generally leveled last for a start and doesn't compare to lulu range and CC and engage.
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On May 22 2014 11:38 Sufficiency wrote:
Shouldn't this be RIP soraka patch?
Soraka was op. They literaly broke what made pantheon so Panth. That feeling of droping so heroicaly from the atmosphere that he has a second or two to either jump or spear someone before the shockwave hits.
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On May 22 2014 11:38 Sufficiency wrote:
Shouldn't this be RIP soraka patch?
You mean RIP Pantheon, right? It's to the point that Riot is accepting refund requests for Dragonslayer Pantheon until the end of the week. People felt like they got scammed because of the unannounced nerf.
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On May 22 2014 11:07 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2014 10:58 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Neo the skin splashes in the Patch spoiler are ballsed up btw Yeah, I know. I copy/pasted the page source from the League website. I CBA'd to resize the images so it fits our forums. Sry. Show nested quote +On May 22 2014 10:59 Slayer91 wrote:
except sorakas W wasn't that imporant, a 300 heal is nothing compared to some of the huge shields people like lulu do, she was mostly a q spammer, and her Ult heal is value Why is it not important? Astral Blessing: HEAL: 70 / 120 / 170 / 220 / 270 (+ 35% AP) SALVATION - MAXIMUM HEAL: 105 / 180 / 255 / 330 / 402.3 (+ 52.15% AP) BONUS ARMOR: 50 / 65 / 80 / 95 / 110 (+15% AP) CD: 20s Help Pix!: SHIELD STRENGTH: 80 / 120 / 160 / 200 / 240 (+ 60% AP) MAGIC DAMAGE: 80 / 110 / 140 / 170 / 200 (+ 40% AP) CD: 10s I agree that Lulu's shield are better, especially in late game when there's more AP (after all, Lulu builds more AP than Soraka normally does) but the changes to the Starcall/Blessing interaction does make Blessing more competitive with Help Pix. I think the biggest problem with Soraka was that her Q spam was beyond annoying and it had to be toned down. She had her utility aspect buffed as a result. Edit: I'm not too great at mathcraft but it does seem like even though Help Pix has better AP ratio, Soraka's Astral Blessing will outscale in utility when your ally is at lower health. And that doesn't even begin to look at the bonus Armor from Blessing.
I don't think it's fair to compare shields and heals, because a shield only lasts a certain amount of time, while a heal can be used between engagements during poke wars to keep people sustained. By that metric, a shield SHOULD have more immediate effectiveness than an equivalent heal does.
Further, I think the raw stat value of the amount of armor Soraka's heal provides outstrips Lulu's shield.
Also yes, Soraka's passive pretty much makes it so it provides more HP than Lulu's shield does.
I'm looking at the Soraka changes as a nerf to solo lane Soraka, while simultaneously being a slight buff to late game support Soraka, and I think that's all kinds of awesome. Solo lane Soraka was stupid, it needed to die.
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new woad skin zzzzzz its on Quinn now, i dont like Woad skin. And all the karthus skin model are too good.
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I like the Blitzcrank change. Seems kinda dumb to have a champion whose entire role is based around one skill, but if you use that skill twice then you're out of mana.
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On May 22 2014 12:28 GolemMadness wrote:
I like the Blitzcrank change. Seems kinda dumb to have a champion whose entire role is based around one skill, but if you use that skill twice then you're out of mana.
Tbf. His skill is a game changer on a 20 sec cd.
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Pantheon Ult has now become pretty damn useless outside of Zoning people out of your circle... its so sad.
People see the Circle and they walk away from the Center and there, now Pantheon will have to have Flash to stun someone. That's too bad... hopefully they can change it slightly so that Pantheon can catch up to people, maybe after he lands he gets a movement speed buff.
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On May 22 2014 11:12 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2014 11:10 layabout wrote:
if infuse costs 50 mana on enemies then why would i ever play soraka support?
Haha, this is so true. I didn't even think about Soraka support. The Infuse change definitely kills Soraka as a support choice but maybe Riot didn't care cause Soraka wasn't a popular support to begin with?
She isn't a support champion right now. He only support feature is the sustain, which isn't uniquely good for supporting.
On May 22 2014 11:14 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2014 11:11 Kinie wrote:
@ Neo: The reason why Panth scales so poorly IMO is due to the inherent weakness of global ults in late game. I feel in the early and mid game (like level 3 - 13) he's pretty good in terms of ganks in lane phase and early objective team fights, as he can be nearby with the team then titan drop down to tank the first couple turret shots (or steal dragon) before your team collapses and kills the enemy team for the objective.
Where-as unlike lategame with the champs you named, the amount of HP most champs have is just not enough to get people low enough fast enough for his Q to get the crit on it. Elise gets % HP damage with her skill chains, Evelynn gets a shield and flat Hp dmg. with her ult, and Kha'Zix gets the jump in, kill, jump out assassination-type attacks or jump in to begin tanking and assaulting the enemy back line if you build him tanky. All Pantheon could do was ult and hope to W the enemy carry during the animation. Now he more than likely has to ult - Flash + W onto the carry and hope the enemy carry doesn't have an escape or Flash.
Yeah, I agree and realize all that, so why "fix" Pantheon when it makes things harder for him? Oh, I don't agree with globals being weak in late game. If anything, globals are better in late after lane turrets are all down.
Agree here, someone was saying this last thread as well, and it makes almost no sense. Pantheon is relatively weaker lategame because a melee single target stun isnt that great, particularly on a champ without many defensive steroids.
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Support Soraka is really fucked by the Q nerfs, even more so than a lane Soraka.
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On May 22 2014 10:49 NeoIllusions wrote:
@Kinie: I think Panth scales so poorly compared to other top tier Jungle picks like Kha'Zix, Elise, even Evelynn that I think he could use all the help he can get. It might have been a bug that he can cast stun before he lands but I think it's something that most players accepted. I'd put it up there with other bugs like Muta stacking and wave dashing. Not intended but it was actually for the better.
Are there really people that think Pantheon is better now that he's "fixed"?
Edit: xes, diaf, no more chikin for you
The changes were actually in 4.7 as a stealth nerf, originally intended by the skins department to make Dragonslater Pantheon look less derp in production. While Pantheon scales poorly, he's also has the strongest early game of all the competitive jungler.
Riot has said that they will adjust him in 4.9 if need be, since by the time they learned that these changes went through the changelist for 4.8 was already finalized.
On May 22 2014 11:15 Dusty wrote:
IMO this ult change didn't hurt pantheon as much as the previous ult change on the cast time/drop time. Panth is pretty meh now, unless you get a big early lead to just keep on running to a lane (preferably bot) and just running them down.
There was no previous changes. Before this, they cleaned up the shield block interaction with jungle monsters, and before that allowed W to hit minions and monsters back in S3.
This is why people need to keep their shit in check when Riot goes "we're thinking about changing this."
On May 22 2014 12:28 justiceknight wrote:
new woad skin zzzzzz its on Quinn now, i dont like Woad skin. And all the karthus skin model are too good.
I like the Woad line. However, this one is fucking awful. Where is Woad Diana? Rito pls.
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BRACE YOURSELVES KARTHUS MAINS ONLY MID OR FEED INCOMING WITH VU UPDATE
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QUINN SKIN?!
my angus is ready
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NP I main Katarina anyway. Karthus no problemo.
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YP has been the biggest weak point of EG all split. Glad to see them trying something else.
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Bearded Elder29904 Posts
Hohohoh this patch, damn, RIP Pantheon :\ kind of a dick move from Riot to release a DragonSlayer awesome skin and then nerf his shit :\ goddamn
I'm glad Soraka got nerfed, that was one annoying thing to deal with.
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EPT
