• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 06:55
CEST 12:55
KST 19:55
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins EWC 202532Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 20259Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202580RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15
Community News
[BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder8EWC 2025 - Replay Pack4Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced38BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0
StarCraft 2
General
Classic: "It's a thick wall to break through to become world champ" Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Serral wins EWC 2025 EWC 2025 - Replay Pack
Tourneys
Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) TaeJa vs Creator Bo7 SC Evo Showmatch Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event Esports World Cup 2025
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL BW General Discussion [BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder Brood War web app to calculate unit interactions
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL] Non-Korean Championship - Final weekend [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China
Strategy
Does 1 second matter in StarCraft? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Total Annihilation Server - TAForever [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok)
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative UK Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Link Between Fitness and…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 541 users

[Patch 4.1] Season 4 Start General Discussion - Page 163

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 161 162 163 164 165 232 Next
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
February 02 2014 19:53 GMT
#3241
On February 03 2014 04:28 nafta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 03 2014 04:26 wei2coolman wrote:
On February 03 2014 03:58 Slusher wrote:
On February 03 2014 03:35 Shikyo wrote:
On February 03 2014 03:09 Slusher wrote:
wtf leona needs dshield less than like any other support

How? She's melee... I'd say she needs it more than like any other support


Relic shield isn't worse enough to justify the gold difference when you take into consideration

a) W
b) the nature of Leona trades
c) How good Leona scales with items
d) Leona can put 21 in D, does not need as much of the utility tree as a lot of the ranged supports. (or I should say is too good with 21 D to justify deep utility ofc deep utility "could" be useful)

it (unintentionally I'm sure) is a lot better on ranged supports who want to auto trade a lot, because it allows them to get a lot more out of the trade than an adc with a dblade think, Annie, Karma, Lulu, Thresh

oh and Sona ofc, Sona virtually nonviable w/o dshield I would say she needs it more than any other support.

The problem with relic is the level 1-2, where leona sorta gets shoved on and enemies get level 2 earlier. If you can hit level 3 without getting dumped on by an all in at level 2, then relic shield is better. But Dshield mitigates a lot of the level 1-2 shenanigans that happens.

You could just buy 3 pots and it would be literally the same except you would get more gold and heal your ad a bit.Most people know you have to 1v2 pretty much really early when you playing with leona.It is standart to stay in xp range and miss a few cs not the end of world.


I am not sure. I feel that in the Leona vs Thresh matchup, if Leona has D Shield and Thresh does not, Thresh will get pushed around like crazy. The difference is huge.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
yamato77
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
11589 Posts
February 02 2014 19:55 GMT
#3242
Riot's problem has always been their inability to see the game as an organic being. Just because they designed something with a particular purpose in mind DOES NOT mean that emergent gameplay will see it in the same light. Thus, their decisions are often heavy-handed because they are insistent on forcing their ideas instead of letting the game evolve on its own.

GP10, Wriggle's, jungle items, jungle camps, warding and now the support items have all seen inelegant changes forced upon them so that Riot can dictate how their game is to be played. Of course, they do this with the mindset that they are creating a game that is both fun to play and fun to watch, as is obviously their business interest.

So, my question to you, GD, do you enjoy playing or watching the game now more than you did before all these changes? Obviously some of these changes date back to S2 or earlier, so some of you might have a different perspective, but it is still important nonetheless. Is Riot doing a good job making a fun game to watch/play?
Writer@WriterYamato
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-02 19:57:59
February 02 2014 19:55 GMT
#3243
what else is thresh seriously going to start though

also thresh has a ranged attack to harass her away so it all depends on thresh hooks on how leona engages like every other thresh and leona matchup
Shiznick
Profile Joined December 2008
United States2200 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-02 19:58:37
February 02 2014 19:56 GMT
#3244
On February 03 2014 04:49 Slayer91 wrote:
Dorans shield damage reduction occurs BEFORE all defensive scaling I think. Otherwise it would be broken
ancient coin is much worse as gp10 , I often get 800-1000 gold from the relic shield shit.

I've read in multiple places that Doran's Shield applies after armor, but they didn't really corroborate with test results or anything like that.
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-02 20:00:12
February 02 2014 19:59 GMT
#3245
On February 03 2014 04:56 Shiznick wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 03 2014 04:49 Slayer91 wrote:
Dorans shield damage reduction occurs BEFORE all defensive scaling I think. Otherwise it would be broken
ancient coin is much worse as gp10 , I often get 800-1000 gold from the relic shield shit.

I've read in multiple places that Doran's Shield applies after armor, but they didn't really corroborate with test results or anything like that.


source?
http://www.reignofgaming.net/forums/strategy/runes-and-mastery-discussion/30802-mastery-theorycrafting-reinforced-armor-doran
"For those who did not want to read the full test result:

Doran Shield blocks 6 raw damage before armor calculation"
this was before the block buff but there's no reason that riot would change
nafta
Profile Joined August 2010
Bulgaria18893 Posts
February 02 2014 20:00 GMT
#3246
On February 03 2014 04:53 Sufficiency wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 03 2014 04:28 nafta wrote:
On February 03 2014 04:26 wei2coolman wrote:
On February 03 2014 03:58 Slusher wrote:
On February 03 2014 03:35 Shikyo wrote:
On February 03 2014 03:09 Slusher wrote:
wtf leona needs dshield less than like any other support

How? She's melee... I'd say she needs it more than like any other support


Relic shield isn't worse enough to justify the gold difference when you take into consideration

a) W
b) the nature of Leona trades
c) How good Leona scales with items
d) Leona can put 21 in D, does not need as much of the utility tree as a lot of the ranged supports. (or I should say is too good with 21 D to justify deep utility ofc deep utility "could" be useful)

it (unintentionally I'm sure) is a lot better on ranged supports who want to auto trade a lot, because it allows them to get a lot more out of the trade than an adc with a dblade think, Annie, Karma, Lulu, Thresh

oh and Sona ofc, Sona virtually nonviable w/o dshield I would say she needs it more than any other support.

The problem with relic is the level 1-2, where leona sorta gets shoved on and enemies get level 2 earlier. If you can hit level 3 without getting dumped on by an all in at level 2, then relic shield is better. But Dshield mitigates a lot of the level 1-2 shenanigans that happens.

You could just buy 3 pots and it would be literally the same except you would get more gold and heal your ad a bit.Most people know you have to 1v2 pretty much really early when you playing with leona.It is standart to stay in xp range and miss a few cs not the end of world.


I am not sure. I feel that in the Leona vs Thresh matchup, if Leona has D Shield and Thresh does not, Thresh will get pushed around like crazy. The difference is huge.

Pre 6 leona shouldnt be able to do anything no matter your starting items.
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
February 02 2014 20:00 GMT
#3247
flay can rapp leonas e but sometimes you can still get stun off actually
Haiq343
Profile Joined August 2011
United States2548 Posts
February 02 2014 20:00 GMT
#3248
On February 03 2014 04:56 Shiznick wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 03 2014 04:49 Slayer91 wrote:
Dorans shield damage reduction occurs BEFORE all defensive scaling I think. Otherwise it would be broken
ancient coin is much worse as gp10 , I often get 800-1000 gold from the relic shield shit.

I've read in multiple places that Doran's Shield applies after armor, but they didn't really corroborate with test results or anything like that.

Go do Science!
I am enough of an artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination encircles the world. -Einstein
nafta
Profile Joined August 2010
Bulgaria18893 Posts
February 02 2014 20:05 GMT
#3249
On February 03 2014 05:00 Slayer91 wrote:
flay can rapp leonas e but sometimes you can still get stun off actually

What do you mean?She still jumps if thresh flays too early or his ad has bad positioning and doesn't feel like babysitting him.Still think should be easy for a thresh lane to be ahead in cs at least pre 6 vs leona.
Shiznick
Profile Joined December 2008
United States2200 Posts
February 02 2014 20:09 GMT
#3250
On February 03 2014 04:59 Slayer91 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 03 2014 04:56 Shiznick wrote:
On February 03 2014 04:49 Slayer91 wrote:
Dorans shield damage reduction occurs BEFORE all defensive scaling I think. Otherwise it would be broken
ancient coin is much worse as gp10 , I often get 800-1000 gold from the relic shield shit.

I've read in multiple places that Doran's Shield applies after armor, but they didn't really corroborate with test results or anything like that.


source?
http://www.reignofgaming.net/forums/strategy/runes-and-mastery-discussion/30802-mastery-theorycrafting-reinforced-armor-doran
"For those who did not want to read the full test result:

Doran Shield blocks 6 raw damage before armor calculation"
this was before the block buff but there's no reason that riot would change

all of the topics I saw by googling didn't actually do any experiments like in that post, so I guess I was wrong.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21679 Posts
February 02 2014 20:10 GMT
#3251
On February 03 2014 04:28 Yezzus wrote:
NA servers are so fucked and no loss forgivens...

Why would there be loss forgiven?
EU had the problem for months and months and rarely to never got loss forgiven.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
ArchAngelSC
Profile Joined April 2012
England706 Posts
February 02 2014 20:11 GMT
#3252
On February 03 2014 05:10 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 03 2014 04:28 Yezzus wrote:
NA servers are so fucked and no loss forgivens...

Why would there be loss forgiven?
EU had the problem for months and months and rarely to never got loss forgiven.

I play on EUW and I've never had a single loss forgiven ever.
nafta
Profile Joined August 2010
Bulgaria18893 Posts
February 02 2014 20:12 GMT
#3253
I have seen/had a lot of loss forgivens.....not enough though :D.
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
February 02 2014 20:19 GMT
#3254
On February 03 2014 05:05 nafta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 03 2014 05:00 Slayer91 wrote:
flay can rapp leonas e but sometimes you can still get stun off actually

What do you mean?She still jumps if thresh flays too early or his ad has bad positioning and doesn't feel like babysitting him.Still think should be easy for a thresh lane to be ahead in cs at least pre 6 vs leona.


its pretty volatile depending on hooks and engages
being ahead in cs is whatever it depends on ads
Vanka
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
China1336 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-02 20:23:23
February 02 2014 20:22 GMT
#3255
I've seen two losses forgiven's so far, and I'm on my promo too so this is pretty sweet

EDIT: on NA, not in china for two weeks
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
February 02 2014 20:31 GMT
#3256
On February 03 2014 04:52 nafta wrote:
Problem is there is nobody who can get talisman and it is a rather strong active.Otherwise targon gives a lot more gold yeah.


I actually think mountain shield is stronger in solo as it's power is entirely dictated by the holder in comparison
Carrilord has arrived.
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
February 02 2014 20:38 GMT
#3257
On February 03 2014 05:31 Slusher wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 03 2014 04:52 nafta wrote:
Problem is there is nobody who can get talisman and it is a rather strong active.Otherwise targon gives a lot more gold yeah.


I actually think mountain shield is stronger in solo as it's power is entirely dictated by the holder in comparison


that sentence was like a badly translated chinese proverb
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
February 02 2014 20:51 GMT
#3258
Try to conserve words when phone posting
Carrilord has arrived.
nafta
Profile Joined August 2010
Bulgaria18893 Posts
February 02 2014 20:59 GMT
#3259
I dunno having a visible GO TEAM PLS sign and being on an initiator is beast.
MattBarry
Profile Joined March 2011
United States4006 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-02 21:48:57
February 02 2014 21:48 GMT
#3260
I run 34 armor 12 mr 0/30/0 with dshield start on Leona/Thresh. Sometimes I buy Relic on Leona, I don't think it makes much of a difference at that point. Is there any point on getting utility/offensive tree on melee supports I'm liking this set up.
Platinum Support GOD
Prev 1 161 162 163 164 165 232 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 5h 5m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Harstem 194
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 7834
Horang2 3363
ggaemo 2188
Bisu 822
Larva 709
Jaedong 561
firebathero 537
BeSt 428
Zeus 383
EffOrt 340
[ Show more ]
Nal_rA 256
TY 211
ZerO 130
Mong 114
Soma 98
Hyun 96
PianO 88
hero 80
ToSsGirL 66
Killer 56
Soulkey 52
sorry 36
Rush 27
Free 26
Sharp 22
[sc1f]eonzerg 16
Sacsri 16
sSak 15
Bale 10
Hm[arnc] 7
Dota 2
XaKoH 586
XcaliburYe244
Counter-Strike
ScreaM2492
olofmeister2297
shoxiejesuss720
Super Smash Bros
Westballz29
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor5
Other Games
singsing1739
B2W.Neo428
JimRising 321
crisheroes297
Happy257
DeMusliM257
SortOf135
Lowko109
rGuardiaN27
ZerO(Twitch)19
kaitlyn13
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 3
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 67
• davetesta18
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV428
Upcoming Events
WardiTV European League
5h 5m
MaNa vs NightPhoenix
ByuN vs YoungYakov
ShoWTimE vs Nicoract
Harstem vs ArT
Korean StarCraft League
16h 5m
CranKy Ducklings
23h 5m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 1h
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs TBD
WardiTV European League
1d 5h
Shameless vs MaxPax
HeRoMaRinE vs SKillous
Online Event
1d 7h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 23h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
Bonyth vs TBD
WardiTV European League
2 days
Wardi Open
3 days
[ Show More ]
OSC
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 20 Non-Korean Championship
FEL Cracow 2025
Underdog Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
CC Div. A S7
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025

Upcoming

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
CAC 2025
Roobet Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.