On April 23 2014 10:04 Kaneh wrote: so... is velkoz like, shit tier? I mean the only place I've ever seen him do okay is support, and even then he sucks massively against like likes of leona or annie.
he never seems to do all that much damage, like orianna levels of damage but with a fraction the utility. and if they have a dash or something to dodge your shit with you effectively do zero damage.
every velkoz I've played with is like, i was sorta WINNING LANE (even tho they'll never actually kill the opposing laner), then proceed to do absolutely nothing because he can't roam, is fragile when dived, and doesn't scale cause of atrocious ratios.
I feel Riot never intended Vel'Koz to be good. They must have known that before releasing him.
Sometimes they just want to make a quick buck without breaking the game.
On April 23 2014 10:04 Kaneh wrote: so... is velkoz like, shit tier? I mean the only place I've ever seen him do okay is support, and even then he sucks massively against like likes of leona or annie.
he never seems to do all that much damage, like orianna levels of damage but with a fraction the utility. and if they have a dash or something to dodge your shit with you effectively do zero damage.
every velkoz I've played with is like, i was sorta WINNING LANE (even tho they'll never actually kill the opposing laner), then proceed to do absolutely nothing because he can't roam, is fragile when dived, and doesn't scale cause of atrocious ratios.
I THINK i heard that Vel'koz top takes a massive dump on Renekton. I don't own Vel'koz so i can't try it out.
On April 23 2014 10:04 Kaneh wrote: so... is velkoz like, shit tier? I mean the only place I've ever seen him do okay is support, and even then he sucks massively against like likes of leona or annie.
he never seems to do all that much damage, like orianna levels of damage but with a fraction the utility. and if they have a dash or something to dodge your shit with you effectively do zero damage.
every velkoz I've played with is like, i was sorta WINNING LANE (even tho they'll never actually kill the opposing laner), then proceed to do absolutely nothing because he can't roam, is fragile when dived, and doesn't scale cause of atrocious ratios.
I feel Riot never intended Vel'Koz to be good. They must have known that before releasing him.
Sometimes they just want to make a quick buck without breaking the game.
On April 23 2014 10:05 Goumindong wrote: Gonna be harder to do that since tanky cdr items are more rare now. Most of the support items are hp only and low.
Unfortunately I don't see him viable anywhere except support. His Q scales with health, W with resist, R with AP. He has no AOE spells and no sustain. Riot really threw the kitchen sink to make sure he can't be laning or jungling.
In any case, I wish I could see his passive's cooldown, but assuming it's less than 10 seconds I think he is decent in teamfights.
His laning phase is going to suck a donkey's dick though. As far as I can tell, he is:
- melee - no sustain - no actual shield - no real gapclosers (dashing to an allied champion really isn't too useful - Q is a skillshot that only hits the first unit (can be minion, I guess?)
He will help an ADC survive a Leona lane for sure, but I really don't see him winning or even going even against anyone else.
On April 23 2014 09:43 Alaric wrote: Braum takes damage (not sure if the 40% applies to auto-attacks or all attacks?) from stuff he blocks, though. Yasuo says "nope" to Nidalee, Braum spits "nope" drowned in a modicum of blood.
The first attack is ignored, the rest are reduced. And he can recast it every 6 seconds. (assuming support level cdr)
The more important thing to keep in mind is that Braum can gapclose to friendly champions and he is more likely to stay close to his friendly squishy targets, whereas Yasuo dives in. Braum is definitely more likely to be in good position to block projectiles.
I can see this champion being very strong with strong ranged threats like Ryze, Karthus, and Cassiopeia. When you have Braum on your team protecting a Karthus I think the Karthus will be almost indestructible.
I think it's just as reliant on the enemy also having ranged threats, if you're all ranged and they're melee, then a bruiser/melee assasin jumps on karthus and literally all you can do is give karthus a bit of resists, and hope the other guy lets karthus live long enough for you to auto him 4 times with your support level attack speed.
He might almost be better in melee hard engage comps when vs pokey/ranged comps. If he has talisman, he can blow that, shield up, get a 10%ms boost and just charge straight at the enemy, absorbing all the poke skillshots they try and throw at him, then ult (or flash ult) to give his team time to catch up (and the huge aoe slow stops them running away.)
He's really starting to feel like malphite, at least in my head, he even has the slowing q :p
Just a bit more utility before the engage, (can be blocking skillshots etc slightly more relibably then malph until an opening appears) and is forced to revert to peeling after the engage, rather then being able to try and chase down a squishy.
On April 23 2014 10:04 Kaneh wrote: so... is velkoz like, shit tier? I mean the only place I've ever seen him do okay is support, and even then he sucks massively against like likes of leona or annie.
he never seems to do all that much damage, like orianna levels of damage but with a fraction the utility. and if they have a dash or something to dodge your shit with you effectively do zero damage.
every velkoz I've played with is like, i was sorta WINNING LANE (even tho they'll never actually kill the opposing laner), then proceed to do absolutely nothing because he can't roam, is fragile when dived, and doesn't scale cause of atrocious ratios.
I feel Riot never intended Vel'Koz to be good. They must have known that before releasing him.
Sometimes they just want to make a quick buck without breaking the game.
Do you ACTUALLY believe this?
Yes I do believe this. Riot released a champion based on an old mid laner / mage formula.
5 flat HP seals and 4 flat armor seals is stupid and you should not be listening to Rekkles.
Why? gif me math pls
Armor outperforms health in a lane that's largely physical base and is sustain heavy.
You need the sustain though. From a pure level 1 EHP standpoint Health is better even vs pure physical. Sustain is what makes your actual Health higher than what your actual maximum Health is.
Also, it's not inconceivable that a mix of Health and Armor could be optimal, due to multiplicative scaling.
Feast, lifesteal, health regen, Dblade onhit heal, potions.
Health is only better in an all-in scenario, and even then barely.
On April 23 2014 08:50 Alaric wrote: And you still get fucked by the Banshee's.
Actually i don't think you would be
Your Q might not apply the passive but your auto's certainly would. At which point its not a spell to block. Alternately the BV will only prevent the Q passive stack application(if it does that) and not the stun. BV won't prevent any of the damage mitigation with his e which feels like the biggest part of his kit.
In other news, I've played two games with Curse Voice and yea, definitely cheating.
Armor outperforms health in a lane that's largely physical base and is sustain heavy.
You need the sustain though. From a pure level 1 EHP standpoint Health is better even vs pure physical. Sustain is what makes your actual Health higher than what your actual maximum Health is.
Also, it's not inconceivable that a mix of Health and Armor could be optimal, due to multiplicative scaling.
Feast, lifesteal, health regen, Dblade onhit heal, potions.
Health is only better in an all-in scenario, and even then barely.
On April 23 2014 08:50 Alaric wrote: And you still get fucked by the Banshee's.
Actually i don't think you would be
Your Q might not apply the passive but your auto's certainly would. At which point its not a spell to block. Alternately the BV will only prevent the Q passive stack application(if it does that) and not the stun. BV won't prevent any of the damage mitigation with his e which feels like the biggest part of his kit.
In other news, I've played two games with Curse Voice and yea, definitely cheating.
Judging a model in a static pose outside of it's environment from and angle it isn't meant to be viewed at is foolish.
Yeah you're right - for level 4 Caitlyn vs all-physical damage it's about ~330 HP healed without getting back to full health for Armor seals to beat Health seals in lane. Although obviously it's more if there's magic damage involved but those calculations started to look too hairy.
Yeah that skin looks a bit too plain. You can't dodge the skin on the surface though - we have not seen the particles or even his actual animations yet.
On April 23 2014 10:05 Goumindong wrote: Gonna be harder to do that since tanky cdr items are more rare now. Most of the support items are hp only and low.
Unfortunately I don't see him viable anywhere except support. His Q scales with health, W with resist, R with AP. He has no AOE spells and no sustain. Riot really threw the kitchen sink to make sure he can't be laning or jungling.
In any case, I wish I could see his passive's cooldown, but assuming it's less than 10 seconds I think he is decent in teamfights.
His laning phase is going to suck a donkey's dick though. As far as I can tell, he is:
- melee - no sustain - no actual shield - no real gapclosers (dashing to an allied champion really isn't too useful - Q is a skillshot that only hits the first unit (can be minion, I guess?)
He will help an ADC survive a Leona lane for sure, but I really don't see him winning or even going even against anyone else.
I don't really see those as a problem. I think Riot should focus more on designing kits that are flexible and cool rather than saying "hey this champion is going to go into this lane and do this in these matchups"
On April 23 2014 10:05 Goumindong wrote: Gonna be harder to do that since tanky cdr items are more rare now. Most of the support items are hp only and low.
Unfortunately I don't see him viable anywhere except support. His Q scales with health, W with resist, R with AP. He has no AOE spells and no sustain. Riot really threw the kitchen sink to make sure he can't be laning or jungling.
In any case, I wish I could see his passive's cooldown, but assuming it's less than 10 seconds I think he is decent in teamfights.
His laning phase is going to suck a donkey's dick though. As far as I can tell, he is:
- melee - no sustain - no actual shield - no real gapclosers (dashing to an allied champion really isn't too useful - Q is a skillshot that only hits the first unit (can be minion, I guess?)
He will help an ADC survive a Leona lane for sure, but I really don't see him winning or even going even against anyone else.
I don't really see those as a problem. I think Riot should focus more on designing kits that are flexible and cool rather than saying "hey this champion is going to go into this lane and do this in these matchups"
It might be a problem if his laning phase is entirely passive and/or reactionary... and he gets utterly destroyed.
On April 23 2014 10:11 FinestHour wrote: rofl please released new character that isnt fotm op safe unkillable =/= character is bad
no, but seriously, when is he actually good?
i like your enthusiam for twitter sized bites, but what strengths does he have? what kind of teamcomp would he fit in where he's actually useful? which characters do as little effective damage as he does while being as immobile?
On April 23 2014 10:11 FinestHour wrote: rofl please released new character that isnt fotm op safe unkillable =/= character is bad
no, but seriously, when is he actually good?
i like your enthusiam for twitter sized bites, but what strengths does he have? what kind of teamcomp would he fit in where he's actually useful? which characters do as little effective damage as he does while being as immobile?
He has a pretty easy to land knockup, decent waveclear, and has huge potential damage with little items. Vel'koz has been played reasonably successfully in OGN as a support.
On April 23 2014 10:04 Kaneh wrote: so... is velkoz like, shit tier? I mean the only place I've ever seen him do okay is support, and even then he sucks massively against like likes of leona or annie.
he never seems to do all that much damage, like orianna levels of damage but with a fraction the utility. and if they have a dash or something to dodge your shit with you effectively do zero damage.
every velkoz I've played with is like, i was sorta WINNING LANE (even tho they'll never actually kill the opposing laner), then proceed to do absolutely nothing because he can't roam, is fragile when dived, and doesn't scale cause of atrocious ratios.
I feel Riot never intended Vel'Koz to be good. They must have known that before releasing him.
Sometimes they just want to make a quick buck without breaking the game.
lol tinfoil hat mode engaged
just because a champ isn't good immediately upon release doesnt mean they won't ever be good or riot is just greedy. If anything, a champ being overpowered on release is more likely to be a money grab than an underpowered champ.
On April 23 2014 10:11 FinestHour wrote: rofl please released new character that isnt fotm op safe unkillable =/= character is bad
no, but seriously, when is he actually good?
i like your enthusiam for twitter sized bites, but what strengths does he have? what kind of teamcomp would he fit in where he's actually useful? which characters do as little effective damage as he does while being as immobile?
He has a pretty easy to land knockup, decent waveclear, and has huge potential damage with little items. Vel'koz has been played reasonably successfully in OGN as a support.
On April 23 2014 10:04 Kaneh wrote: so... is velkoz like, shit tier? I mean the only place I've ever seen him do okay is support, and even then he sucks massively against like likes of leona or annie.
he never seems to do all that much damage, like orianna levels of damage but with a fraction the utility. and if they have a dash or something to dodge your shit with you effectively do zero damage.
every velkoz I've played with is like, i was sorta WINNING LANE (even tho they'll never actually kill the opposing laner), then proceed to do absolutely nothing because he can't roam, is fragile when dived, and doesn't scale cause of atrocious ratios.
I feel Riot never intended Vel'Koz to be good. They must have known that before releasing him.
Sometimes they just want to make a quick buck without breaking the game.
lol tinfoil hat mode engaged
just because a champ isn't good immediately upon release doesnt mean they won't ever be good or riot is just greedy. If anything, a champ being overpowered on release is more likely to be a money grab than an underpowered champ.
I am not saying they are greedy. I am just saying they want to make a quick buck... RESPONSIBLY.
Look, assume you are Morello. You manage all on-going projects regarding league of legends, whether it's new champion, new map, new VU, etc.... and your sub-coordinates give you two champion proposals for you to sign off for development:
Project 1: Yasuo Project 2: Vel'Koz
You are going to be a lot more comfortable signing off Vel'Koz than Yasuo. This is because Vel'Koz has this really bland kit constructed using this old mid laner mage formula that Riot has a lot of experience with. You can more easily predict how long development is going to take (no new technology required like Wind Wall), and how much resource the balance team is going to spend on it (straight forward kit, old formula, easy to balance). Overall, it's a low risk project with low project cost.
Yasuo is a bit different. You see that he has this weird kit that is brand new. He requires new coding (Wind Wall), which in turn requires more time on development and QA (more cost). Because of his kit is new and in a category that is somewhat new, it also requires more playtesting and balance (more cost). Overall, it's a project with high cost and possibly higher risk.
EPT
