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On May 12 2014 15:01 KissBlade wrote:
Bly's post is pretty godlike.
Consequently, I will say, my biggest jump in improvement from the game has been the two inhouses against bly08 (once on my team and once against) where I was some silver. He gave like two-three basic advice (the only one I remember now was "you have to know how much damage your champion can do in a fight and how much they can take" in a game where I was like 3-10-4 as Diana ... ) and I got to plat level pretty much a month after.
You got better when I stopped showing up drunk late at night an demanding you play games with me.
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On May 12 2014 11:54 Zdrastochye wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2014 08:15 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Seriously most people's problem is that they think that because they're good at one role, they should be at whatever level they play that one role at.
If you can't play at least 3 roles at whatever level you think you are, you're not that level. Ideally you should play all but one or even every role. If you can't get carried on your worst 2 roles, you're not as good as you think you are. I'm a silver level everything but support, yet I'm in platinum. Does this mean my support is diamond level? I'm just wondering if the reverse is true, that by having my other roles so bad and only one role good then am I currently ranked where I am because I have the support skills of a diamond level player?
1) You aren't silver on everything else, a silver in platinum would get completely wrecked. How are you even judging how good you are? Especially because it's you who always claimed you were a bronze noob because you dodged all your promos. Why do you always act dumber than you are? Is it some kind of fear of failure? Is it to look cool? Whatever it is can you just stop?
2) I think support is the one exception, actually, because dedicated supports were the earliest specialists to get high elo. Also, nobody really fights over the support position like they do over jungle/mid/top/adc.
3) Perhaps my statement was stated wrong. It should read as follows:
"If you're lower than you think you should be and you can't play at least 3 roles at whatever level you think you should be, you're not at that level."
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On May 12 2014 16:52 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2014 15:01 KissBlade wrote:
Bly's post is pretty godlike.
Consequently, I will say, my biggest jump in improvement from the game has been the two inhouses against bly08 (once on my team and once against) where I was some silver. He gave like two-three basic advice (the only one I remember now was "you have to know how much damage your champion can do in a fight and how much they can take" in a game where I was like 3-10-4 as Diana ... ) and I got to plat level pretty much a month after. that seems like pretty basic knowledge, i cant imagine someone giving you advice and then you jumping 2 full leagues though. I could give loads of advice to a D player in BW but they're not gonna jump to C off what i told them, still have to put shit into perspective and be able to execute the things they tell you
BW and this game are completely different. The amount of mechanical difference between D and C is huge compared to the amount of mechanical difference between silver and plat. Most errors that LoL players make are straight up forgetting to engage their brains and think. A lot of people are extremely unaware of basic things and teaching them to think about it can trigger massive chain reactions.
Dan Dinh did a special once early in S1 where he basically said he was gonna give people lessons 30 mins at a time. He literally ended up cancelling the lesson and spending 30 mins teaching them that last hitting was necessary. It was called like "teach a man to fish" but it was really "teach a scrub to last hit".
People a lot of the time don't realize that dying and losing a tower is worse than just losing a tower. People don't realize that they should avoid fighting people who can kill them. People don't realize that there are power spikes and item timings and even "position" or "harass". You teach them basic concepts, they're aware of it, they figure the rest out by themselves. A lot of people don't realize intuitively many of the concepts in the game.
And yes, Kiss was one of those players. I can vouch for it.
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In all seriousness, how can you see what level you are with a specific role? I mean sometimes I own toplane although I almost never play it, but is that because my opponent is silver and I'm gold when we're both playing in a plat game or am I just that good.
Nah jk but really how do you measure that? Winrate? I feel like most people play so little that winrates aren't that reliable.
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Braum looks really strong in that champion spotlight, but those are usually deceptive.
I still can't believe he has a moving wind wall. Seriously, that's really disgusting. Can you imagine a team with Yasuo and Braum. You would have such a difficult time trying to force engages onto that team. Especially if you somehow tried to fight inside the jungle. If I am thinking of it correctly , if you put Yasuo's wind wall side to side with Braum's shield, I do believe they take up almost a mid lane equivalent of space in front of them. It might also be cool if you could make Anivia work in there in some way.
His passive also seems crazy. It needs a surprisingly little amount to proc(only four basic autoattacks or onhit), and your ally can help you with it.
I'm going to assume his early game stats/cooldowns/mana are really terror, because I don't understand how they wouldn't be with that kit.
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You can see who read about Braum's kit and who didn't.  He's generally low-damage, even if he gains some bonus on-hit magic damage on enemies on whom his passive is on cd.
His E isn't exactly a windwall because he still takes the damage himself (and if it's a skillshot he has to block it, Cho-like but with %damage reduction instead of FoN), so if he's behind I guess it's easy to bait him into getting caught or dying to poke.
He's definitely very strong against champions relying on projectiles, even melee ones, though. And if he gets ahead against a mostly ranged comp, having an initiator to let him stand in front of them could be hard to deal with.
His ult's got a delay before it casts (or rather, it has quite the wind-up animation), we'll see how significant it is to allow people to dodge it.
On May 12 2014 13:11 Celial wrote:
Regarding the "getting better" discussion:
About ten years ago I was still heavily into BW. I sucked though. Around that time I started taking driving lessons for my drivers license. And what do you know, after about 3 lessons I noticed something odd: My awareness skyrocketed.
So yeah, the "fastest" way to get better is probably to crosstrain a vital skill using a method that is way better for it than trying to improve it by grinding it out in the environment you actually want to use it with.
Something similar happened when I picked up meditating about a year ago. I find that teamfights are much clearer to me now. Within 2-3 weeks team fights wouldn't stress me out anymore, I could take a mental step back and observe the whole battle field without feeling rushed to do anything.
Just my 2 cents though.
I started Warcraft III ladder shortly before driving lessons, and a friend was teaching me a bit through replays (I was an utter scrub and never made it past level 12, I only hit D+ for a single game in BW). My micro was somewhat passable for my games (not enough to make me not curse at the blademaster "harass" one-shotting wisps and the archers' turn rate though ) but I had absolutely no macro and close to no map awareness.
Then after a lesson I noticed that the way I could tell the instructor mostly everything I did wrong afterwards was similar to how immediatly after a game or while watching a replay I could point out most of my mistakes, but not fix that during the game. Then I realised it was all about multitasking, both when driving (using the mirrors was my main issue) and playing (looking at the corners for my resources and the minimap). I improved a ton after that and working on both in parallel.
(I also remember my mother rolling her eyes, unable to believe a game could help someone develop skills applicable to real life. )
On May 12 2014 17:35 Fildun wrote:
In all seriousness, how can you see what level you are with a specific role? I mean sometimes I own toplane although I almost never play it, but is that because my opponent is silver and I'm gold when we're both playing in a plat game or am I just that good.
Nah jk but really how do you measure that? Winrate? I feel like most people play so little that winrates aren't that reliable.
My mid's clearly not at the level of the other roles, mainly because I haven't played it much (and didn't adapt well to the meta changes that buried Viktor harder than s3 did), but I know my AD to be low Silver-level because I was only doing decent in there. In Silver I I could win lane, or at least come out even, because of game sense and general assertiveness (eg. people not harassing me when I walked up to auto them as Graves, instead running away), but my last-hitting was really poor and I was utter trash in the roaming/teamfighting phases of the game, bieng unable to carry my weight there.
Now in Gold I I usually lose lane (sometimes I'm even in cs but I can clearly see my opponent missing easy last hits or not gaining a lead when they force me to back despite having a bigger wave to farm so it's them being bad too, not me doing well) and I'm invisible in teamfights. I'm far from the worst (I position better than some self-titled "ad mains" wrt my support, but not necessarily wrt the enemy duo, and even if I'm in position to follow up my execution is trash), so I know I'm somewhere Silver with that role.
I'm pretty amazed I still managed to destroy some lanes when the support was good, or win some games where I'm forced into AD, considering the > 1 tier difference, my team has to carry pretty hard.
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The only reason I stopped playing Viktor was because I reached a point where my mid was just too far below the level of my top/jungle/support, so it made more sense to start playing a safer champion like Ziggs (even though I actually got worse results with Ziggs). If I were lower elo so I could play mid more competently, I'd totally go back to the Viktor.
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Really? he seems that op? (Braum)
Passive is a very conditional delayed stun he can only apply with a non-passthrough skillshot or melee attack. It has an 8 second cd at minimum that doesn't respond to CDR.
His Q is pretty similar to lulu in damage and slow, but is single target with longer cd until level 4.
His W is a nice jump, but only moves him and gives 3 seconds of a decent AR/MR buff.
Ult is very nice but long cd and not as much a stun as it is a slow past the first target (so much weaker vs mobile champions)
Basically his whole power budget goes into his E. If it works out and he blocks all damage for 3.5 seconds while his AD can dps then he's very strong. If someone closes past him or he mispositions or his AD is locked up for this time, then he's going to provide very very little compared to another support. Significantly he brings almost zero damage to the table, and in lane without a true gapcloser he will have difficulty even applying his passive if the enemy stands behind creeps. I'm not at all sure he will be viable. He could be, could not. He has almost nonexistant damage and very little CC.
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On May 12 2014 17:35 Fildun wrote:
In all seriousness, how can you see what level you are with a specific role? I mean sometimes I own toplane although I almost never play it, but is that because my opponent is silver and I'm gold when we're both playing in a plat game or am I just that good.
Nah jk but really how do you measure that? Winrate? I feel like most people play so little that winrates aren't that reliable.
Your "true elo" is where you win and lose an equal amount of games. If you have a 50% winrate and a decent number of games, that's where you belong given your current skill. It takes into account only how good you are at winning. Mechanically and strategically you may be the greatest player to ever grace LoL but if you cause people to leave games in the first 5 minutes because you flame them, that's a part of this calculation.
Ideally, to figure something like this out, you would have a large number of games on each role, each on separate accounts...
But yeah, basically the closer you are to 50%, the closer to your actual skill bracket you are. This applies less if you're an outlier (challenger or bronze 5).
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On May 12 2014 19:40 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2014 17:35 Fildun wrote:
In all seriousness, how can you see what level you are with a specific role? I mean sometimes I own toplane although I almost never play it, but is that because my opponent is silver and I'm gold when we're both playing in a plat game or am I just that good.
Nah jk but really how do you measure that? Winrate? I feel like most people play so little that winrates aren't that reliable. Your "true elo" is where you win and lose an equal amount of games. If you have a 50% winrate and a decent number of games, that's where you belong given your current skill. It takes into account only how good you are at winning. Mechanically and strategically you may be the greatest player to ever grace LoL but if you cause people to leave games in the first 5 minutes because you flame them, that's a part of this calculation. Ideally, to figure something like this out, you would have a large number of games on each role, each on separate accounts... But yeah, basically the closer you are to 50%, the closer to your actual skill bracket you are. This applies less if you're an outlier (challenger or bronze 5).
What qualifies as a large number of roles? For my last 80 games I have 57% winrate. What does this mean? I really don't know.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
It means you can improve your true elo by dodging when you don't get your best champion
Scip taktiks since 2012 opopop
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On May 12 2014 18:39 sob3k wrote:
Really? he seems that op? (Braum)
Passive is a very conditional delayed stun he can only apply with a non-passthrough skillshot or melee attack. It has an 8 second cd at minimum that doesn't respond to CDR.
His Q is pretty similar to lulu in damage and slow, but is single target with longer cd until level 4.
His W is a nice jump, but only moves him and gives 3 seconds of a decent AR/MR buff.
Ult is very nice but long cd and not as much a stun as it is a slow past the first target (so much weaker vs mobile champions)
Basically his whole power budget goes into his E. If it works out and he blocks all damage for 3.5 seconds while his AD can dps then he's very strong. If someone closes past him or he mispositions or his AD is locked up for this time, then he's going to provide very very little compared to another support. Significantly he brings almost zero damage to the table, and in lane without a true gapcloser he will have difficulty even applying his passive if the enemy stands behind creeps. I'm not at all sure he will be viable. He could be, could not. He has almost nonexistant damage and very little CC.
If I learned anything from Feral Flare is that we should wait for at least 1 week before calling anything "not strong".
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On May 12 2014 17:03 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2014 11:54 Zdrastochye wrote:On May 12 2014 08:15 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Seriously most people's problem is that they think that because they're good at one role, they should be at whatever level they play that one role at.
If you can't play at least 3 roles at whatever level you think you are, you're not that level. Ideally you should play all but one or even every role. If you can't get carried on your worst 2 roles, you're not as good as you think you are. I'm a silver level everything but support, yet I'm in platinum. Does this mean my support is diamond level? I'm just wondering if the reverse is true, that by having my other roles so bad and only one role good then am I currently ranked where I am because I have the support skills of a diamond level player? 1) You aren't silver on everything else, a silver in platinum would get completely wrecked. How are you even judging how good you are? Especially because it's you who always claimed you were a bronze noob because you dodged all your promos. Why do you always act dumber than you are? Is it some kind of fear of failure? Is it to look cool? Whatever it is can you just stop? 2) I think support is the one exception, actually, because dedicated supports were the earliest specialists to get high elo. Also, nobody really fights over the support position like they do over jungle/mid/top/adc. 3) Perhaps my statement was stated wrong. It should read as follows: "If you're lower than you think you should be and you can't play at least 3 roles at whatever level you think you should be, you're not at that level."
lol i was about to make a psych 101 joke but then i realized you're beyond that
acting dumber than you are is a good way to drop ego artificially and thus more likelihood of being willing to self criticize
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On May 12 2014 16:52 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2014 15:01 KissBlade wrote:
Bly's post is pretty godlike.
Consequently, I will say, my biggest jump in improvement from the game has been the two inhouses against bly08 (once on my team and once against) where I was some silver. He gave like two-three basic advice (the only one I remember now was "you have to know how much damage your champion can do in a fight and how much they can take" in a game where I was like 3-10-4 as Diana ... ) and I got to plat level pretty much a month after. that seems like pretty basic knowledge, i cant imagine someone giving you advice and then you jumping 2 full leagues though. I could give loads of advice to a D player in BW but they're not gonna jump to C off what i told them, still have to put shit into perspective and be able to execute the things they tell you
You'd be surprised how many Silver players don't even know what Freezing a lane means, or how long it takes Dragon/Baron to spawn, let alone how to do it effectively. Not to mention pretty much zero people (including most SUPPORTS!) not buying wards the entire game.
I went from Silver 5 to Gold in less than a week starting from beginning of last season and most of it is just not being brain dead on decision making. You'd be surprised how retarded the decision making is in Silver/Bronze.
Now the problem I'm having in Gold is literally having 1 in 5 of my games thrown away due to people Disconnecting or AFKing, it's the worst I've ever seen and haven't had this issue until Gold MMR funny enough. So many trolls.
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Can confirm. My high gold friend does not know the timers either. He is just strong mechanically so he carries himself through strong play.
Then he drags himself down with his lack of game knowledge and the use of "genja builds", including things like PD Pantheon.
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Bearded Elder29903 Posts
On May 12 2014 21:08 Figgy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2014 16:52 arb wrote:On May 12 2014 15:01 KissBlade wrote:
Bly's post is pretty godlike.
Consequently, I will say, my biggest jump in improvement from the game has been the two inhouses against bly08 (once on my team and once against) where I was some silver. He gave like two-three basic advice (the only one I remember now was "you have to know how much damage your champion can do in a fight and how much they can take" in a game where I was like 3-10-4 as Diana ... ) and I got to plat level pretty much a month after. that seems like pretty basic knowledge, i cant imagine someone giving you advice and then you jumping 2 full leagues though. I could give loads of advice to a D player in BW but they're not gonna jump to C off what i told them, still have to put shit into perspective and be able to execute the things they tell you You'd be surprised how many Silver players don't even know what Freezing a lane means, or how long it takes Dragon/Baron to spawn, let alone how to do it effectively. Not to mention pretty much zero people (including most SUPPORTS!) not buying wards the entire game. I went from Silver 5 to Gold in less than a week starting from beginning of last season and most of it is just not being brain dead on decision making. You'd be surprised how retarded the decision making is in Silver/Bronze. Now the problem I'm having in Gold is literally having 1 in 5 of my games thrown away due to people Disconnecting or AFKing, it's the worst I've ever seen and haven't had this issue until Gold MMR funny enough. So many trolls.
I know Drake/Baron timings and I buy wards as support and I know what lane freeze is, does this makes me a real Silver player? :D
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On May 12 2014 08:15 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
"If you're lower than you think you should be and you can't play at least 3 roles at whatever level you think you should be, you're not at that level."
Lol, this statement is gold
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its at least platinum
this all depends though
for example, if you were high enough mmr before the change to pick order and when jungle was less popular because nobody farmed if you were a jungle main you got jungle basically every game and when it wasnt you were last pick and got to play support and get carried by alex ich or something
if you're someone who's best role is mid and its the most sought after role obviously you're not going to get it that much so you won't gain as many wins from it
also its based on your personal definition of level. Once you get to the pro level all that matters is how good you are at one role, but suddenly in solo queue you have to be good at 3 roles?
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
That's why this statement is so awesome
you could have Aristotle write a 5 page essay on it and it still wouldn't cover half of the silliness and wtf that that statement contains lol
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United States23745 Posts
On May 12 2014 18:39 sob3k wrote:
Really? he seems that op? (Braum)
Passive is a very conditional delayed stun he can only apply with a non-passthrough skillshot or melee attack. It has an 8 second cd at minimum that doesn't respond to CDR.
His Q is pretty similar to lulu in damage and slow, but is single target with longer cd until level 4.
His W is a nice jump, but only moves him and gives 3 seconds of a decent AR/MR buff.
Ult is very nice but long cd and not as much a stun as it is a slow past the first target (so much weaker vs mobile champions)
Basically his whole power budget goes into his E. If it works out and he blocks all damage for 3.5 seconds while his AD can dps then he's very strong. If someone closes past him or he mispositions or his AD is locked up for this time, then he's going to provide very very little compared to another support. Significantly he brings almost zero damage to the table, and in lane without a true gapcloser he will have difficulty even applying his passive if the enemy stands behind creeps. I'm not at all sure he will be viable. He could be, could not. He has almost nonexistant damage and very little CC.
His passive would be pretty shit if your allies couldn't help proc it, but since they can it seems pretty good. Even if you don't get the stun off, just tagging get the enemy and having them back away in order to avoid the stun is a win in itself.
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EPT
