EPT[Patch 4.3] Vel'Koz General Discussion - Page 47
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drkcid
Spain196 Posts
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
yooooooooooooooooooooo | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On March 04 2014 19:38 drkcid wrote: I think that some supports need better AP ratios on their skills, ie: you need a ton of AP on Nami, more than 200 to be useful with speed boost, slow and heal, and if you get 200 AP you will be squishy. Yes you can land a Q or a good ult, but at the end people will relly on safe picks like Leona (tanky) or Annie (better AP ratios + ult). They gut AP ratios on supports so people don't use them in non-support roles | ||
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Prog
United Kingdom1470 Posts
All the fotm supports are resilient. They are tanky themselves, have defensive steriods, hard cc on low cd or movement spells. Those things make them just less exploitable when doing small mistakes, whereas Ashe will die every single time you missposition or did not have the perfect vision/awareness. Support Ashe is just too unforgiving. The current rising of Morgana supports has more to do with jungle picks than support picks i think. Most supports do okay vs Morgana, but she just counters the single target engages from Vi or Elise better than anyone else. Against teamfight junglers like Amumu or Sejuani Morgana is kinda useless. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On March 04 2014 19:51 Numy wrote: They gut AP ratios on supports so people don't use them in non-support roles Yeah this is the whole reason behind it. I remember scarra said on stream that Riot tried really hard to make sure Nami is not a viable mid laner. I think it is fairly clear that with some ratio tuning, especially on her W, will make her a pretty strong one with W poke followed by EQ for more damage or disengage. | ||
739
Bearded Elder29904 Posts
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Yezzus
United States2318 Posts
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Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Because he can use his ult as an execution, he also has an advantage over champions like Renekton, Jax, etc. who have to use theirs at the start of a trade/fight (and basically all-in), while Darius always have the option of following up or not on his stacks. He's got excellent base stats (one of the highest armour in the game, esp. at level 1). Unless you're fighting an ever bigger dick, like release-Elise or maybe Yorick, you should win just because you'll win all trades and most all-ins while building full tank, and harassing ranged champions are generally squishies so a positional mistake will result in a pull and probably death (see: Teemo living on the edge in this match-up). Actually I wonder how Vlad and Trundle do against him... | ||
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Vanka
China1336 Posts
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Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
Trundle is probably a match up where 1v1 like most darius match ups trundle will have to hang on the edge scraping for CS but since trundle has strong gank assist he can call his jungler up and trundle will probably dunk darius in the end. | ||
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
On March 04 2014 21:41 Sufficiency wrote: Yeah this is the whole reason behind it. I remember scarra said on stream that Riot tried really hard to make sure Nami is not a viable mid laner. I think it is fairly clear that with some ratio tuning, especially on her W, will make her a pretty strong one with W poke followed by EQ for more damage or disengage. But as we've seen it almost doesn't matter whether you've got good damage ratios. As long as you have *some* way to scale with gold you can end up in a priority lane. Utility is a different kind of value you get from farm but no one's been laughing at Lulu's vroom vroom lately and the extra speed helps her roam a great deal. It's actually pretty hilarious how Riot tried to shoehorn supports into building AP for ages, despite their gutted ratios, and now that they added more scaling ratios that just made the only utility scaling support in the LCS go midlane to get more farm. AP Nami already has strong sustain with W (not quite as good as Nid, but second best), a strong nuke in W (the percent bounce scaling makes a big difference), and pretty decent scaling on passive and E slow. I don't think she will immediately show up mid (her waveclear isn't as good, and wild growth is a SICK save button compared to Nami R) but IMO she's the next (utility scaling) support to go mid, in line after Lulu, until Soraka gets reworked (I think soraka got nerfed too much to be ahead of Nami right now, she lost far more than she gained in the utility scaling patch). Overall though I've always thought Riot's stance on SUPPORTS NEVER GO MIDLANE was silly. Mid laners have shown up as supports for ages and they get slowly nerfed like everyone else, meanwhile the instant supports show up midlane nerfs have been deserved but they get completely hammered or Riot finally figures out that they should nerf lich bane. | ||
GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On March 04 2014 18:27 arb wrote: The AS nerf hit him the hardest since its impossible to have 100% uptime on his E now. Hes still terror with blitz or cow though. Go go Runaan's Hurricane! | ||
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On March 04 2014 15:36 Gahlo wrote: According to that site, an NA bronze account is the 4th best Ori in the world. Dude, that guy's profile page is fascinating...27-1 with Orianna with a KDA of 21-1-8, and then a game on Janna where he goes 3-17-1 building Lich Bane. | ||
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Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
On March 05 2014 00:07 GrandInquisitor wrote: Dude, that guy's profile page is fascinating...27-1 with Orianna with a KDA of 21-1-8, and then a game on Janna where he goes 3-17-1 building Lich Bane. Maybe he's just really, really limited | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On March 05 2014 00:07 GrandInquisitor wrote: Dude, that guy's profile page is fascinating...27-1 with Orianna with a KDA of 21-1-8, and then a game on Janna where he goes 3-17-1 building Lich Bane. People like that I wonder if you just plucked them out of Bronze and put them on a Diamond account how they'd do. | ||
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Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
On March 05 2014 00:09 Ketara wrote: People like that I wonder if you just plucked them out of Bronze and put them on a Diamond account how they'd do. From what I can tell from his page as long as he doesn't play AP janna it'll go fine. Speaking of AP janna, has anyone played her in S4? I loved playing AP janna in S3 but haven't really had the chance to try her now. | ||
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On March 04 2014 17:20 silencefc wrote: Support Ashe would be decent if Leona/Annie didn't completely shit on her. Is ranged support dominating? LCS is full of Leona/Alistar/Thresh/Annie. Haven't seen Sona/Nami/Zyra/Support Lulu in a bit. Haven't seen support Elise in forever. I'm like 90% sure LCS hasn't played on the patch with the new Spelltheif's Edge so that makes quite a difference. | ||
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Ballsdeep or afk
Great Britain31 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On March 04 2014 21:27 Prog wrote: Support Ashe is just too squishy and immobile. You will get picked a lot mid-/lategame without anything you can do against it. Maybe you can escape once with your ult, but you don't want to use that for that purpose anyway. Your slow won't help you against all the gap-closers. All the fotm supports are resilient. They are tanky themselves, have defensive steriods, hard cc on low cd or movement spells. Those things make them just less exploitable when doing small mistakes, whereas Ashe will die every single time you missposition or did not have the perfect vision/awareness. Support Ashe is just too unforgiving. The current rising of Morgana supports has more to do with jungle picks than support picks i think. Most supports do okay vs Morgana, but she just counters the single target engages from Vi or Elise better than anyone else. Against teamfight junglers like Amumu or Sejuani Morgana is kinda useless. Ashe's poke is the problem IMO. You cant control the lane. If you were Ashe + Cait/Jinx and were fastpushing, it actually accomplishes that very well (once you hit lvl 2 with either of those you have great disengage for lane as well). But you make it hard for your laner to cs a lot of the time, and there is a problem lategame that you dont have with a champion like Zyra, Leona, etc to do what you need. Ashe's strength is that she has the most utility of AD Ranged Carries. But an Ashe without damage items is not strong compared to an actual support in terms of utility. Her disengage for the team is worse than Leona, Zyra, Karma, Janna, or Nami; and her engage is basically a Leona Ult, Annie ult, etc without the ability to follow up, because Ashe dies in melle range on accident. Ashe support fundamentally misunderstands why Ashe ADC is useful. Its like Gragas, Orianna, Lux, Kayle, etc at support, which fundamentally misunderstands the strength of those champions, which is providing utility alongside damage. Now, the new FF might change the ability of supports to bring damage, but there isn't even an AD upgrade for it now, so you aren't even going to get moderate scaling for your Ashe support. | ||
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