• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 12:50
CEST 18:50
KST 01:50
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 298Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
[IPSL] Spring 2026 Grand Finals - This Weekend!0Weekly Cups (July 6 - 12): Protoss strike back3BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion7BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion7Weekly Cups (June 29-July 5): Solar Doubles0
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (July 6 - 12): Protoss strike back Is the larve respawn broken? Serral wins HomeStory Cup 29 Serral wins Maestros of the Game 2 Reynor: GSL Loss Wasn't About Preparation Format
Tourneys
GSL CK #5 Race War WardiTV Summer Cup 2026 RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event HomeStory Cup 29 Vespene Cup #1 — $300+ USD, July 10
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 534 Burning Evacuation Mutation # 533 Die Together Mutation # 532 Nuclear Family
Brood War
General
Pros Debate: Zerg Unfairly Nerfed? (ASL S22 map) BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ screpdb: new Starcraft reporting tool ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool ASL22 General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [IPSL] Spring 2026 Grand Finals - This Weekend! [ASL22] Wildcard Qualifier IPSL Spring 2026 Top 4!
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Summer Games Done Quick 2026!
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Power Rank Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Tennis[sport] Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Experiences We Want and …
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 4735 users

[Patch 4.3] Vel'Koz General Discussion - Page 117

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 115 116 117 118 119 133 Next
EU LCS Week 8 Review
Ballsdeep or afk
Profile Joined November 2013
Great Britain31 Posts
March 15 2014 00:14 GMT
#2321
Got to my promos, just had the worst team ever like 1-12 toplane 4-21 botlane 4-7 jungle, i went 10-5 after draven started 1 shotting me but finally riot gods gave me a lifeline loss prevented huehue.

User was warned for this post
silencefc
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States875 Posts
March 15 2014 01:18 GMT
#2322
On March 15 2014 09:14 Ballsdeep or afk wrote:
Got to my promos, just had the worst team ever like 1-12 toplane 4-21 botlane 4-7 jungle, i went 10-5 after draven started 1 shotting me but finally riot gods gave me a lifeline loss prevented huehue.

User was warned for this post


I feel sorry for this guy. The post history in this thread would also give me the impression that these kind of posts are okay.
Slice like a goddamn hammer.
Yezzus
Profile Blog Joined January 2014
United States2318 Posts
March 15 2014 01:21 GMT
#2323
6 posts tho
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35173 Posts
March 15 2014 01:22 GMT
#2324
He lurks a shit ton though. I ran into him in soloq a long time ago and he recognized me from here.
FinestHour
Profile Joined August 2010
United States18466 Posts
March 15 2014 01:28 GMT
#2325
did he go balls deep in your game or did he afk instead
thug life.                                                       MVP/ex-
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35173 Posts
March 15 2014 01:30 GMT
#2326
Don't recall.
InfSunday
Profile Joined March 2013
United States735 Posts
March 15 2014 01:40 GMT
#2327
He was on my TL Noobleague team. Can't remember if he was good or not though.
Call me Sunday
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
March 15 2014 02:08 GMT
#2328
On March 15 2014 08:48 Gahlo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 15 2014 08:21 cLutZ wrote:
On March 15 2014 08:01 dae wrote:
On March 15 2014 07:41 cLutZ wrote:
On March 15 2014 07:34 dae wrote:
On March 15 2014 06:51 cLutZ wrote:
On March 15 2014 04:20 TheYango wrote:
The original BVeil passive was fine.


It really doesn't matter what the passive is. The purpose of the current BV passive, or any passive that is Banshees-Veil-Like is to have a mid-lategame itemization option that punishes mages that rely on 1-2 damage spells or 1-2 CC spells (often combined like Gragas or Annie). BV is supposed to make those champions weaker no matter the changes to the passive. The fact that it does, and is being bought a lot to do that is a commentary on that type of champion rather than the item itself.


The reason why everyone gets a BV lategame has not much to do with countering 1 champion, its to make it almost impossible to catch you in an engage.

Right now its like, pop the bvs, then try to get an engage in the 20 seconds they are down, if you fail try again.

Without BV in the game you'd see a lot less sustained boring sieges without either team engaging.

Honestly BV should only block the spells damage and nothing else.


That is just an indication that picks are also too strong in the meta.


When the game turns into which team can pop the other team's BV's easier, theres a problem. No item should be that strong.


Perhaps people should play sustained dps champions...

On March 15 2014 08:08 Gahlo wrote:
On March 15 2014 07:38 Goumindong wrote:
On March 15 2014 04:05 Gahlo wrote:
On March 15 2014 02:03 dae wrote:
On March 15 2014 01:37 Gahlo wrote:
On March 15 2014 01:35 arb wrote:
On March 15 2014 01:15 VayneAuthority wrote:
MR itemization in this game has been garbage since the beginning of time, they can't seem to figure that one out

Wasnt that bad when FoN was in the game tbh. Now it needs apretty big overhaul i feel

It was fine after the changes they made mid S3. The people had to get all uppity about champion synergy.


I remember when athenes/chalice was actually considered a MR item instead of a god item.

Uh, Athene's was a god item on release, then it became an ubergod item cause people were dumbfucks and didn't buy it, so Riot buffed it.

90AP Athenes, never forget.


Athenes being god has little to do with its stats and everything to do with the blue buff Nerf and mastery changes which make getting buff duration a less obvious choice. Combined with some junglers taking blue so they can ult gank more often.

The changes from ranged to super tanky tops also helped because burst was less important compared to sustain and sustained damage(cdr). There were also straight nerfs to the popular burst/assassin mages that were around before the Athens Nerf. Also nerfs to Dorans ring. Iirc. These meta changes also accentuated siege champions and so sustain for clear became more important.

Athenes at +10 AP wasn't a good item at the time it had the +10 AP.

Blue buff's mana regen was nerfed before Athene's came out. Athenes saw play before the CDR nerf on blue, which was only November of last year. The reason it wasn't as wide spread is because we had a lot more physical damage mids like pre-nerf Zed forcing early Armguard/Tear instead on heavy mana users. Grail is a lot like Triforce where it has a much larger impact as a first item as opposed to a later item, assuming it isn't put in a position where it's in the "This is the 1 offensive item I need for my damage to remain relevant."

The very state of midlane itself was enough to cause it to not be bought. That didn't make it a bad item.

On March 15 2014 08:01 dae wrote:
On March 15 2014 07:41 cLutZ wrote:
On March 15 2014 07:34 dae wrote:
On March 15 2014 06:51 cLutZ wrote:
On March 15 2014 04:20 TheYango wrote:
The original BVeil passive was fine.


It really doesn't matter what the passive is. The purpose of the current BV passive, or any passive that is Banshees-Veil-Like is to have a mid-lategame itemization option that punishes mages that rely on 1-2 damage spells or 1-2 CC spells (often combined like Gragas or Annie). BV is supposed to make those champions weaker no matter the changes to the passive. The fact that it does, and is being bought a lot to do that is a commentary on that type of champion rather than the item itself.


The reason why everyone gets a BV lategame has not much to do with countering 1 champion, its to make it almost impossible to catch you in an engage.

Right now its like, pop the bvs, then try to get an engage in the 20 seconds they are down, if you fail try again.

Without BV in the game you'd see a lot less sustained boring sieges without either team engaging.

Honestly BV should only block the spells damage and nothing else.


That is just an indication that picks are also too strong in the meta.


When the game turns into which team can pop the other team's BV's easier, theres a problem. No item should be that strong.


We should nerf Zhonya's and GA while we're at it.

Or, he's a better idea. Play with some AOE.


Thats good too.

I mean, the real question is, if Banshees is so "strong" or "op" why aren't people flocking to play Karthus, Anivia, Cassio, Rumble, Kennen, Singed, Ryze, etc? They all chuckle at BV compared to Leblanc, Gragas, Nidalee, etc. And its even deeper because most popular support picks like Thresh, Leona, Annie, (and Elise/Pantheon the master junglers) also are heavily reliant on single spells.

http://lol.gamepedia.com/Riot_League_Championship_Series/North_America/2014_Season/Statistics/Spring_Round_Robin/Pick_and_Ban_Stats

If you got here, you really have Toplaners who dont really care, then have to go all the way down to Kayle and Ziggs to find champions that deal with BV well.

It's still too early to say. I don't remember the picks changing too much since the SV=>BV shift, which was by in large due to SV nerfs. It just happens to be in a place where it's good against the strong mids for the previous state of the game. Throwing hands in the air and going "It's too good" right now is pretty alarmist and only feeds into the "If something is ever good it should be nerfed" mindset.

Lb, Gragas, and Nid all rush Athene's currently. Some because of how they work in general, or in the case of Lb, because it fits when going against BV is a relevant situation. All of them are free enough to toss out a spell multiple times before a BV would reactivate.

Karthus: Probably has more matchup issues in general holding him back, most notably + Show Spoiler [IEM spoilers] +
how badly Alex Ich for dumptered by Dinter's Ziggs today.

Anivia: It's been so long since she's been good, and even when she was I don't remember more than a handful outside of Froggen playing her.
Cassio: I feel she falls under the "If you miss your skillshots you don't do anything" terror that causes quite a few champions to drop from competitive play(aka Ahri.)
Rumble: Can't handle heavy tank trend in general, even before BV was a relevant consideration.
Kennen: I hear a lot of talk about the possibility of him seeing play due to the Dshield nerf, which previously killed his laning.
Singed: Seems to fall under the same blanket as Rumble, where he can't handle Cowl from everything I've read.
Ryze: Is starting to see some play again due to tear buffs + personal buffs/partial nerf reverts form the last time he was overbearing in competitive play.


For sure each of them has their own specific issues. The thing is when basically a whole class of champions is good against an item what is allegedly OP, one must rethink defining that item as OP. I mean, if people start buying BV against Karthus + Khazix comps, then there is an issue.
Freeeeeeedom
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
March 15 2014 02:31 GMT
#2329
On March 15 2014 08:21 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 15 2014 08:01 dae wrote:
On March 15 2014 07:41 cLutZ wrote:
On March 15 2014 07:34 dae wrote:
On March 15 2014 06:51 cLutZ wrote:
On March 15 2014 04:20 TheYango wrote:
The original BVeil passive was fine.


It really doesn't matter what the passive is. The purpose of the current BV passive, or any passive that is Banshees-Veil-Like is to have a mid-lategame itemization option that punishes mages that rely on 1-2 damage spells or 1-2 CC spells (often combined like Gragas or Annie). BV is supposed to make those champions weaker no matter the changes to the passive. The fact that it does, and is being bought a lot to do that is a commentary on that type of champion rather than the item itself.


The reason why everyone gets a BV lategame has not much to do with countering 1 champion, its to make it almost impossible to catch you in an engage.

Right now its like, pop the bvs, then try to get an engage in the 20 seconds they are down, if you fail try again.

Without BV in the game you'd see a lot less sustained boring sieges without either team engaging.

Honestly BV should only block the spells damage and nothing else.


That is just an indication that picks are also too strong in the meta.


When the game turns into which team can pop the other team's BV's easier, theres a problem. No item should be that strong.


Perhaps people should play sustained dps champions...

Show nested quote +
On March 15 2014 08:08 Gahlo wrote:
On March 15 2014 07:38 Goumindong wrote:
On March 15 2014 04:05 Gahlo wrote:
On March 15 2014 02:03 dae wrote:
On March 15 2014 01:37 Gahlo wrote:
On March 15 2014 01:35 arb wrote:
On March 15 2014 01:15 VayneAuthority wrote:
MR itemization in this game has been garbage since the beginning of time, they can't seem to figure that one out

Wasnt that bad when FoN was in the game tbh. Now it needs apretty big overhaul i feel

It was fine after the changes they made mid S3. The people had to get all uppity about champion synergy.


I remember when athenes/chalice was actually considered a MR item instead of a god item.

Uh, Athene's was a god item on release, then it became an ubergod item cause people were dumbfucks and didn't buy it, so Riot buffed it.

90AP Athenes, never forget.


Athenes being god has little to do with its stats and everything to do with the blue buff Nerf and mastery changes which make getting buff duration a less obvious choice. Combined with some junglers taking blue so they can ult gank more often.

The changes from ranged to super tanky tops also helped because burst was less important compared to sustain and sustained damage(cdr). There were also straight nerfs to the popular burst/assassin mages that were around before the Athens Nerf. Also nerfs to Dorans ring. Iirc. These meta changes also accentuated siege champions and so sustain for clear became more important.

Athenes at +10 AP wasn't a good item at the time it had the +10 AP.

Blue buff's mana regen was nerfed before Athene's came out. Athenes saw play before the CDR nerf on blue, which was only November of last year. The reason it wasn't as wide spread is because we had a lot more physical damage mids like pre-nerf Zed forcing early Armguard/Tear instead on heavy mana users. Grail is a lot like Triforce where it has a much larger impact as a first item as opposed to a later item, assuming it isn't put in a position where it's in the "This is the 1 offensive item I need for my damage to remain relevant."

The very state of midlane itself was enough to cause it to not be bought. That didn't make it a bad item.

On March 15 2014 08:01 dae wrote:
On March 15 2014 07:41 cLutZ wrote:
On March 15 2014 07:34 dae wrote:
On March 15 2014 06:51 cLutZ wrote:
On March 15 2014 04:20 TheYango wrote:
The original BVeil passive was fine.


It really doesn't matter what the passive is. The purpose of the current BV passive, or any passive that is Banshees-Veil-Like is to have a mid-lategame itemization option that punishes mages that rely on 1-2 damage spells or 1-2 CC spells (often combined like Gragas or Annie). BV is supposed to make those champions weaker no matter the changes to the passive. The fact that it does, and is being bought a lot to do that is a commentary on that type of champion rather than the item itself.


The reason why everyone gets a BV lategame has not much to do with countering 1 champion, its to make it almost impossible to catch you in an engage.

Right now its like, pop the bvs, then try to get an engage in the 20 seconds they are down, if you fail try again.

Without BV in the game you'd see a lot less sustained boring sieges without either team engaging.

Honestly BV should only block the spells damage and nothing else.


That is just an indication that picks are also too strong in the meta.


When the game turns into which team can pop the other team's BV's easier, theres a problem. No item should be that strong.


We should nerf Zhonya's and GA while we're at it.

Or, he's a better idea. Play with some AOE.


Thats good too.

I mean, the real question is, if Banshees is so "strong" or "op" why aren't people flocking to play Karthus, Anivia, Cassio, Rumble, Kennen, Singed, Ryze, etc? They all chuckle at BV compared to Leblanc, Gragas, Nidalee, etc. And its even deeper because most popular support picks like Thresh, Leona, Annie, (and Elise/Pantheon the master junglers) also are heavily reliant on single spells.

http://lol.gamepedia.com/Riot_League_Championship_Series/North_America/2014_Season/Statistics/Spring_Round_Robin/Pick_and_Ban_Stats

If you got here, you really have Toplaners who dont really care, then have to go all the way down to Kayle and Ziggs to find champions that deal with BV well.

Because picking champs to specifically deal with BV is putting the cart before the horse. if the thing you pick can't survive laning phase, no real point talking about having it to deal with a singular item.
liftlift > tsm
Chrispy
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada5878 Posts
March 15 2014 02:37 GMT
#2330
There's just gotta be massive attacks on Riot's servers or something lately.

I've never experienced so much lag so persistently.
Retvrn to Forvms
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
March 15 2014 02:41 GMT
#2331
On March 15 2014 11:31 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 15 2014 08:21 cLutZ wrote:
On March 15 2014 08:01 dae wrote:
On March 15 2014 07:41 cLutZ wrote:
On March 15 2014 07:34 dae wrote:
On March 15 2014 06:51 cLutZ wrote:
On March 15 2014 04:20 TheYango wrote:
The original BVeil passive was fine.


It really doesn't matter what the passive is. The purpose of the current BV passive, or any passive that is Banshees-Veil-Like is to have a mid-lategame itemization option that punishes mages that rely on 1-2 damage spells or 1-2 CC spells (often combined like Gragas or Annie). BV is supposed to make those champions weaker no matter the changes to the passive. The fact that it does, and is being bought a lot to do that is a commentary on that type of champion rather than the item itself.


The reason why everyone gets a BV lategame has not much to do with countering 1 champion, its to make it almost impossible to catch you in an engage.

Right now its like, pop the bvs, then try to get an engage in the 20 seconds they are down, if you fail try again.

Without BV in the game you'd see a lot less sustained boring sieges without either team engaging.

Honestly BV should only block the spells damage and nothing else.


That is just an indication that picks are also too strong in the meta.


When the game turns into which team can pop the other team's BV's easier, theres a problem. No item should be that strong.


Perhaps people should play sustained dps champions...

On March 15 2014 08:08 Gahlo wrote:
On March 15 2014 07:38 Goumindong wrote:
On March 15 2014 04:05 Gahlo wrote:
On March 15 2014 02:03 dae wrote:
On March 15 2014 01:37 Gahlo wrote:
On March 15 2014 01:35 arb wrote:
On March 15 2014 01:15 VayneAuthority wrote:
MR itemization in this game has been garbage since the beginning of time, they can't seem to figure that one out

Wasnt that bad when FoN was in the game tbh. Now it needs apretty big overhaul i feel

It was fine after the changes they made mid S3. The people had to get all uppity about champion synergy.


I remember when athenes/chalice was actually considered a MR item instead of a god item.

Uh, Athene's was a god item on release, then it became an ubergod item cause people were dumbfucks and didn't buy it, so Riot buffed it.

90AP Athenes, never forget.


Athenes being god has little to do with its stats and everything to do with the blue buff Nerf and mastery changes which make getting buff duration a less obvious choice. Combined with some junglers taking blue so they can ult gank more often.

The changes from ranged to super tanky tops also helped because burst was less important compared to sustain and sustained damage(cdr). There were also straight nerfs to the popular burst/assassin mages that were around before the Athens Nerf. Also nerfs to Dorans ring. Iirc. These meta changes also accentuated siege champions and so sustain for clear became more important.

Athenes at +10 AP wasn't a good item at the time it had the +10 AP.

Blue buff's mana regen was nerfed before Athene's came out. Athenes saw play before the CDR nerf on blue, which was only November of last year. The reason it wasn't as wide spread is because we had a lot more physical damage mids like pre-nerf Zed forcing early Armguard/Tear instead on heavy mana users. Grail is a lot like Triforce where it has a much larger impact as a first item as opposed to a later item, assuming it isn't put in a position where it's in the "This is the 1 offensive item I need for my damage to remain relevant."

The very state of midlane itself was enough to cause it to not be bought. That didn't make it a bad item.

On March 15 2014 08:01 dae wrote:
On March 15 2014 07:41 cLutZ wrote:
On March 15 2014 07:34 dae wrote:
On March 15 2014 06:51 cLutZ wrote:
On March 15 2014 04:20 TheYango wrote:
The original BVeil passive was fine.


It really doesn't matter what the passive is. The purpose of the current BV passive, or any passive that is Banshees-Veil-Like is to have a mid-lategame itemization option that punishes mages that rely on 1-2 damage spells or 1-2 CC spells (often combined like Gragas or Annie). BV is supposed to make those champions weaker no matter the changes to the passive. The fact that it does, and is being bought a lot to do that is a commentary on that type of champion rather than the item itself.


The reason why everyone gets a BV lategame has not much to do with countering 1 champion, its to make it almost impossible to catch you in an engage.

Right now its like, pop the bvs, then try to get an engage in the 20 seconds they are down, if you fail try again.

Without BV in the game you'd see a lot less sustained boring sieges without either team engaging.

Honestly BV should only block the spells damage and nothing else.


That is just an indication that picks are also too strong in the meta.


When the game turns into which team can pop the other team's BV's easier, theres a problem. No item should be that strong.


We should nerf Zhonya's and GA while we're at it.

Or, he's a better idea. Play with some AOE.


Thats good too.

I mean, the real question is, if Banshees is so "strong" or "op" why aren't people flocking to play Karthus, Anivia, Cassio, Rumble, Kennen, Singed, Ryze, etc? They all chuckle at BV compared to Leblanc, Gragas, Nidalee, etc. And its even deeper because most popular support picks like Thresh, Leona, Annie, (and Elise/Pantheon the master junglers) also are heavily reliant on single spells.

http://lol.gamepedia.com/Riot_League_Championship_Series/North_America/2014_Season/Statistics/Spring_Round_Robin/Pick_and_Ban_Stats

If you got here, you really have Toplaners who dont really care, then have to go all the way down to Kayle and Ziggs to find champions that deal with BV well.

Because picking champs to specifically deal with BV is putting the cart before the horse. if the thing you pick can't survive laning phase, no real point talking about having it to deal with a singular item.


Perhaps that is just Riot mismanaging the balance between different character archetypes then. If no sustained DPS mages can make it to teamfight phase on a regular basis, then they need to buff some of the sustained dps mages...
Freeeeeeedom
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
March 15 2014 03:00 GMT
#2332
On March 15 2014 11:41 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 15 2014 11:31 wei2coolman wrote:
On March 15 2014 08:21 cLutZ wrote:
On March 15 2014 08:01 dae wrote:
On March 15 2014 07:41 cLutZ wrote:
On March 15 2014 07:34 dae wrote:
On March 15 2014 06:51 cLutZ wrote:
On March 15 2014 04:20 TheYango wrote:
The original BVeil passive was fine.


It really doesn't matter what the passive is. The purpose of the current BV passive, or any passive that is Banshees-Veil-Like is to have a mid-lategame itemization option that punishes mages that rely on 1-2 damage spells or 1-2 CC spells (often combined like Gragas or Annie). BV is supposed to make those champions weaker no matter the changes to the passive. The fact that it does, and is being bought a lot to do that is a commentary on that type of champion rather than the item itself.


The reason why everyone gets a BV lategame has not much to do with countering 1 champion, its to make it almost impossible to catch you in an engage.

Right now its like, pop the bvs, then try to get an engage in the 20 seconds they are down, if you fail try again.

Without BV in the game you'd see a lot less sustained boring sieges without either team engaging.

Honestly BV should only block the spells damage and nothing else.


That is just an indication that picks are also too strong in the meta.


When the game turns into which team can pop the other team's BV's easier, theres a problem. No item should be that strong.


Perhaps people should play sustained dps champions...

On March 15 2014 08:08 Gahlo wrote:
On March 15 2014 07:38 Goumindong wrote:
On March 15 2014 04:05 Gahlo wrote:
On March 15 2014 02:03 dae wrote:
On March 15 2014 01:37 Gahlo wrote:
On March 15 2014 01:35 arb wrote:
On March 15 2014 01:15 VayneAuthority wrote:
MR itemization in this game has been garbage since the beginning of time, they can't seem to figure that one out

Wasnt that bad when FoN was in the game tbh. Now it needs apretty big overhaul i feel

It was fine after the changes they made mid S3. The people had to get all uppity about champion synergy.


I remember when athenes/chalice was actually considered a MR item instead of a god item.

Uh, Athene's was a god item on release, then it became an ubergod item cause people were dumbfucks and didn't buy it, so Riot buffed it.

90AP Athenes, never forget.


Athenes being god has little to do with its stats and everything to do with the blue buff Nerf and mastery changes which make getting buff duration a less obvious choice. Combined with some junglers taking blue so they can ult gank more often.

The changes from ranged to super tanky tops also helped because burst was less important compared to sustain and sustained damage(cdr). There were also straight nerfs to the popular burst/assassin mages that were around before the Athens Nerf. Also nerfs to Dorans ring. Iirc. These meta changes also accentuated siege champions and so sustain for clear became more important.

Athenes at +10 AP wasn't a good item at the time it had the +10 AP.

Blue buff's mana regen was nerfed before Athene's came out. Athenes saw play before the CDR nerf on blue, which was only November of last year. The reason it wasn't as wide spread is because we had a lot more physical damage mids like pre-nerf Zed forcing early Armguard/Tear instead on heavy mana users. Grail is a lot like Triforce where it has a much larger impact as a first item as opposed to a later item, assuming it isn't put in a position where it's in the "This is the 1 offensive item I need for my damage to remain relevant."

The very state of midlane itself was enough to cause it to not be bought. That didn't make it a bad item.

On March 15 2014 08:01 dae wrote:
On March 15 2014 07:41 cLutZ wrote:
On March 15 2014 07:34 dae wrote:
On March 15 2014 06:51 cLutZ wrote:
On March 15 2014 04:20 TheYango wrote:
The original BVeil passive was fine.


It really doesn't matter what the passive is. The purpose of the current BV passive, or any passive that is Banshees-Veil-Like is to have a mid-lategame itemization option that punishes mages that rely on 1-2 damage spells or 1-2 CC spells (often combined like Gragas or Annie). BV is supposed to make those champions weaker no matter the changes to the passive. The fact that it does, and is being bought a lot to do that is a commentary on that type of champion rather than the item itself.


The reason why everyone gets a BV lategame has not much to do with countering 1 champion, its to make it almost impossible to catch you in an engage.

Right now its like, pop the bvs, then try to get an engage in the 20 seconds they are down, if you fail try again.

Without BV in the game you'd see a lot less sustained boring sieges without either team engaging.

Honestly BV should only block the spells damage and nothing else.


That is just an indication that picks are also too strong in the meta.


When the game turns into which team can pop the other team's BV's easier, theres a problem. No item should be that strong.


We should nerf Zhonya's and GA while we're at it.

Or, he's a better idea. Play with some AOE.


Thats good too.

I mean, the real question is, if Banshees is so "strong" or "op" why aren't people flocking to play Karthus, Anivia, Cassio, Rumble, Kennen, Singed, Ryze, etc? They all chuckle at BV compared to Leblanc, Gragas, Nidalee, etc. And its even deeper because most popular support picks like Thresh, Leona, Annie, (and Elise/Pantheon the master junglers) also are heavily reliant on single spells.

http://lol.gamepedia.com/Riot_League_Championship_Series/North_America/2014_Season/Statistics/Spring_Round_Robin/Pick_and_Ban_Stats

If you got here, you really have Toplaners who dont really care, then have to go all the way down to Kayle and Ziggs to find champions that deal with BV well.

Because picking champs to specifically deal with BV is putting the cart before the horse. if the thing you pick can't survive laning phase, no real point talking about having it to deal with a singular item.


Perhaps that is just Riot mismanaging the balance between different character archetypes then. If no sustained DPS mages can make it to teamfight phase on a regular basis, then they need to buff some of the sustained dps mages...

shhhh riot makes no mistakes... shhhh
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-15 03:09:09
March 15 2014 03:08 GMT
#2333
sustained mage types were slow to ramp up and taht's the big problem with them now.

seems like the best fix is to make them ramp up faster, which would make them less sustainable mages and more bursty mages.

nobody wants to watch 40 minutes of Highly Strategic Farming into 2 teamfights.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
anmolsinghmzn2009
Profile Joined June 2011
India1783 Posts
March 15 2014 03:13 GMT
#2334
Man it's so difficult to learn adc for someone who almost exclusively plays tanky shit. I feel bad for all the adcs' day I've ruined while playing jungle now that I'm on the receiving end of it, and can't kite/micro for shit.
Still dont have any sympathy for vayne players. Fuck vayne.
Dunk first. Ask questions while dunking.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
March 15 2014 03:25 GMT
#2335
On March 15 2014 12:08 oneofthem wrote:
sustained mage types were slow to ramp up and taht's the big problem with them now.

seems like the best fix is to make them ramp up faster, which would make them less sustainable mages and more bursty mages.

nobody wants to watch 40 minutes of Highly Strategic Farming into 2 teamfights.

problem with making them ramp up at 2 item timing is that they'd be beyond broken at 4th+ item timing.
The reason the mid champs we have now are good is because they start scaling strongly at 1st item timing, and scale really well all the way up to 5th item. Imagine if you made continuous dps dudes start scaling at 2nd item or earlier, they'd be beyond broken at all stages of the game past that point.
liftlift > tsm
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
March 15 2014 03:32 GMT
#2336
On March 15 2014 12:08 oneofthem wrote:
sustained mage types were slow to ramp up and taht's the big problem with them now.

seems like the best fix is to make them ramp up faster, which would make them less sustainable mages and more bursty mages.

nobody wants to watch 40 minutes of Highly Strategic Farming into 2 teamfights.

so buff their base stats/stat gain so they are tankier, and can survive the laning phase and early fights without being destroyed.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
March 15 2014 03:35 GMT
#2337
On March 15 2014 12:13 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:
Man it's so difficult to learn adc for someone who almost exclusively plays tanky shit. I feel bad for all the adcs' day I've ruined while playing jungle now that I'm on the receiving end of it, and can't kite/micro for shit.
Still dont have any sympathy for vayne players. Fuck vayne.


I feel Ashe is the easiest to play at a reasonably good level.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
March 15 2014 03:38 GMT
#2338
I still think they need to change Cassiopeia that when she casts E on a poisoned target, her E will reset even if her target dies while E is on route. The way it works right now is absolutely dumb, and it makes her really unreliable.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Klonere
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Ireland4123 Posts
March 15 2014 03:39 GMT
#2339
On March 15 2014 12:35 Sufficiency wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 15 2014 12:13 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:
Man it's so difficult to learn adc for someone who almost exclusively plays tanky shit. I feel bad for all the adcs' day I've ruined while playing jungle now that I'm on the receiving end of it, and can't kite/micro for shit.
Still dont have any sympathy for vayne players. Fuck vayne.


I feel Ashe is the easiest to play at a reasonably good level.


I think Lucian is a pretty easy to get into ADC, you've some nice poke, a great dash that can get you out of a sticky situation, easy to understand passive and da culling

ashe is far harder due to a lack of mobility imo
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
March 15 2014 03:40 GMT
#2340
On March 15 2014 12:25 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 15 2014 12:08 oneofthem wrote:
sustained mage types were slow to ramp up and taht's the big problem with them now.

seems like the best fix is to make them ramp up faster, which would make them less sustainable mages and more bursty mages.

nobody wants to watch 40 minutes of Highly Strategic Farming into 2 teamfights.

problem with making them ramp up at 2 item timing is that they'd be beyond broken at 4th+ item timing.
The reason the mid champs we have now are good is because they start scaling strongly at 1st item timing, and scale really well all the way up to 5th item. Imagine if you made continuous dps dudes start scaling at 2nd item or earlier, they'd be beyond broken at all stages of the game past that point.

i think part of riot's reluctance to introduce sharper power curves and lategame scaling is that they are afraid of producing a meta in which the goal of the game is to drag things out until your dudes outscale so completely that winning is assured that way.

so if they do make stuff like anivia more viable they'll probably be nerfed lategame. but doing so would also make them less unique and appealing to guys like clutz who like to see the s2 style farm game return.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
Prev 1 115 116 117 118 119 133 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 17h 11m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Serral 2062
RushiSC 33
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 6231
Bisu 2082
Shuttle 1516
Sea 1400
Jaedong 1042
Soulkey 782
EffOrt 720
Mini 644
Soma 348
Light 331
[ Show more ]
firebathero 297
Snow 191
Rush 78
Sea.KH 46
Free 43
Killer 37
Hm[arnc] 34
sorry 32
Movie 30
sSak 24
Terrorterran 24
Bale 22
scan(afreeca) 22
Rock 21
yabsab 19
Aegong 19
Sexy 15
Shine 10
Yoon 9
IntoTheRainbow 6
Dota 2
Gorgc7422
XcaliburYe144
League of Legends
KnowMe46
Counter-Strike
fl0m1156
byalli376
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0129
Other Games
singsing1892
hiko732
B2W.Neo661
ceh9287
crisheroes185
Livibee90
XaKoH 81
Trikslyr46
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2775
StarCraft 2
TaKeTV381
Other Games
BasetradeTV265
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• mYiSmile142
• LUISG 4
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis4646
• TFBlade1386
Other Games
• imaqtpie841
• Shiphtur350
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
17h 11m
Replay Cast
1d 16h
CrankTV Team League
1d 18h
Replay Cast
2 days
CrankTV Team League
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Clem vs Lambo
Scarlett vs Cure
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
IPSL
3 days
Dragon vs Hawk
RSL Revival
4 days
Classic vs Trap
herO vs SHIN
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
IPSL
4 days
Bonyth vs Ret
WardiTV Weekly
5 days
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

YSL S3
HSC XXIX
Eternal Conflict S2 E2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
SCTL 2026 Spring
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W3
ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 1
Escore Tournament S3: W4
ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 2
Escore Tournament S3: W5
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E3
Logitech G Connect 2026
StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.