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[Patch 4.6] Twitch VU General Discussion - Page 35

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Updated TL LoL policy in regards to the use of "lomo"
jaybrundage
Profile Joined December 2009
United States3921 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-24 06:59:59
April 24 2014 06:59 GMT
#681
Does anyone else have the 4.7 preview edit Forecast* not able to load properly. I am curious what they are saying but i can't load the damn thing : /
The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in battle.
chalice
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1945 Posts
April 24 2014 07:00 GMT
#682
On April 24 2014 15:44 arb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2014 14:23 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
On April 24 2014 13:46 chalice wrote:
one of the things i read that about korean teams that i thought was interesting (can't remember if it came from monte or lastshadow) is that they have coaches just for math and timings. like there is a guy whose job it is to make sure the players can quickly calculate/recall almost exactly what combination of skills and how many autos need to be landed at each champion level/skill order/itemization and enemy mr/armor to kill someone with a certain amount of hp or how long it will take a certain champion who just backed to return to lane or make it to baron with various movespeed itemizations/skill usages.

these are concrete things that can be analysed by anyone who puts in the work and they provide real advantages over opponents who are basing their all-ins and dragon attempts on intuition and feel learned from repetition and experience.

Source please this sounds a bit unrealistic.

I'd never take anything Lastshadow says as truth without another source.

You should never believe anything Lastshadow says lol. Ever.

He is a pathological liar,cheater,piece of shit not to mention offered lessons for money then ripped people off here on teamliquid. lol

Show nested quote +
On April 24 2014 15:38 chalice wrote:
On April 24 2014 14:23 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
On April 24 2014 13:46 chalice wrote:
one of the things i read that about korean teams that i thought was interesting (can't remember if it came from monte or lastshadow) is that they have coaches just for math and timings. like there is a guy whose job it is to make sure the players can quickly calculate/recall almost exactly what combination of skills and how many autos need to be landed at each champion level/skill order/itemization and enemy mr/armor to kill someone with a certain amount of hp or how long it will take a certain champion who just backed to return to lane or make it to baron with various movespeed itemizations/skill usages.

these are concrete things that can be analysed by anyone who puts in the work and they provide real advantages over opponents who are basing their all-ins and dragon attempts on intuition and feel learned from repetition and experience.

Source please this sounds a bit unrealistic.

I'd never take anything Lastshadow says as truth without another source.

i read it a fairly long time ago, really don't remember, if it was lastshadow it was in his ama on reddit.

i don't really see what is so far-fetched about it though, somehow i doubt kkoma is the only person in the skt organization doing analysis and research for both teams. creating a spreadsheet for skill and combo damage values at various itemization and level points for faker to study is something you could hire a reasonably intelligent high school kid with an interest in the game to do for like minimum wage and would give your team an information advantage over its opponents.

just because no one in the west takes the game seriously enough to make that kind of investment into preparing their players doesn't mean that teams in korea with real financial backing and coaching infrastructure don't. once you reach a certain level of mechanical skill isn't the whole game pretty much decision making based on the math of champion stats and time?

with correctly focused research, coaching, and practice i'm not sure there's any reason you can't give a mechanically gifted 15 year old kid a similar level of lane matchup or champion limitation knowledge that an elder statesmen like dyrus has been accruing naturally over years of experience. maybe this is exactly why you see new young and talented players popping up in ogn every season while the professional player pool in NA and Europe seems so stagnant.

That ama was basically a hilarious thread of him jacking his own cock and everyone feeding his ego.

i'm glad that you were able to get your feelings about lastshadow off your chest, but what does that have to do with the differences in coaching and preparation between what goes on in a korean team house and what alex penn and kenma are providing for coast and xdg?
chalice
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1945 Posts
April 24 2014 07:04 GMT
#683
On April 24 2014 15:59 jaybrundage wrote:
Does anyone else have the 4.7 preview edit Forecast* not able to load properly. I am curious what they are saying but i can't load the damn thing : /

+ Show Spoiler +
Hi guys, the Live Gameplay team is back with the Patch Forecast for 4.7. Here are the major issues we’re looking at. Keep in mind that since we just released patch 4.6, we’re still collecting data and analyzing how the latest changes we’ve done have affected prominent in-game issues.

1) Reworks Follow-up (continued)
Gragas may still have a few flaws holding him back from fully transitioning into his new role as a fighter/bruiser. Even after the recent changes in 4.6, we are still unsure if Gragas is in a good spot. Specifically, we want to ensure he can compete in the early game, and also ensure he has the ability to make big plays with his Barrel Roll and Explosive Cask. We’re looking for ways to continue buffing him as a disruptive team fighter, so look for more utility adds to his kit.
Kassadin recently received a few buffs, particularly when fighting against other magic damage dealers. We’re keeping a careful eye on Kassadin to make sure that he isn’t completely removing aspects of counterplay with his new damage/shield model. Rest assured if he gets picked in ranked games we’ll nerf him again (kidding).
Skarner is still being worked on carefully. We feel that stickiness is a significant part of his character fantasy, and that aspect is somewhat lacking, so we’re continuing to explore solutions!

2) Top Lane and the “Renekton Bar” (continued)
As Statikk stated in his last forecast (http://community.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/live-gameplay/BdiOr6zf-46-patch-forecast ), we’re continuing to look at champions that we think have interesting top lane gameplay and giving them stronger tools to survive in that environment. We feel like we’re seeing a little more diversity lately (Jax and Ryze have seen a resurgence lately), so we'll be slowing our approach, but look for Jarvan the 4th and Malphite to get a few minor adjustments to better equip them at fighting in the top lane.

3) Jungle
We continue to see Junglers taking over games. In particular, damage focused junglers frequently outlevel, outfarm, and outdamage their laning teammates without the level of risk that their counterparts are forced to endure. We are looking into to altering the total gold/experience output that the jungle can provide. Additionally, we mentioned that Spirit Stone might be weighted a little too heavily in favor of DPS-focused junglers (especially health vamp), so we're taking that into consideration with our changes.

4) Kha’zix
True to his lore, when we change Kha’zix, he evolves and finds a different gameplay pattern to continue to be effective. The live version of Kha’zix does not have the same need to be opportunistic as the other assassins in League of Legends, and opponents tend to feel like there are very few windows available to fight him. We are looking into some changes that make him a little more vulnerable to fighting back against him, particularly when he is under the effects of his ultimate.

5) Watch list

Feral Flare - The vision we had for Feral Flare does not currently reflect the reality of the item on live. While we were hoping this item would add diversity in terms of class selection in the jungle, its effect has been the opposite, as this item is almost dictating jungler picks (as in who can or cannot use Feral Flare effectively) at an extremely high rate.
League of Legends team dynamics in general lead to this item having distinctly anti-teamwork and anti-play patterns, as junglers will feel compelled to ignore their lanes for 10-15 minutes so they can farm up their stacks, while their laners will pay the price for his less team-oriented choices. While we created Feral Flare to be a more 'selfish' jungle item, its current optimal use is to be completely noninteractive on the map. The future of this item may reduce some of the combat stats it gives or reduce the value of the Maim proc at all evolutions. In exchange, we're hoping to buff teamfight-oriented stacks that contribute to the progress of Feral Flare.

Soraka – Solo lane Soraka has started to exhibit a lot of the frustrating laning patterns that Solo lane Lulu did before her recent changes (although the patterns differ mechanically). In other words, Soraka has a virtually unending supply of easy wave clear and ranged harass, while having very few windows for opponents to fight back without significant jungle help. Champions need to have clearly defined weaknesses as solo laners, or they end up bullying out a large portion of choices in that lane, and we want to do some analysis into if those currently exist for Soraka's solo lane play.
As a side note, we do think that her current rise to dominance may be due to some of the larger systems changes we've made to the game lately such as the changes to the Summoner Spell Heal. We'll have to take these into considerations as we move forward as well.

Leblanc – Similar to previous cases like Zed and Kassadin, skilled Leblanc players have the ability to snowball games while not providing a lot of counterplay for her opponents. She has very high mobility, high burst damage, consistent wave clear, and a large array of crowd control to deal with. We’re exploring finding a vision for a Leblanc that has more healthy gameplay.
On that note, we’re aware that her win rate is on the lower side compared to many problematic champions, but win rate is a data point that must be weighed in with other considerations. In this case, the pattern in which Leblanc engages champions is frustrating and significantly lacking options for the enemy player; when she is ahead in the game this is particularly debilitating for the side lanes she will roam to.

6) On the horizon
We are keeping our eyes on various champions that may become a problem, but many of them are tied into system level issues. Two of the major ones are ADC Itemization and Competitive lane swaps, and the systems team will also be doing a patch forecast soon for their take on these topics.
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
April 24 2014 07:07 GMT
#684
skill cds can be timed but damage estimation can't and must be based on intuition. In fact most decisions are necessarily intuitive.
jaybrundage
Profile Joined December 2009
United States3921 Posts
April 24 2014 07:13 GMT
#685
On April 24 2014 16:04 chalice wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2014 15:59 jaybrundage wrote:
Does anyone else have the 4.7 preview edit Forecast* not able to load properly. I am curious what they are saying but i can't load the damn thing : /

+ Show Spoiler +
Hi guys, the Live Gameplay team is back with the Patch Forecast for 4.7. Here are the major issues we’re looking at. Keep in mind that since we just released patch 4.6, we’re still collecting data and analyzing how the latest changes we’ve done have affected prominent in-game issues.

1) Reworks Follow-up (continued)
Gragas may still have a few flaws holding him back from fully transitioning into his new role as a fighter/bruiser. Even after the recent changes in 4.6, we are still unsure if Gragas is in a good spot. Specifically, we want to ensure he can compete in the early game, and also ensure he has the ability to make big plays with his Barrel Roll and Explosive Cask. We’re looking for ways to continue buffing him as a disruptive team fighter, so look for more utility adds to his kit.
Kassadin recently received a few buffs, particularly when fighting against other magic damage dealers. We’re keeping a careful eye on Kassadin to make sure that he isn’t completely removing aspects of counterplay with his new damage/shield model. Rest assured if he gets picked in ranked games we’ll nerf him again (kidding).
Skarner is still being worked on carefully. We feel that stickiness is a significant part of his character fantasy, and that aspect is somewhat lacking, so we’re continuing to explore solutions!

2) Top Lane and the “Renekton Bar” (continued)
As Statikk stated in his last forecast (http://community.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/live-gameplay/BdiOr6zf-46-patch-forecast ), we’re continuing to look at champions that we think have interesting top lane gameplay and giving them stronger tools to survive in that environment. We feel like we’re seeing a little more diversity lately (Jax and Ryze have seen a resurgence lately), so we'll be slowing our approach, but look for Jarvan the 4th and Malphite to get a few minor adjustments to better equip them at fighting in the top lane.

3) Jungle
We continue to see Junglers taking over games. In particular, damage focused junglers frequently outlevel, outfarm, and outdamage their laning teammates without the level of risk that their counterparts are forced to endure. We are looking into to altering the total gold/experience output that the jungle can provide. Additionally, we mentioned that Spirit Stone might be weighted a little too heavily in favor of DPS-focused junglers (especially health vamp), so we're taking that into consideration with our changes.

4) Kha’zix
True to his lore, when we change Kha’zix, he evolves and finds a different gameplay pattern to continue to be effective. The live version of Kha’zix does not have the same need to be opportunistic as the other assassins in League of Legends, and opponents tend to feel like there are very few windows available to fight him. We are looking into some changes that make him a little more vulnerable to fighting back against him, particularly when he is under the effects of his ultimate.

5) Watch list

Feral Flare - The vision we had for Feral Flare does not currently reflect the reality of the item on live. While we were hoping this item would add diversity in terms of class selection in the jungle, its effect has been the opposite, as this item is almost dictating jungler picks (as in who can or cannot use Feral Flare effectively) at an extremely high rate.
League of Legends team dynamics in general lead to this item having distinctly anti-teamwork and anti-play patterns, as junglers will feel compelled to ignore their lanes for 10-15 minutes so they can farm up their stacks, while their laners will pay the price for his less team-oriented choices. While we created Feral Flare to be a more 'selfish' jungle item, its current optimal use is to be completely noninteractive on the map. The future of this item may reduce some of the combat stats it gives or reduce the value of the Maim proc at all evolutions. In exchange, we're hoping to buff teamfight-oriented stacks that contribute to the progress of Feral Flare.

Soraka – Solo lane Soraka has started to exhibit a lot of the frustrating laning patterns that Solo lane Lulu did before her recent changes (although the patterns differ mechanically). In other words, Soraka has a virtually unending supply of easy wave clear and ranged harass, while having very few windows for opponents to fight back without significant jungle help. Champions need to have clearly defined weaknesses as solo laners, or they end up bullying out a large portion of choices in that lane, and we want to do some analysis into if those currently exist for Soraka's solo lane play.
As a side note, we do think that her current rise to dominance may be due to some of the larger systems changes we've made to the game lately such as the changes to the Summoner Spell Heal. We'll have to take these into considerations as we move forward as well.

Leblanc – Similar to previous cases like Zed and Kassadin, skilled Leblanc players have the ability to snowball games while not providing a lot of counterplay for her opponents. She has very high mobility, high burst damage, consistent wave clear, and a large array of crowd control to deal with. We’re exploring finding a vision for a Leblanc that has more healthy gameplay.
On that note, we’re aware that her win rate is on the lower side compared to many problematic champions, but win rate is a data point that must be weighed in with other considerations. In this case, the pattern in which Leblanc engages champions is frustrating and significantly lacking options for the enemy player; when she is ahead in the game this is particularly debilitating for the side lanes she will roam to.

6) On the horizon
We are keeping our eyes on various champions that may become a problem, but many of them are tied into system level issues. Two of the major ones are ADC Itemization and Competitive lane swaps, and the systems team will also be doing a patch forecast soon for their take on these topics.

Thanks alot <3
The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in battle.
dae
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada1600 Posts
April 24 2014 07:20 GMT
#686
On April 24 2014 15:59 jaybrundage wrote:
Does anyone else have the 4.7 preview edit Forecast* not able to load properly. I am curious what they are saying but i can't load the damn thing : /


Apparently you just have to spam F5 until it loads, don't ask me why...
Zess
Profile Joined July 2012
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
April 24 2014 07:27 GMT
#687
On April 24 2014 16:20 dae wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2014 15:59 jaybrundage wrote:
Does anyone else have the 4.7 preview edit Forecast* not able to load properly. I am curious what they are saying but i can't load the damn thing : /


Apparently you just have to spam F5 until it loads, don't ask me why...

Hahah what the fuck? I got it to work spamming F5 and here I thought it was because of weird noscript or ghostery settings.

Riot please
Administrator@TL_Zess
| (• ◡•)|八 (❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
chalice
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1945 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-24 07:34:59
April 24 2014 07:28 GMT
#688
On April 24 2014 16:07 zulu_nation8 wrote:
skill cds can be timed but damage estimation can't and must be based on intuition. In fact most decisions are necessarily intuitive.

why can't damage be estimated? isn't all the necessary information readily available in game? things might get a little fuzzy with creep aggro, but at the very least you can make your guesses a lot more educated with the right preparation.

i guess there is the issue of whether or not memorizing the information is actually more useful than just repeatedly playing specific lane matchups with a practice partner though.
Zess
Profile Joined July 2012
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
April 24 2014 07:32 GMT
#689
On April 24 2014 16:28 chalice wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2014 16:07 zulu_nation8 wrote:
skill cds can be timed but damage estimation can't and must be based on intuition. In fact most decisions are necessarily intuitive.

why can't damage be estimated? isn't all the necessary information readily available in game? things might get a little fuzzy with creep aggro, but at the very least you can make your guesses a lot more educated with the right preparation.

Because you're playing a game against people and not spreadsheets?

Do you think firefighters whip out the numerical analysis on heat equations and fluid dynamics or do they go by experience and intuition?
Administrator@TL_Zess
| (• ◡•)|八 (❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35162 Posts
April 24 2014 07:40 GMT
#690
On April 24 2014 16:27 xes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2014 16:20 dae wrote:
On April 24 2014 15:59 jaybrundage wrote:
Does anyone else have the 4.7 preview edit Forecast* not able to load properly. I am curious what they are saying but i can't load the damn thing : /


Apparently you just have to spam F5 until it loads, don't ask me why...

Hahah what the fuck? I got it to work spamming F5 and here I thought it was because of weird noscript or ghostery settings.

Riot please

Probably because it's getting hammered by being on the r/lol front page.
JazzVortical
Profile Joined July 2013
Australia1825 Posts
April 24 2014 07:51 GMT
#691
Why does there even need to be items to enable farming of the jungle? Serious question, possibly too dense to realise answer.
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35162 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-24 07:55:03
April 24 2014 07:53 GMT
#692
On April 24 2014 16:51 JazzVortical wrote:
Why does there even need to be items to enable farming of the jungle? Serious question, possibly too dense to realise answer.

Riot's big idea is a way to artificially put gold into the jungle for junglers while making it inaccessible to laners, hoping that the increased income would help appease junglers in soloq and make organized teams have the jungler take more camps for themselves as a "greater good" for increased overall team income. The jungle items is how they decided to go about doing this instead of tacking it on as an extra bonus with smite.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
April 24 2014 07:53 GMT
#693
On April 24 2014 16:51 JazzVortical wrote:
Why does there even need to be items to enable farming of the jungle? Serious question, possibly too dense to realise answer.

because they don't want laners to steal jungler farm. they don't want season 2 froggen style shit going on.
liftlift > tsm
chalice
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1945 Posts
April 24 2014 07:56 GMT
#694
On April 24 2014 16:32 xes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2014 16:28 chalice wrote:
On April 24 2014 16:07 zulu_nation8 wrote:
skill cds can be timed but damage estimation can't and must be based on intuition. In fact most decisions are necessarily intuitive.

why can't damage be estimated? isn't all the necessary information readily available in game? things might get a little fuzzy with creep aggro, but at the very least you can make your guesses a lot more educated with the right preparation.

Because you're playing a game against people and not spreadsheets?

Do you think firefighters whip out the numerical analysis on heat equations and fluid dynamics or do they go by experience and intuition?

i think that if no one on the internet ever made another analogy again the world's collective average IQ would raise by at least 1 point.

do you really need someone to explain to you why the intuition involved in champion interactions in a computer video game is much more closely related to spreadsheet calculations than the skills involved in real life firefighting are related to doing "numerical analysis on heat equations and fluid dynamics"?
krndandaman
Profile Joined August 2009
Mozambique16569 Posts
April 24 2014 07:56 GMT
#695
--- Nuked ---
GolemMadness
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada11044 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-24 08:10:07
April 24 2014 08:06 GMT
#696
On April 24 2014 15:59 jaybrundage wrote:
Does anyone else have the 4.7 preview edit Forecast* not able to load properly. I am curious what they are saying but i can't load the damn thing : /


Yeah, I had problems loading it as well. Just refreshed a bunch and eventually it worked.

My favourite part of the Lastshadow AMA was when he said he got a 2000 rating in chess in a month without taking it too seriously.
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=FLABREZU
jaybrundage
Profile Joined December 2009
United States3921 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-24 08:20:28
April 24 2014 08:18 GMT
#697
On April 24 2014 16:32 xes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2014 16:28 chalice wrote:
On April 24 2014 16:07 zulu_nation8 wrote:
skill cds can be timed but damage estimation can't and must be based on intuition. In fact most decisions are necessarily intuitive.

why can't damage be estimated? isn't all the necessary information readily available in game? things might get a little fuzzy with creep aggro, but at the very least you can make your guesses a lot more educated with the right preparation.

Because you're playing a game against people and not spreadsheets?

Do you think firefighters whip out the numerical analysis on heat equations and fluid dynamics or do they go by experience and intuition?

This is really cringe worthy. The analogy is just really bad. Also ironically firefighters do get training about the science that goes into firefighting Click
Edit Other Source I also used to be part of a fire fighting team as a deckhand on a ship

If you have any experience with Brood War. It shows the amount of knowledge of the game can be mapped out and translated into improving your gameplay. I don't believe that anyone is doubting the functionality of intuition. But having more knowledge and having of the math done for you can only help.
The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in battle.
JazzVortical
Profile Joined July 2013
Australia1825 Posts
April 24 2014 08:23 GMT
#698
On April 24 2014 16:53 Gahlo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2014 16:51 JazzVortical wrote:
Why does there even need to be items to enable farming of the jungle? Serious question, possibly too dense to realise answer.

Riot's big idea is a way to artificially put gold into the jungle for junglers while making it inaccessible to laners, hoping that the increased income would help appease junglers in soloq and make organized teams have the jungler take more camps for themselves as a "greater good" for increased overall team income. The jungle items is how they decided to go about doing this instead of tacking it on as an extra bonus with smite.

I was thinking along these lines, so it was good to hear it.

Jungler items just seem to be balance nightmares. They can't get them right. Feral Flare right now, elder lizard before that. Elder lizard was weird. Who would have thought that making an item that gives you more damage also makes you clear faster and better? Crazy right?
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35162 Posts
April 24 2014 08:25 GMT
#699
On April 24 2014 17:23 JazzVortical wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2014 16:53 Gahlo wrote:
On April 24 2014 16:51 JazzVortical wrote:
Why does there even need to be items to enable farming of the jungle? Serious question, possibly too dense to realise answer.

Riot's big idea is a way to artificially put gold into the jungle for junglers while making it inaccessible to laners, hoping that the increased income would help appease junglers in soloq and make organized teams have the jungler take more camps for themselves as a "greater good" for increased overall team income. The jungle items is how they decided to go about doing this instead of tacking it on as an extra bonus with smite.

I was thinking along these lines, so it was good to hear it.

Jungler items just seem to be balance nightmares. They can't get them right. Feral Flare right now, elder lizard before that. Elder lizard was weird. Who would have thought that making an item that gives you more damage also makes you clear faster and better? Crazy right?

It's one of those things that got concealed by the era of Golem/Locket/Bulwark jungling, unfortunately.
schmutttt
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia3856 Posts
April 24 2014 08:32 GMT
#700
On April 24 2014 16:56 krndandaman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2014 15:44 arb wrote:
On April 24 2014 14:23 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
On April 24 2014 13:46 chalice wrote:
one of the things i read that about korean teams that i thought was interesting (can't remember if it came from monte or lastshadow) is that they have coaches just for math and timings. like there is a guy whose job it is to make sure the players can quickly calculate/recall almost exactly what combination of skills and how many autos need to be landed at each champion level/skill order/itemization and enemy mr/armor to kill someone with a certain amount of hp or how long it will take a certain champion who just backed to return to lane or make it to baron with various movespeed itemizations/skill usages.

these are concrete things that can be analysed by anyone who puts in the work and they provide real advantages over opponents who are basing their all-ins and dragon attempts on intuition and feel learned from repetition and experience.

Source please this sounds a bit unrealistic.

I'd never take anything Lastshadow says as truth without another source.

You should never believe anything Lastshadow says lol. Ever.

He is a pathological liar,cheater,piece of shit not to mention offered lessons for money then ripped people off here on teamliquid. lol

On April 24 2014 15:38 chalice wrote:
On April 24 2014 14:23 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
On April 24 2014 13:46 chalice wrote:
one of the things i read that about korean teams that i thought was interesting (can't remember if it came from monte or lastshadow) is that they have coaches just for math and timings. like there is a guy whose job it is to make sure the players can quickly calculate/recall almost exactly what combination of skills and how many autos need to be landed at each champion level/skill order/itemization and enemy mr/armor to kill someone with a certain amount of hp or how long it will take a certain champion who just backed to return to lane or make it to baron with various movespeed itemizations/skill usages.

these are concrete things that can be analysed by anyone who puts in the work and they provide real advantages over opponents who are basing their all-ins and dragon attempts on intuition and feel learned from repetition and experience.

Source please this sounds a bit unrealistic.

I'd never take anything Lastshadow says as truth without another source.

i read it a fairly long time ago, really don't remember, if it was lastshadow it was in his ama on reddit.

i don't really see what is so far-fetched about it though, somehow i doubt kkoma is the only person in the skt organization doing analysis and research for both teams. creating a spreadsheet for skill and combo damage values at various itemization and level points for faker to study is something you could hire a reasonably intelligent high school kid with an interest in the game to do for like minimum wage and would give your team an information advantage over its opponents.

just because no one in the west takes the game seriously enough to make that kind of investment into preparing their players doesn't mean that teams in korea with real financial backing and coaching infrastructure don't. once you reach a certain level of mechanical skill isn't the whole game pretty much decision making based on the math of champion stats and time?

with correctly focused research, coaching, and practice i'm not sure there's any reason you can't give a mechanically gifted 15 year old kid a similar level of lane matchup or champion limitation knowledge that an elder statesmen like dyrus has been accruing naturally over years of experience. maybe this is exactly why you see new young and talented players popping up in ogn every season while the professional player pool in NA and Europe seems so stagnant.

That ama was basically a hilarious thread of him jacking his own cock and everyone feeding his ego.


he's been getting a lot of love on reddit lately.
I think he's a big farce as well though. he's definitely more knowledgeable than your average LoL player but he's definitely not some mega knowledgeable pro player he seemingly makes himself out to be (former ozone house member blah blah). he's just another mid/high diamond player to me. he definitely exaggerates a lot of stuff and tries a bit hard to look knowledgeable.


I find it hilarious how instead of just saying 'move here' he keeps saying 'direct input'.

Like really?
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