EPT[Patch 3.13] Heimer Rework General Discussion - Page 91
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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AsnSensation
Germany24009 Posts
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Wolfstan
Canada605 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On November 06 2013 06:40 thenexusp wrote: +% damage doesn't stack especially better with itself, the fact that there are other sources of +% damage doesn't make any one source of +% damage better than it normally would be. spell/bladeweaving is still probably a fine mastery on champs that can take advantage of it, but it's nowhere near being "retarded overpowered" on anyone, just because the maximum potential isn't that high. A +10% damage boost isn't bad, but it's not great if you have to A) spend 6 points on it, and B) have a bunch of conditions be met before it even kicks in fully. Let me put it to you this way. In season 3, Havoc at +0.66% damage per mastery point was (ignoring the 9pt and 21pt) the best thing in the tree for almost everybody. Now you're getting +3% damage per point? That's five times as good. Some champions aren't going to be too thrilled because they just won't have good ways to ramp up that damage, most champions are going to at least like it and think it's decent, but a few are going to jizz their pants over it. Think of it on Varus say, or Riven, or Quinn, or Kennen, etc. | ||
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remedium
United States939 Posts
Have I been living a lie? | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21244 Posts
>best thing int he tree OK.JPG | ||
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LaM
United States1321 Posts
On November 06 2013 07:52 Ketara wrote: See, this is exactly why I didn't want to start this discussion. Because you're pretty much objectively wrong? Havoc is a trash mastery on every AD and almost every mid (and those are the only two roles who would ever consider it). | ||
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21244 Posts
On November 06 2013 07:56 LaM wrote: Because you're pretty much objectively wrong? Havoc is a trash mastery on every AD and almost every mid (and those are the only two roles who would ever consider it). its trash on almost every ad its ok on some mids but its more due to the fact that you have no real alternative to get to 21 off if you're not someone who uses attack speed the mastery itself is objectively shit but leave it to ketara to say it's the best mastery in the tree rofl | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
Not having the enhanced summoner masteries feels weird. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
On November 06 2013 07:40 Wolfstan wrote: So is spell/blade weaving going to be OP on Riven or will giving Riven's passive to everyone make her less powerful on a relative basis? Her passive is still massively better than the mastery. I know I'll be picking them both on her because it's made for her kit. They'll be objectively worse than Havoc was on her, but it's also costs a point less. On November 06 2013 08:00 ticklishmusic wrote: I figure this is what a lot of supports will run next season. Not having the enhanced summoner masteries feels weird. I want to see what ward tricks the 10% cast range opens up. Should make pit=>tri a load easier. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
On November 06 2013 08:03 Gahlo wrote: I want to see what ward tricks the 10% cast range opens up. Should make pit=>tri a load easier. I hadn't considered that point actually-- I'll log onto PBE and start playing around a bit. Most ward-tricks aren't hard, it's just a matter of learning where the sweet spot is. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On November 06 2013 08:07 ticklishmusic wrote: I hadn't considered that point actually-- I'll log onto PBE and start playing around a bit. Most ward-tricks aren't hard, it's just a matter of learning where the sweet spot is. Keep in mind that right now it's pretty much a coin toss as to which masteries are implemented and working. | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On November 06 2013 04:11 Ryuu314 wrote: Eh. Tbh, I feel that the Heimer rework wasn't really beneficial to Heimer other than making him picked more. His grenade is better now, but his turrets, missiles, and ult are arguably weaker. You get more turrets, but they're much squishier and you're still very limited by turret cooldown/kit storage. The new turret's line attack is also sorta bad since the projectile speed is so slow even minions can dodge it. His new missiles are fine, but I think old missiles were stronger since they had longer range, were semi-undodgeable, and did more damage unless you hit multiple missiles on the same target, which isn't easy. Heimer's ulti turret is neat, but I just wish the ulti turret slowed instead of doing the rather pointless aoe attack since enemies generally won't group up enough for the aoe to be meaningful. He also has a lot less utility now due to no more slowing turrets. his ult turret does slow... | ||
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Alzadar
Canada5009 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On November 06 2013 07:56 LaM wrote: Because you're pretty much objectively wrong? Havoc is a trash mastery on every AD and almost every mid (and those are the only two roles who would ever consider it). Okay fine. Every AD Carry. It's not as good for AD Carries as it is for mids but it's still good. Lets pick~ Sivir, she's new. I'm going to show you how much damage 1 point of Havoc adds for Sivir at level 1, 6 and 18, on an autoattack and on her Q. At level 1. 52+22 AD with dblade. Auto: +0.5 damage Q: +1 damage At level 6. 66.4+35.5 AD with two dblades. Auto: +0.67 damage Q: +2.25 damage At level 18. 101.2+238.5 AD with BT/IE/LW/PD Auto: +4 damage (after accounting for crit) Q: +6 damage So, lets review. 1 point of Havoc is better than: 1 point of Deadliness all the time. 1 point of Brute Force after level 6. Sunder I don't want to do math for, but realistically you're always getting Sunder anyway. As far as Fury is concerned, is +0.66% damage better than +1% attackspeed? It's better early game pretty obviously, because +1% attackspeed doesn't actually get you more autos in a fight then and it makes last hitting easier. Late game it's still better as long as at least 30% of the damage you deal in a fight is coming from skills (for some ADCs not gonna happen, but for others perfectly reasonable.) I don't want to do this for any more champions. I've done it in these threads before. You're mathematically wrong. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
As far as Fury is concerned, is +0.66% damage better than +1% attackspeed? It's better early game pretty obviously, because +1% attackspeed doesn't actually get you more autos in a fight then and it makes last hitting easier. Late game it's still better as long as at least 30% of the damage you deal in a fight is coming from skills (for some ADCs not gonna happen, but for others perfectly reasonable. Actually, because 1% attack speed is % base and not % total, 1% attack speed is strictly worse than 0.66% damage at any point past where you have +52% attack speed from items and/or natural attack speed growth even if you're only counting damage from autoattacks. Going from 152% to 153% attack speed is less than 0.66% increase in damage. | ||
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Alzadar
Canada5009 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Havoc isn't as good on autoattackers as it is on casters, because it doesn't increase your autoattack damage all that much. But it's still better than everything else late game, and is at least passably decent early-mid game for autos. Sunder is also really good, but you don't really compare Havoc to Sunder because you're almost always getting both. You compare Havoc to Brute Force and Fury, typically. For more spellcastery champions, especially AP's, Havoc is just hands down the best thing in the tree. Literally this is the fourth or fifth time we've been over this. I don't want to do it again. And now they're adding two single point masteries that, assuming you can reliably get their stacks up, are 5 times as efficient? Pretty ridic. | ||
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