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On March 19 2014 01:33 Dark_Chill wrote:
I recently played vs Ryze as renek. What do you start with? I started shield (I was actually expecting kennen top) but what basically happened was me trying to survive vs his mana pool (I had to back pretty early on) and engaging on him was hard because I took way more damage from continued harass and slicing and dicing got me rooted and Q'd so we traded pretty evenly in the moments when i actually could trade. Are you just supposed to play like a bitch, or what?
I don't think ryze is a problem at all. Sustain with q and build cowl/timat. Ryze top is an easier version of vlad for Rene
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On March 19 2014 04:14 Nos- wrote:
Looked at the distortion enchantment buff and it's looking incredibly strong. Longer flash, faster ghost, and mini-homeguard for teleport? Pretty bonkers.
wat?
I really hope they aren't going to make people be able to flash different distances
That's just bad for everyone, muscle memory for flash distance will be off, teammates will not estimate your flash properly, enemies wont estimate your flash properly...
It'll be like when they reduced flash's range, except all the time.
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On March 19 2014 04:44 IamPryda wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2014 01:33 Dark_Chill wrote:
I recently played vs Ryze as renek. What do you start with? I started shield (I was actually expecting kennen top) but what basically happened was me trying to survive vs his mana pool (I had to back pretty early on) and engaging on him was hard because I took way more damage from continued harass and slicing and dicing got me rooted and Q'd so we traded pretty evenly in the moments when i actually could trade. Are you just supposed to play like a bitch, or what? I don't think ryze is a problem at all. Sustain with q and build cowl/timat. Ryze top is an easier version of vlad for Rene
Root lets Ryze trade better then Vlad.
And he scales much harder then Renekton. Its not about sustaining vs him. You need to be beating him.
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Teemo's base AD is lower than melees as a ranged champion, and even lower due to the fact that he's got his E, though, he also has 500 range so against something like Cait, or an aggressive/poking support like Leona/Lulu/Annie/Sona he's not going to be much better than a Renekton.
Pretty much anyone without a dash flashes or dies in a 3v1 dive after getting zoned anyway.
Played against a Kha'Zix who evolved W at level 6. His positioning wasn't the best (still better than my cleavers, holy shit I had something like 10% accuracy during sieges T_T) and with only lizard spirit and boots he facetanked a level 3 Cleaver + RQ from Karma and lost almost no HP, that 50% DR too strong.
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On March 19 2014 04:57 Alaric wrote:
Teemo's base AD is lower than melees as a ranged champion, and even lower due to the fact that he's got his E, though, he also has 500 range so against something like Cait, or an aggressive/poking support like Leona/Lulu/Annie/Sona he's not going to be much better than a Renekton.
Pretty much anyone without a dash flashes or dies in a 3v1 dive after getting zoned anyway.
Teemo see's the enemy jungler about to dive, teemo stands still, enemy jungler/duo lane all sit and cry while teemo gets xp from all the creeps.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On March 19 2014 05:02 killerdog wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2014 04:57 Alaric wrote:
Teemo's base AD is lower than melees as a ranged champion, and even lower due to the fact that he's got his E, though, he also has 500 range so against something like Cait, or an aggressive/poking support like Leona/Lulu/Annie/Sona he's not going to be much better than a Renekton.
Pretty much anyone without a dash flashes or dies in a 3v1 dive after getting zoned anyway.
Teemo see's the enemy jungler about to dive, teemo stands still, enemy jungler/duo lane all sit and cry while teemo gets xp from all the creeps.
holy cow that's genius
I gotta try that sometime
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On March 19 2014 04:40 Alzadar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2014 04:34 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:On March 19 2014 04:31 Alzadar wrote:On March 19 2014 04:26 ghrur wrote:On March 19 2014 04:17 Requizen wrote:On March 19 2014 04:13 ghrur wrote:
You actually don't need to devote 3 people. Your jungler can come by once, kill the teemo (because god knows he can't survive a 3v1 dive), kill the tower, and you just swap back. It's also going to be hard for the teemo to build a DShield if he doesn't see the 2v1 swap coming, especially in SoloQ. Also, once again, you can swap back to bottom lane afterwards, and if your top is a FOTM champion, he'll come out much better from 1v2 than a teemo will. That's nothing specific to Teemo though, there's a myriad of other tops that can be shut down similarly. Also everyone else is right: good luck coordinating a lane swap and early game dive in yoloq Sure there is: Teemo is super squishy so easy to dive He has no good skills for CSing unlike Renekton's Q He has no inherent sustain like Nasus He has no waveclear like Shyvana So he's going to miss out on a shitload of CS and fall very far behind. He also doesn't build DShield normally unlike Renekton or Shyvana Teemo is annoying as hell. And that doesn't mean it can't be done. In fact, I've done it in... normals LOL. What is good about Renekton's Q for CSing? Errrr... it's an AoE nuke with longer range than his auto attack that happens to heal him? Combined with his E he can single combo a wave after a few levels and he has an auto attack reset with W so it's actually great for CSing... We're talking about 1v2 laning, and the quality of Renekton's Q for CSing was mentioned as a separate point from waveclear ability. Another thing with longer range than Renekton's auto attack: Teemo's auto attack.
I'd be willing to bet I would last hit in a 1v3 situation as Renekton better than you could as Teemo
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On March 19 2014 05:13 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2014 04:40 Alzadar wrote:On March 19 2014 04:34 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:On March 19 2014 04:31 Alzadar wrote:On March 19 2014 04:26 ghrur wrote:On March 19 2014 04:17 Requizen wrote:On March 19 2014 04:13 ghrur wrote:
You actually don't need to devote 3 people. Your jungler can come by once, kill the teemo (because god knows he can't survive a 3v1 dive), kill the tower, and you just swap back. It's also going to be hard for the teemo to build a DShield if he doesn't see the 2v1 swap coming, especially in SoloQ. Also, once again, you can swap back to bottom lane afterwards, and if your top is a FOTM champion, he'll come out much better from 1v2 than a teemo will. That's nothing specific to Teemo though, there's a myriad of other tops that can be shut down similarly. Also everyone else is right: good luck coordinating a lane swap and early game dive in yoloq Sure there is: Teemo is super squishy so easy to dive He has no good skills for CSing unlike Renekton's Q He has no inherent sustain like Nasus He has no waveclear like Shyvana So he's going to miss out on a shitload of CS and fall very far behind. He also doesn't build DShield normally unlike Renekton or Shyvana Teemo is annoying as hell. And that doesn't mean it can't be done. In fact, I've done it in... normals LOL. What is good about Renekton's Q for CSing? Errrr... it's an AoE nuke with longer range than his auto attack that happens to heal him? Combined with his E he can single combo a wave after a few levels and he has an auto attack reset with W so it's actually great for CSing... We're talking about 1v2 laning, and the quality of Renekton's Q for CSing was mentioned as a separate point from waveclear ability. Another thing with longer range than Renekton's auto attack: Teemo's auto attack. I'd be willing to bet I would last hit in a 1v3 situation as Renekton better than you could as Teemo
Actually, if they take as many ressources as 3 players to buttfuck you, you're pretty much dead. But yeah "just put HALF THE FUCKING TEAM against him" is like the most retarded advice I ever heard.
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Baa?21244 Posts
It's TL's preferred advice though, often paired with the weak early game card.
"Guys Morde is OP."
"It's OK he's weak early, just gank him with the jungler and shut him down early, and the bot lane can help too, and he's useless."
"Guys Kass is OP."
"Kass is also weak early, if you put 4 people in his lane he can't really do much so he's only good at pub stomping."
"Guys Vlad is OP."
"Weak early game, just harass him before he's level 9. Oh if you can gank him early with 5 people that really helps too. Confirmed unviable."
etc.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
Junglers are like duct tape, they will resolve literally everything. If something is amiss the answer is always the jungler, now what was the question.
Getting dunked by the darius? JUNGLER. Their draven has cashed in three stacks and is yoloing around with his BT while your ADC has two dblades and boots? JUNGLER. Mordekaiser es numero uno all over your mid and will instantly kill him? You bet your ass the jungler.
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the question is, mid or feed?
poop now you edited and I look less clever.
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On March 19 2014 05:21 Fusilero wrote:
Junglers are like duct tape, they will resolve literally everything. If something is amiss the answer is always the jungler, now what was the question.
Getting dunked by the darius? JUNGLER. Their draven has cashed in three stacks and is yoloing around with his BT while your ADC has two dblades and boots? JUNGLER. Mordekaiser es numero uno all over your mid and will instantly kill him? You bet your ass the jungler.
what were we even talking about? Teemo vs renekton in a 1v2 lane?
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11589 Posts
Well, to be fair, those three do have weak early games and are weak to lane pressure. Just like in DOTA, sometimes it's worth it to use 2-3 champions to shut one down on the enemy team, especially if that one scales as strongly as former Kass/Vlad/Morde does.
Renekton is a different story. Advice against him is usually "play safe and farm until you outscale him". If you want to shut him down early, though, he's actually useless as hell because he's balanced around being ahead in the early game. If he's denied early, he has to go full tank to not instantly die every fight and thus will do negative amounts of damage.
EDIT: was @ CSheep
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On March 19 2014 05:21 Fusilero wrote:
Junglers are like duct tape, they will resolve literally everything. If something is amiss the answer is always the jungler, now what was the question.
Getting dunked by the darius? JUNGLER. Their draven has cashed in three stacks and is yoloing around with his BT while your ADC has two dblades and boots? JUNGLER. Mordekaiser es numero uno all over your mid and will instantly kill him? You bet your ass the jungler.
The ultimate solution is to run 3 weak laners that need junglers to kill um. Jungle can only gank 1 lane.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
On March 19 2014 05:24 phyvo wrote:
the question is, mid or feed?
poop now you edited and I look less clever.
The answer is jungle son
On March 19 2014 05:25 Nos- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2014 05:21 Fusilero wrote:
Junglers are like duct tape, they will resolve literally everything. If something is amiss the answer is always the jungler, now what was the question.
Getting dunked by the darius? JUNGLER. Their draven has cashed in three stacks and is yoloing around with his BT while your ADC has two dblades and boots? JUNGLER. Mordekaiser es numero uno all over your mid and will instantly kill him? You bet your ass the jungler. what were we even talking about? Teemo vs renekton in a 1v2 lane?
Something about 2v1ing teeto comparative the renekton assuming jungle 3v1 dives I think.
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On March 19 2014 05:14 mr_tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2014 05:13 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:On March 19 2014 04:40 Alzadar wrote:On March 19 2014 04:34 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:On March 19 2014 04:31 Alzadar wrote:On March 19 2014 04:26 ghrur wrote:On March 19 2014 04:17 Requizen wrote:On March 19 2014 04:13 ghrur wrote:
You actually don't need to devote 3 people. Your jungler can come by once, kill the teemo (because god knows he can't survive a 3v1 dive), kill the tower, and you just swap back. It's also going to be hard for the teemo to build a DShield if he doesn't see the 2v1 swap coming, especially in SoloQ. Also, once again, you can swap back to bottom lane afterwards, and if your top is a FOTM champion, he'll come out much better from 1v2 than a teemo will. That's nothing specific to Teemo though, there's a myriad of other tops that can be shut down similarly. Also everyone else is right: good luck coordinating a lane swap and early game dive in yoloq Sure there is: Teemo is super squishy so easy to dive He has no good skills for CSing unlike Renekton's Q He has no inherent sustain like Nasus He has no waveclear like Shyvana So he's going to miss out on a shitload of CS and fall very far behind. He also doesn't build DShield normally unlike Renekton or Shyvana Teemo is annoying as hell. And that doesn't mean it can't be done. In fact, I've done it in... normals LOL. What is good about Renekton's Q for CSing? Errrr... it's an AoE nuke with longer range than his auto attack that happens to heal him? Combined with his E he can single combo a wave after a few levels and he has an auto attack reset with W so it's actually great for CSing... We're talking about 1v2 laning, and the quality of Renekton's Q for CSing was mentioned as a separate point from waveclear ability. Another thing with longer range than Renekton's auto attack: Teemo's auto attack. I'd be willing to bet I would last hit in a 1v3 situation as Renekton better than you could as Teemo Actually, if they take as many ressources as 3 players to buttfuck you, you're pretty much dead. But yeah "just put HALF THE FUCKING TEAM against him" is like the most retarded advice I ever heard.
Sorry, that shoulda read 1v2, but yeah, my point is that Teemo has a horrid lane vs anything that's not 1v1 while Renekton happens to be the go-to top laner for a reason
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On March 19 2014 05:25 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2014 05:21 Fusilero wrote:
Junglers are like duct tape, they will resolve literally everything. If something is amiss the answer is always the jungler, now what was the question.
Getting dunked by the darius? JUNGLER. Their draven has cashed in three stacks and is yoloing around with his BT while your ADC has two dblades and boots? JUNGLER. Mordekaiser es numero uno all over your mid and will instantly kill him? You bet your ass the jungler. The ultimate solution is to run 3 weak laners that need junglers to kill um. Jungle can only gank 1 lane.
If every lane is a hypercarry, you'll eventually get to unbeatable late game in one place or another.
IT'S
BRILLIANT.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
On March 19 2014 05:29 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2014 05:25 wei2coolman wrote:On March 19 2014 05:21 Fusilero wrote:
Junglers are like duct tape, they will resolve literally everything. If something is amiss the answer is always the jungler, now what was the question.
Getting dunked by the darius? JUNGLER. Their draven has cashed in three stacks and is yoloing around with his BT while your ADC has two dblades and boots? JUNGLER. Mordekaiser es numero uno all over your mid and will instantly kill him? You bet your ass the jungler. The ultimate solution is to run 3 weak laners that need junglers to kill um. Jungle can only gank 1 lane. If every lane is a hypercarry, you'll eventually get to unbeatable late game in one place or another. IT'S BRILLIANT.
The comp shall be nasus top, yi jungle, mordekaiser mid, vayne ADC and vladimir support.
SOMEONE IS REACHING THE LATEGAME.
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On March 19 2014 05:30 Fusilero wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2014 05:29 Requizen wrote:On March 19 2014 05:25 wei2coolman wrote:On March 19 2014 05:21 Fusilero wrote:
Junglers are like duct tape, they will resolve literally everything. If something is amiss the answer is always the jungler, now what was the question.
Getting dunked by the darius? JUNGLER. Their draven has cashed in three stacks and is yoloing around with his BT while your ADC has two dblades and boots? JUNGLER. Mordekaiser es numero uno all over your mid and will instantly kill him? You bet your ass the jungler. The ultimate solution is to run 3 weak laners that need junglers to kill um. Jungle can only gank 1 lane. If every lane is a hypercarry, you'll eventually get to unbeatable late game in one place or another. IT'S BRILLIANT. The comp shall be nasus top, yi jungle, mordekaiser mid, vayne ADC and vladimir support. SOMEONE IS REACHING THE LATEGAME.
And the post award for comment to make me snort coffee trying not to laugh out loud goes to this guy. Good job.
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On March 19 2014 05:29 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2014 05:25 wei2coolman wrote:On March 19 2014 05:21 Fusilero wrote:
Junglers are like duct tape, they will resolve literally everything. If something is amiss the answer is always the jungler, now what was the question.
Getting dunked by the darius? JUNGLER. Their draven has cashed in three stacks and is yoloing around with his BT while your ADC has two dblades and boots? JUNGLER. Mordekaiser es numero uno all over your mid and will instantly kill him? You bet your ass the jungler. The ultimate solution is to run 3 weak laners that need junglers to kill um. Jungle can only gank 1 lane. If every lane is a hypercarry, you'll eventually get to unbeatable late game in one place or another. IT'S BRILLIANT.
Monte-senpai ain't got shit on me.
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EPT
