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On March 18 2014 07:11 wei2coolman wrote:
Was lichbane actually problematic? Especially after kayle nerfs? Only champ that used it religiously in pro play right now was lulu, wouldn't it be easier to nerf lulu instead?
have u played vs 6item kayle? shes still as retarded as before the Q nerf didnt change shit, its a ranged tryndamere with AOE
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On March 18 2014 07:57 kongoline wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 07:11 wei2coolman wrote:
Was lichbane actually problematic? Especially after kayle nerfs? Only champ that used it religiously in pro play right now was lulu, wouldn't it be easier to nerf lulu instead? have u played vs 6item kayle? shes still as retarded as before the Q nerf didnt change shit, its a ranged tryndamere with AOE
She's actually way better than tryndamere, because most of the time Trynda ult won't make you win a teamfight by itself. A well timed Kayle ult is without a double the strongest spell in the game.
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On March 18 2014 07:56 mr_tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 07:52 Diamond wrote:On March 18 2014 07:51 Sufficiency wrote:That's reddit for ya. I gave you a free upvote for support though. Thanks! Looks like it's turning now, maybe it was downvote bots or something idk. Reddit is only accurate on the total score, not the up + downvote. Dunno why, but that's how it works. You might also have had downvotes for mentioning it as a bug when it is more like a feature.
I know about that, never kicks in that fast in my experience, but whatever it's all good now.
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On March 18 2014 07:59 mr_tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 07:57 kongoline wrote:On March 18 2014 07:11 wei2coolman wrote:
Was lichbane actually problematic? Especially after kayle nerfs? Only champ that used it religiously in pro play right now was lulu, wouldn't it be easier to nerf lulu instead? have u played vs 6item kayle? shes still as retarded as before the Q nerf didnt change shit, its a ranged tryndamere with AOE She's actually way better than tryndamere, because most of the time Trynda ult won't make you win a teamfight by itself. A well timed Kayle ult is without a double the strongest spell in the game.
Diplomatic Immunity.
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I just had Poppy in an ARAM 15 minutes ago and I was actually affected by not-my-target's-cc (namely Leona's Q and Heimerdinger's slows, I think Xin's E slow too but I'm not sure on that one) so actually... ._. She's like Nasus if some bug lets you cc her during her ult.
Not that I mind from a soloQ PoV, obv., we're talking about Poppy. Just annoyed at being confronted with what's likely a bug.
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On March 18 2014 07:35 -Zoda- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 07:26 Sufficiency wrote:
I don't think the Lich Bane nerf will fundamentally change AP Lulu. She will still be very strong. Strong yeah, but no longer redonculous damages with 3 itemz one can hope.
But I feel that Riot targetted Lich Bane to nerf Lulu... but Lich Bane isn't really what's making AP Lulu strong.
Think AP Janna - she can do 0 damage to the other team and still be ridiculously strong. When you have that much utility you honestly do not need a lot of damage, either as AP Janna or AP Lulu.
AP Janna is weak because she simply can't survive the laning phase due to her weak lane presence and weak waveclear (due to a combination of bad damage on Q even fully charged, low attack range, and mana cost), which Lulu clearly does not have issues with. Utility wise, I'd say Janna and Lulu are roughly comparable when built with high AP.
So, I think Riot should have either nerfed Lulu's utility AP ratio (mostly her W's), or her laning phase (making her Q do reduced damage vs minions, shift her Q's power to E, and/or reduce her attack speed). One of those two will do the trick.
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The particulars aside, does no one remember how stupid Fizz+lichbane was? There's a pretty common theme a lot of the time there.
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lulu's combined nuke combo is .9 without lich bane, I'm not saying lulu will be trash tier but at least your team actually takes a hit in damage for running it as opposed to now, where her popular build can proc lich bane every 4 sec
mainly we've seen 3 champions in the last 6 months reach first pick first ban on the back of Lich bane, and every time one has gotten nerfed the next best Lich user has stepped up in their place (giving TF a pass since his ult is the bigger reason he was strong)
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Honestly a lot of people ran athene/raba on lulu and it was still pretty decent.I really don't think it matters that much.People overrate number changes a lot in this game tbh.
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On March 18 2014 08:12 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 07:35 -Zoda- wrote:On March 18 2014 07:26 Sufficiency wrote:
I don't think the Lich Bane nerf will fundamentally change AP Lulu. She will still be very strong. Strong yeah, but no longer redonculous damages with 3 itemz one can hope. But I feel that Riot targetted Lich Bane to nerf Lulu... but Lich Bane isn't really what's making AP Lulu strong. Think AP Janna - she can do 0 damage to the other team and still be ridiculously strong. When you have that much utility you honestly do not need a lot of damage, either as AP Janna or AP Lulu. AP Janna is weak because she simply can't survive the laning phase due to her weak lane presence and weak waveclear (due to a combination of bad damage on Q even fully charged, low attack range, and mana cost), which Lulu clearly does not have issues with. Utility wise, I'd say Janna and Lulu are roughly comparable when built with high AP. So, I think Riot should have either nerfed Lulu's utility AP ratio (mostly her W's), or her laning phase (making her Q do reduced damage vs minions, shift her Q's power to E, and/or reduce her attack speed). One of those two will do the trick.
Your ignoring the possibility that Riot is finally comfortable letting utility supports get lane farm (like they always should have been), and just want there to be a damage-for-utility tradeoff.
If I were being optimistic I would say this means we might be seeing buffs to other supports to let them go into solo lanes. But I think they just realized that they hate balancing autoattacks.
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AD ratio on lich bane, secret buff to muramana syndra?
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On March 18 2014 08:26 nafta wrote:
Honestly a lot of people ran athene/raba on lulu and it was still pretty decent.I really don't think it matters that much.People overrate number changes a lot in this game tbh.
at a time in the game where base damage is still good damage, late game, no Lich will hurt her damage, so instead of we get an ap mid that can give someone an instant 2k effective health AND do non-terrible damage there just is no tradeoff for not picking Lulu, like .5 is without a doubt still playable, but now something like Gragas can actually out damage her in an elongated fight.
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On March 18 2014 08:23 Slusher wrote:
lulu's combined nuke combo is .9 without lich bane, I'm not saying lulu will be trash tier but at least your team actually takes a hit in damage for running it as opposed to now, where her popular build can proc lich bane every 4 sec
mainly we've seen 3 champions in the last 6 months reach first pick first ban on the back of Lich bane, and every time one has gotten nerfed the next best Lich user has stepped up in their place (giving TF a pass since his ult is the bigger reason he was strong)
Remind me which 3 champs?
Kayle and lulu are the only one I can recall.
And kayle is not really an issue right now... so not sure why modern lichbane nerf. Sounds more like lulu needs changing and less so lichbane.
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On March 18 2014 08:29 TheHumanSensation wrote:
AD ratio on lich bane, secret buff to muramana syndra?
it's base ad, like a sheen, upgrading used to remove it.
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On March 18 2014 08:31 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 08:23 Slusher wrote:
lulu's combined nuke combo is .9 without lich bane, I'm not saying lulu will be trash tier but at least your team actually takes a hit in damage for running it as opposed to now, where her popular build can proc lich bane every 4 sec
mainly we've seen 3 champions in the last 6 months reach first pick first ban on the back of Lich bane, and every time one has gotten nerfed the next best Lich user has stepped up in their place (giving TF a pass since his ult is the bigger reason he was strong) Remind me which 3 champs? Kayle and lulu are the only one I can recall.
Fizz
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On March 18 2014 08:22 Haiq343 wrote:
The particulars aside, does no one remember how stupid Fizz+lichbane was? There's a pretty common theme a lot of the time there.
champions with lots of utility or mobility cause problems when typically you can't be defensive without going all into it?
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i CANNOT wait to bust out the diana in every role again. especially jungle diana, she just got such a massive buff. lichbane was soooo mediocre on her, thx for the free elo, rito, pls no nerferino
also i had no idea about the bug with her ult giving passive stacks. i don't think that's how it's supposed to be. i think the "ideal" way she's supposed to be played is hover on 2 stacks of passive before unleashing her combo and getting the passive proc. at least that's how i was always lead to think and how i've always played her
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I guess wu and panth will be nerfed next patch In riots nerf all junglers startegy. God forbid someone Carries the game from the jungle
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Baa?21248 Posts
On March 18 2014 08:23 Slusher wrote:
mainly we've seen 3 champions in the last 6 months reach first pick first ban on the back of Lich bane, and every time one has gotten nerfed the next best Lich user has stepped up in their place (giving TF a pass since his ult is the bigger reason he was strong)
Yeah no you're wrong lol.
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On March 18 2014 08:39 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 08:23 Slusher wrote:
mainly we've seen 3 champions in the last 6 months reach first pick first ban on the back of Lich bane, and every time one has gotten nerfed the next best Lich user has stepped up in their place (giving TF a pass since his ult is the bigger reason he was strong) Yeah no you're wrong lol.
elaborate?
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EPT
