• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 19:33
CET 01:33
KST 09:33
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns5[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 103SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-1822Weekly Cups (Dec 22-28): Classic & MaxPax win, Percival surprises3Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies3
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Weekly Cups (Dec 22-28): Classic & MaxPax win, Percival surprises Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Starcraft 2 Zerg Coach
Tourneys
SC2 AI Tournament 2026 WardiTV Winter Cup OSC Season 13 World Championship uThermal 2v2 Circuit WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes Mutation # 504 Retribution
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ I would like to say something about StarCraft Data analysis on 70 million replays Empty tournaments section on Liquipedia A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 SLON Grand Finals – Season 2
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread The Big Programming Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL+ Announced
Blogs
How do archons sleep?
8882
Psychological Factors That D…
TrAiDoS
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
StarCraft improvement
iopq
GOAT of Goats list
BisuDagger
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1193 users

[Patch 3.13] Heimer Rework General Discussion - Page 197

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 195 196 197 198 199 210 Next
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
November 19 2013 12:05 GMT
#3921
On November 19 2013 11:18 Dusty wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 19 2013 11:16 cLutZ wrote:
I actually still don't understand the Amumu nerfs.


He was pretty god damn strong, and he was nerfed in an era where there wasn't hyper-aggressive early games almost every game, before the fantastic-four (junglers) came about (Everyone remember the Xin/Vi/Hec/J4 era? such elder lizard wow)


this is at least the second post on tl recently with dogescript references wtf
Chexx
Profile Joined May 2011
Korea (South)11232 Posts
November 19 2013 12:30 GMT
#3922
On November 19 2013 12:03 Kinky wrote:
Does anyone know a site that shows what runes/masteries the Korean players use in OGN games?

My friend pointed me to http://www.tving.com/micro/lol/league/game.do?category=result but it's not updated with the most recent Winter games.

http://www.tving.com/micro/lol/league/game.do?category=rune
just got updated
WriterFollow me @TL_Chexx
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
November 19 2013 12:36 GMT
#3923
On November 19 2013 21:05 Slayer91 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 19 2013 11:18 Dusty wrote:
On November 19 2013 11:16 cLutZ wrote:
I actually still don't understand the Amumu nerfs.


He was pretty god damn strong, and he was nerfed in an era where there wasn't hyper-aggressive early games almost every game, before the fantastic-four (junglers) came about (Everyone remember the Xin/Vi/Hec/J4 era? such elder lizard wow)


this is at least the second post on tl recently with dogescript references wtf

Dusty has posted more than that recently.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Chexx
Profile Joined May 2011
Korea (South)11232 Posts
November 19 2013 14:28 GMT
#3924
Rekkles highest streamnumbers on TL :D
WriterFollow me @TL_Chexx
JonGalt
Profile Joined February 2013
Pootie too good!4331 Posts
November 19 2013 14:47 GMT
#3925
has about as many viewers as every other stream on TL combined haha
LiquidLegends StaffWho is Jon Galt?
AsmodeusXI
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States15536 Posts
November 19 2013 14:56 GMT
#3926
On November 19 2013 23:47 JonGalt wrote:
has about as many viewers as every other stream on TL combined haha


Dendi's viewers increase over his out of sheer spite.

Dendi's great tho.
WriterTL > RL. BNet: Asmodeus#1187 - LoL: DJForeclosure - Steam: asmodeusxi | www.n3rddimension.com
Fusilero
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United Kingdom50293 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-19 15:06:36
November 19 2013 15:05 GMT
#3927
On November 19 2013 23:56 AsmodeusXI wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 19 2013 23:47 JonGalt wrote:
has about as many viewers as every other stream on TL combined haha


Dendi's viewers increase over his out of sheer spite.

Dendi's great tho.

Dendi, SingSing and Dread (Russian thing idk) are the only three solo streamers that can match most league streamers. The rest like h4nni and n0tail seem to hover around 1.2k the rest of the time.
It's a shame tho, n0tail's stream is awesome.
Glorious SEA doto
AsmodeusXI
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States15536 Posts
November 19 2013 15:07 GMT
#3928
On November 20 2013 00:05 Fusilero wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 19 2013 23:56 AsmodeusXI wrote:
On November 19 2013 23:47 JonGalt wrote:
has about as many viewers as every other stream on TL combined haha


Dendi's viewers increase over his out of sheer spite.

Dendi's great tho.

Dendi, SingSing and Dread (Russian thing idk) are the only three solo streamers that can match most league streamers. The rest like h4nni and n0tail seem to hover around 1.2k the rest of the time.


That's just cuz Dendi is like Doublelift and Krepo combined plus also being one of the best. Also such a qt3.14
WriterTL > RL. BNet: Asmodeus#1187 - LoL: DJForeclosure - Steam: asmodeusxi | www.n3rddimension.com
Fusilero
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United Kingdom50293 Posts
November 19 2013 15:11 GMT
#3929
Also solo regularly broke 10k after the 322 fiasco in starladder.
Moral of the story, fix matches, get viewers.
Glorious SEA doto
JonGalt
Profile Joined February 2013
Pootie too good!4331 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-19 15:15:06
November 19 2013 15:12 GMT
#3930
http://www.ongamers.com/articles/over-32-million-fans-tuned-into-lol-season-3-world-finals/1100-151/

Dayum.

edit: I have dota 2 filtered out, I forgot about that!
LiquidLegends StaffWho is Jon Galt?
AsmodeusXI
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States15536 Posts
November 19 2013 15:17 GMT
#3931
On November 20 2013 00:12 JonGalt wrote:
http://www.ongamers.com/articles/over-32-million-fans-tuned-into-lol-season-3-world-finals/1100-151/

Dayum.

edit: I have dota 2 filtered out, I forgot about that!


Wow holy shit
WriterTL > RL. BNet: Asmodeus#1187 - LoL: DJForeclosure - Steam: asmodeusxi | www.n3rddimension.com
Tal
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
United Kingdom1017 Posts
November 19 2013 15:18 GMT
#3932
On November 19 2013 19:29 Arisen wrote:
Playing a bit on my new account that got palced into S1 after promos. Some observations that I think can help some people.

1) I think A good strategy in these levels is to ban champs people like to play but are usually HORRIBLE at. Examples include:

Lee Sin: Everyone sees bengi or some other korean jungler go on a tear with lee and make these really nice looking ganks happen. In games I've been observing, either players don't have the mechanics or (more likely) the game knowledge to make good ganks happen with lee. They waste a lot of time trying to gank unsuccessfully, have a bad score and then build glass cannon. I think if people played champs like shyvana or amumu who can just farm and be really useful with their ult and some tanky items later they would do much better in lower elos.

Kassadin: People love to Firstpick kassadin in solo q at this level as I'm observing. They don't even have to get countered, usually they just die a lot because they take a bunch of free poke in lane; decision making with their ult usually isn't great either. There are times when one will do really well and carry though, so I wouldnt want one on either team!

Zed: The amount of ults i've seen on Full HP bruisers in teamfights astounds me/

(most importantly) VAYNE: I make it a rule to always ban/ask for ban for vayne now.Bot lanes die a lot in low levels anyway because they misplay the trades, and it's too easy for your vayne to get the short end of the stick, or theirs to get a few kills and your game to become a whole lot harder. Combined with the inability to close out games vayne lategame becomes so hard to deal with and is a terror in this elo. You might get some free wins because your vayne got fed, but the times where the enemy vayne gets fed will make you want to rip your eyes out. Much easier to deal with almost any other ADC who gets fed lategame, vayne is just to slippery.



2) Almost no one trades back. If you're in this elo, make sure you don't take damage for free unless you can at all help it! A good example is Renekton versus Darius. Darius does really well versus renekton if he can land his Q's. So as renekton, you really want to bait out some Q's, then close in and trade with him. Now, if you eat a Q by mistake, I see a lot of people who will just turn and run. They take the full Q, and bleed damage and did nothing in return. Now there's a health discrepancy and he's slowly going to build on it if you eat more Q's.

What you should do, on the other hand, is immediately use your combo on him after he lands his Q and accept that you lost that trade. Maybe you took some damage, but you gave it back too (just not as efficiently). Now, his health lead is still there, but is much smaller than it was in the scenario where you run.

Alternatively the auto trades that happen a lot top lane don't really happen in the game's I've played so far. I just auto people and they don't throw one back and I slowly build a health lead and go all in. A trick you can try if you're laning melee vs melee and are having trouble here is to stand on the low health minion you know he's going to want to last hit in a moment. When he goes up to last hit you have a chance of him hitting you and gaining minion aggro. Trade him an auto and maybe an ability depending on who you are back. Works very well in my experience.

Note: I'm not advocating you going HAM and dying for free because you took some free poke; be smart about it, but in general in early laning, if he throws an auto on you you need to reciprocate unless you know why you're not.


3) Don't wait till you're almost dead to drink your health pots! I see this all the time. People start dorans pot or something, and I will whittle them down. When I check their HP to see if I can go all in with ignite I see that they are almost in the range where I can instagib them and they still haven't chugged their HP pot. Try not to clip the pot where you are drinking it too early and will take extra healing if you can help it, but if you wait that long to drink your pots, I'm going to keep bullying you and probably all in you.


4) Gap close after their escape! This is a general statement obviously, as there are situations where you want to use your gap close first (ex. I double dash W someone as renekton), but I see all kinds of people get away from stuff they shouldn't here. If you have a gap closer and the other guy has to escape, wait till he uses his to use yours if at all possible.

The classic example is lee sin. You've Q'd an enemy, and they're low, but not low enough to get instagibbed by your second Q. Wait to see if they use flash before you gap close, otherwise they can just flash after your second q and get away. Another good example is jax. So many people Q>E me as renekton when they could have walked up to me and started the E. I'm just going to stun and dash away from you, and you wasted mana on nothing. On the other hand If you save your Q untill after I use my E to run, you can then Q onto me and get the guaranteed stun off.


5) If you're ganking and you dont HAVE to open with a skill shot, don't.

[image loading]

This goes back to lee sin again. A lot of lee players will run up, throw thier Q out immediately, miss and then the guy will get away. On the other hand, if you approach the enemy like on my wonderfully drawn diagram, then use your slow (EE), then start chasing him, it's a million times easier to land a Q to finish it up because the range is shorter, and you dont have to deal with creeps blocking. I've seen a lot of bad ganks on this account, and that is probably one of the biggest reasons I see ganks fail (the other being ganking when you are too weak and can be dueled 2v1)


Ok, this is getting long, so I'll cut it out here. Hope some people in lower leagues saw this and benefit from it in some way, these are all mistakes I've made (and still make from time to time) too, and I just had to learn from making the same mistake a bunch till I figured it out because a lot of people higher up would consider them common knowledge and don't explain it a lot. Gl.


As a PS, I've seen the jungle olaf's in Korea, and I tried it and I don't think the new olaf is a drag to play, I remember the old olaf being much more fun to play, but maybe I just don't have enough experience with it yet.


Thanks a lot, these are really helpful. A lot these are things I do, and I know they're wrong (mostly afterwards), but still do them. Helpful to have someone spell it out.

I'm most guilty of using skillshots when coming in for a gank instead of saving them for when needed. I KNOW IT'S UNWISE BUT I FEEL MORE HEROIC WHEN DOING IT.
It is what you read when you don't have to that determines what you will be when you can't help it.
mr_tolkien
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
France8631 Posts
November 19 2013 15:21 GMT
#3933
Well with any hero if you can just walk up to the opponent first it's always better.
The legend of Darien lives on
mordek
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States12705 Posts
November 19 2013 15:21 GMT
#3934
One other big offender for skillshot first is J4 flag combo. No point in busting that out before they use flash/other mobility spell.
It is vanity to love what passes quickly and not to look ahead where eternal joy abides. Tiberius77 | Mordek #1881 "I took a mint!"
mr_tolkien
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
France8631 Posts
November 19 2013 15:24 GMT
#3935
On November 20 2013 00:21 mordek wrote:
One other big offender for skillshot first is J4 flag combo. No point in busting that out before they use flash/other mobility spell.

Depends. The CD is pretty incredibly low, and if you got a high damage bursty laner the CC can be enough to kill (since the knock up starts as soon as you press Q).
The legend of Darien lives on
mordek
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States12705 Posts
November 19 2013 15:27 GMT
#3936
I can see that. If your laner can hard cc it's great follow but if that's not an option I like to walk up, slow, bait out whatever movement skill then gap close/cc. Does the flag flying down queue the enemy to use their flash then?
It is vanity to love what passes quickly and not to look ahead where eternal joy abides. Tiberius77 | Mordek #1881 "I took a mint!"
nafta
Profile Joined August 2010
Bulgaria18893 Posts
November 19 2013 15:31 GMT
#3937
On November 20 2013 00:24 mr_tolkien wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 00:21 mordek wrote:
One other big offender for skillshot first is J4 flag combo. No point in busting that out before they use flash/other mobility spell.

Depends. The CD is pretty incredibly low, and if you got a high damage bursty laner the CC can be enough to kill (since the knock up starts as soon as you press Q).

No it doesn't wtf.You knockup when your champ model reaches them.
mr_tolkien
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
France8631 Posts
November 19 2013 15:33 GMT
#3938
On November 20 2013 00:31 nafta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 00:24 mr_tolkien wrote:
On November 20 2013 00:21 mordek wrote:
One other big offender for skillshot first is J4 flag combo. No point in busting that out before they use flash/other mobility spell.

Depends. The CD is pretty incredibly low, and if you got a high damage bursty laner the CC can be enough to kill (since the knock up starts as soon as you press Q).

No it doesn't wtf.You knockup when your champ model reaches them.

Oh yeah indeed. It's the damage that happens as soon as Q is cast, my bad.
The legend of Darien lives on
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
November 19 2013 16:03 GMT
#3939
The biggest part of learning jungle for me was learning not to start a gank with Q with Amumu and Lee. Once I got that into my head my winrates with Amumu skyrocketed so hard because my ganks were actually being successful more. It did get a little better with Lee but I suck so much with Lee that it still can't be helped. But yeah, walking up and slowing them with E and then using Q later when it's more opportune is pmuch the way to do it, it seems.
mr_tolkien
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
France8631 Posts
November 19 2013 16:08 GMT
#3940
Playing ranked 5s with Scip, Gunze, Nafta, Borked clock :D

http://www.twitch.tv/mr_tolkien
The legend of Darien lives on
Prev 1 195 196 197 198 199 210 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 27m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft393
elazer 240
JuggernautJason113
Nathanias 103
UpATreeSC 100
CosmosSc2 29
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 679
Shuttle 148
Dota 2
syndereN806
League of Legends
JimRising 777
C9.Mang0231
Counter-Strike
summit1g5198
fl0m1377
Foxcn156
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox227
PPMD55
Other Games
tarik_tv6628
Liquid`RaSZi1920
shahzam559
B2W.Neo207
ViBE118
Livibee65
minikerr20
Ketroc12
Models1
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick42690
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• intothetv
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 27
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22057
• WagamamaTV590
Other Games
• imaqtpie2546
• Scarra1589
• Shiphtur614
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Cup
27m
davetesta16
SOOP
3h 27m
OSC
11h 27m
OSC
1d 13h
SOOP
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
IPSL
4 days
DragOn vs Sziky
Replay Cast
5 days
Wardi Open
5 days
[ Show More ]
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-05
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
OSC Championship Season 13
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W3
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Thunderfire SC2 All-star 2025
Big Gabe Cup #3
Nations Cup 2026
Underdog Cup #3
NA Kuram Kup
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.