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[Patch 3.13] Heimer Rework General Discussion - Page 57

Forum Index > LoL General
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Lord Tolkien
Profile Joined November 2012
United States12084 Posts
November 02 2013 18:32 GMT
#1121
As Nidalee or Ahri?

Assuming Nialee so I'd say Chalice.
"His father is pretty juicy tbh." ~WaveofShadow
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
November 02 2013 18:33 GMT
#1122
I don't think he's a better pick than Zac, but Twisted Advance isn't something you can really replicate because it follows Flashes and escapes, which can dodge Zac's combos. He also brings more team defensiveness in his ult (as long as you can stay in it) and the variably-useful ability to give vision with saplings (which may be more useful in S4 with ward limits).
It's your boy Guzma!
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
November 02 2013 18:36 GMT
#1123
Heimers new turrets have like 300 hp, just fucking kill them.
Carrilord has arrived.
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-02 18:39:08
November 02 2013 18:38 GMT
#1124
On November 03 2013 03:07 Shikyo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 03 2013 02:42 Ketara wrote:
On November 03 2013 02:41 Shikyo wrote:
How does he allin harshly? o.O You have no way to force the opponent to take it, they can just walk away


Hit an E stun, then ult W.

560+2.4 AP damage at level 6.

For reference, that's a bit more damage than a full Lux combo.

How do you hit E stun? You have all the time in the world to dodge it and the AoE is like half that of Lay Waste


If by half that of Lay Waste you mean almost 3x of Lay Waste (135 opposed to 50) then yes.

And if by all the time in the world you mean the same speed as Ori ball or Morg bind, then also yes.

Orianna's ball and Morg binding never hit anybody, of course.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
November 02 2013 18:42 GMT
#1125
also I don't understand the damage concern in Maokai vs. Zac comparison, Maokai's problem is not damage lol.
Carrilord has arrived.
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
November 02 2013 18:42 GMT
#1126
Maokai is a terrible duelist with no escapes (aside from low cd Q knock-back/slow but it's short-ranged), his clear absolutely sucks without burning a bunch of mana. His pool is actually fairly high, but his mp5 is horrendous and his costs high (W starts at 75 mana, and his ult drains his mana extremely fast).

His cooldowns aren't reduced with levels so he kinda needs some CDR, and mana regen/pool. He's easily invaded and killed, even if you make him fight you then both fall back with high HP, if he had to use spells he's probably not going to be able to gank more than once unless he has blue buff.
Maokai doesn't really bring the damage anymore (he used to bring the cc and a modicum of damage, but he's outclassed by fighters), and thanks to the new jungle items, being able to jungle off of doran items (Lee, Aatrox, etc.) or using sightstone, he's comparatively weaker than before (eg.in season 2 when people would go double gp5 they wouldn't use the stats much better than him, but now try and go for golem spirit while some fighter with double dblades jumps you).

He sucks in 2v2 and fast clearers should be able to countergank him. Higher sustain in lane means there's more often a need to 100-0 people so the way Maokai worked (burn flashes, camp to make miss farm and either kill when too committed or gank multiple times to wear them down) isn't as effective or even possible anymore.
A bunch of popular laners (Renekton, Ahri, Zed, Syndra, etc.) are very safe too.

Underfarmed Maokai just plain dies because he needs item to survive his initiation on a single person. His ult doesn't work well with the heavy dive style currently because if he initiates/dives he won't be able to get his carries in his ult's radius to protect them from assassins, and if he has to play defensively and peel then you rely on somebody else to initiate/poke.

His damage falls off terribly. Compared to Sejuani (even pre-rework), Amumu, or the bullcrap that are Elise's and Zac's kits, Maokai is a cc bot with high mana usage, an anti-burst ult less effective than Lulu's on squishies, and long cooldowns, past the midgame.

If you can make him work he's still able to pull off good ganks, and if the enemy team relies on massive AoE damage (say Karthus+Vlad or Kennen) you can still get a good mileage out of it, but he isn't very effective versus the popular picks or playstyle.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
November 02 2013 18:45 GMT
#1127
Given that his saplings can stack, you'd think the best way to play mao would be to invade.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
FinestHour
Profile Joined August 2010
United States18466 Posts
November 02 2013 19:00 GMT
#1128
are they ever going to make custom announcers like every other moba dota arts arena5v5wizardpvp game has
thug life.                                                       MVP/ex-
Ethelis
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States2400 Posts
November 02 2013 19:05 GMT
#1129
On November 03 2013 03:32 Lord Tolkien wrote:
As Nidalee or Ahri?

Assuming Nialee so I'd say Chalice.


I went chalice, i did fine, game was awful since team self imploded lol. Ty GD
Disabled gamer - Diamond 3 (LoL) D+ Rank scrublord on BW. Bisu doesnt need DTs, He uses probes. just ask Flash.
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
November 02 2013 19:25 GMT
#1130
On November 03 2013 03:42 Alaric wrote:
Maokai is a terrible duelist with no escapes (aside from low cd Q knock-back/slow but it's short-ranged), his clear absolutely sucks without burning a bunch of mana. His pool is actually fairly high, but his mp5 is horrendous and his costs high (W starts at 75 mana, and his ult drains his mana extremely fast).

His cooldowns aren't reduced with levels so he kinda needs some CDR, and mana regen/pool. He's easily invaded and killed, even if you make him fight you then both fall back with high HP, if he had to use spells he's probably not going to be able to gank more than once unless he has blue buff.
Maokai doesn't really bring the damage anymore (he used to bring the cc and a modicum of damage, but he's outclassed by fighters), and thanks to the new jungle items, being able to jungle off of doran items (Lee, Aatrox, etc.) or using sightstone, he's comparatively weaker than before (eg.in season 2 when people would go double gp5 they wouldn't use the stats much better than him, but now try and go for golem spirit while some fighter with double dblades jumps you).

He sucks in 2v2 and fast clearers should be able to countergank him. Higher sustain in lane means there's more often a need to 100-0 people so the way Maokai worked (burn flashes, camp to make miss farm and either kill when too committed or gank multiple times to wear them down) isn't as effective or even possible anymore.
A bunch of popular laners (Renekton, Ahri, Zed, Syndra, etc.) are very safe too.

Underfarmed Maokai just plain dies because he needs item to survive his initiation on a single person. His ult doesn't work well with the heavy dive style currently because if he initiates/dives he won't be able to get his carries in his ult's radius to protect them from assassins, and if he has to play defensively and peel then you rely on somebody else to initiate/poke.

His damage falls off terribly. Compared to Sejuani (even pre-rework), Amumu, or the bullcrap that are Elise's and Zac's kits, Maokai is a cc bot with high mana usage, an anti-burst ult less effective than Lulu's on squishies, and long cooldowns, past the midgame.

If you can make him work he's still able to pull off good ganks, and if the enemy team relies on massive AoE damage (say Karthus+Vlad or Kennen) you can still get a good mileage out of it, but he isn't very effective versus the popular picks or playstyle.


Plus, he has a slow clear even even with stone, or madreds, heck, he is slow with both.
Freeeeeeedom
UmberBane
Profile Joined March 2013
Germany5450 Posts
November 02 2013 19:31 GMT
#1131
Hey this seems to have totally gone over my head, I'm a bit confused as to what the format is for the LCS qualifier.

I just saw this:

http://lol.gamepedia.com/North_American_Season_4_Promotion_Tournament_Qualifier_1

Does it mean Quantic is definitely not qualifying for the spring split? Or is there another qualifier round or something?
remedium
Profile Joined July 2011
United States939 Posts
November 02 2013 19:49 GMT
#1132
On November 03 2013 03:42 Alaric wrote:
Maokai is a terrible duelist with no escapes (aside from low cd Q knock-back/slow but it's short-ranged), his clear absolutely sucks without burning a bunch of mana. His pool is actually fairly high, but his mp5 is horrendous and his costs high (W starts at 75 mana, and his ult drains his mana extremely fast).

His cooldowns aren't reduced with levels so he kinda needs some CDR, and mana regen/pool. He's easily invaded and killed, even if you make him fight you then both fall back with high HP, if he had to use spells he's probably not going to be able to gank more than once unless he has blue buff.
Maokai doesn't really bring the damage anymore (he used to bring the cc and a modicum of damage, but he's outclassed by fighters), and thanks to the new jungle items, being able to jungle off of doran items (Lee, Aatrox, etc.) or using sightstone, he's comparatively weaker than before (eg.in season 2 when people would go double gp5 they wouldn't use the stats much better than him, but now try and go for golem spirit while some fighter with double dblades jumps you).

He sucks in 2v2 and fast clearers should be able to countergank him. Higher sustain in lane means there's more often a need to 100-0 people so the way Maokai worked (burn flashes, camp to make miss farm and either kill when too committed or gank multiple times to wear them down) isn't as effective or even possible anymore.
A bunch of popular laners (Renekton, Ahri, Zed, Syndra, etc.) are very safe too.

Underfarmed Maokai just plain dies because he needs item to survive his initiation on a single person. His ult doesn't work well with the heavy dive style currently because if he initiates/dives he won't be able to get his carries in his ult's radius to protect them from assassins, and if he has to play defensively and peel then you rely on somebody else to initiate/poke.

His damage falls off terribly. Compared to Sejuani (even pre-rework), Amumu, or the bullcrap that are Elise's and Zac's kits, Maokai is a cc bot with high mana usage, an anti-burst ult less effective than Lulu's on squishies, and long cooldowns, past the midgame.

If you can make him work he's still able to pull off good ganks, and if the enemy team relies on massive AoE damage (say Karthus+Vlad or Kennen) you can still get a good mileage out of it, but he isn't very effective versus the popular picks or playstyle.


1. His W is an escape if you're like SneakyDrizzle. Everyone's first clear sucks without burning a bunch of mana. That's what leashes and blue buff are for.

2. All of Maokai's core items provide CDR, so I'm not sure what your point is. Golem, Locket, FH, SV...?

A 13 second targeted root that makes Maokai untargetable is one of the best ganking skills in the entire game. His level 3 does 270 damage, without autos or red buff. Look up other jungler's level 3 damage, Maokai is right up there (Aatrox probably the highest, right around 300, assuming you hit a blood price auto - Q and E alone is around 220).

He's not easily invaded and killed at all. Maybe in a bronze vacuum where pings are distant church bells on a lazy Sunday...

3. I absolutely disagree with the 100-0 argument. To 100-0 anything, the enemy laner/jungler needs to make an egregious mistake. Maokai's W is an absolutely ridiculous skill, if you hit it a flash is almost guaranteed, if not a kill or a back. I also strongly contest any argument that a champion with two AoE skills "sucks in 2v2."

Renekton, Ahri (post 6? W makes Maokai untargetable), Zed, etc...are safe against all junglers if they don't make mistakes - suggesting that is a weakness on Maokai's part is disingenuous.

4. and 5. ...Anyone who is underfarmed is going to have issues...luckily a jungler only requires two incredibly cheap items to be effective, both of which synergize quite nicely with Maokai.

Maokai is an incredibly strong peeler. He's a very good counterpick against diving champions...which are very popular. His W/Q locks up any dive while his R provides blanket safety to your carries.


Stay positive!
Parnage
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States7414 Posts
November 02 2013 19:52 GMT
#1133
In a world where everyone seems to love diving the champions, I could see Maokai being pretty good. *shrug* I like Maokai so I am biased on the matter but I don't think he's unplayable and I think he brings alot of unique stuff to the table.
-orb- Fan. Live the Nal_rA dream. || Yordles are cool.
Fusilero
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United Kingdom50293 Posts
November 02 2013 19:59 GMT
#1134
On November 03 2013 04:31 UmberBane wrote:
Hey this seems to have totally gone over my head, I'm a bit confused as to what the format is for the LCS qualifier.

I just saw this:

http://lol.gamepedia.com/North_American_Season_4_Promotion_Tournament_Qualifier_1

Does it mean Quantic is definitely not qualifying for the spring split? Or is there another qualifier round or something?

Two qualifiers, quantic will get a second go next time.
That being said if they're losing to vVv there may be some alarm bells will need to be raised
Glorious SEA doto
SagaZ
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
France3460 Posts
November 02 2013 20:00 GMT
#1135
People think maokai sucks because he is not lee sin.
He has actual cooldowns, mana costs and can't 1v2. He also can't jump around.
He is a good jungler if you compare him to the rest of the cast. If you compare him to leesin, he sucks yes, but so does every other champion in the game.
Be nice, buy wards and don't feed double buff.
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
November 02 2013 20:04 GMT
#1136
On November 03 2013 02:13 overt wrote:
Dblade + 1 pot or longsword + 4 pot as ADC? Ugh i really didn't mind every ADC starting dblade but I guess Riot felt it was too good.

Derp math longsword + 3 pot

With lifesteal quints I think dblade and 1 pot likely better unless maybe you wanna rush vamp

Considering the hits to equal the pot regen will be 74 instead of 44, I'm(blindly) heavily leaning towards LS3.
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
November 02 2013 20:05 GMT
#1137
On November 03 2013 04:00 FinestHour wrote:
are they ever going to make custom announcers like every other moba dota arts arena5v5wizardpvp game has


it was said that it was a probability in the last ama the shop guy did.
Carrilord has arrived.
Cloud9157
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2968 Posts
November 02 2013 20:10 GMT
#1138
No reason to play Maokai when J4 and Zac do his job and then some.
"Are you absolutely sure that armor only affects the health portion of a protoss army??? That doesn't sound right to me. source?" -Some idiot
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
November 02 2013 20:15 GMT
#1139
J4 and Zac bring team DR and invulnerable frames?
It's your boy Guzma!
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
November 02 2013 20:19 GMT
#1140
On November 03 2013 05:00 SagaZ wrote:
People think maokai sucks because he is not lee sin.
He has actual cooldowns, mana costs and can't 1v2. He also can't jump around.
He is a good jungler if you compare him to the rest of the cast. If you compare him to leesin, he sucks yes, but so does every other champion in the game.

Problem with maokai is his strengths aren't strong enough to compensate for his weakness.
liftlift > tsm
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