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On November 20 2013 03:46 .AK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 03:30 Roffles wrote:On November 20 2013 02:44 wei2coolman wrote:
21 utility shyvanna is actually stupid. Was a level above enemy solo laners at all time. Rofl. Also helped I went legendary. But, yeah. Played quite a few games last night, and kept track of jungle lvl 6 time with sololaner. If your playing fast jungler and your visiting your lanes correctly with proper jungle clear, keeping up til 6 shouldn't be hard. If you die though, that's a huge setback. Let me ask you again. What legitimate build/playstyle where you don't just tax every 2 waves in a lane will net you equal footing with midlaner? Do your mids die every other wave? Are you playing in Plastic 8? Do you get a kill every time you visit a lane? Are you playing at Styrofoam 13? Why are you posting? If you have something to say about a strategy I would advise presenting actual evidence instead of relying on your name to shit talk other posters.
if you're going 21 utility to get a few% points more xp and somehow that's supposed to account for being higher than solo laners instead of going legendary i say its a fair criticism
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United States37500 Posts
Ridicule aside, wei2coolman, you've gotta stop posting bad builds in GD and passing them off as innovative. 21 Utility Shyvana? That's like terribad tier of a suggestion.
I don't know what level you're playing at but yes, Shyvana can actually stay on par with solo lanes if she goes hardcore herbivore. But what's the point? Really.
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most farming junglers can do it easily if you are snowballing and your laners arent
people just post way too much based off personal experience off just 1 or 2 games not just wei2cool
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On November 20 2013 03:46 .AK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 03:30 Roffles wrote:On November 20 2013 02:44 wei2coolman wrote:
21 utility shyvanna is actually stupid. Was a level above enemy solo laners at all time. Rofl. Also helped I went legendary. But, yeah. Played quite a few games last night, and kept track of jungle lvl 6 time with sololaner. If your playing fast jungler and your visiting your lanes correctly with proper jungle clear, keeping up til 6 shouldn't be hard. If you die though, that's a huge setback. Let me ask you again. What legitimate build/playstyle where you don't just tax every 2 waves in a lane will net you equal footing with midlaner? Do your mids die every other wave? Are you playing in Plastic 8? Do you get a kill every time you visit a lane? Are you playing at Styrofoam 13? Why are you posting? If you have something to say about a strategy I would advise presenting actual evidence instead of relying on your name to shit talk other posters.
That's his point, the evidence wei2cool presented is a statistical anomaly. Do you think Shyvana upon going 21 into utility masteries is suddenly jettisoned into the highest level in the game, and if she goes 21 into defense she starts the game 0-5 and is the same level as a support?
Can't use hyperbole to argue a case for masteries, if wei2cool plays 10 games on Shyvana, and every game that's true, maybe he's on to something, or maybe he's playing people far below his level, but he didn't prove anything over what Roffles proved. Reading Roffles is like reading a highly sophisticated magazine, you need 2-3 reads to glean all the intricacies of his arguments.
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United States47024 Posts
Yeah it really shouldn't surprise anyone that you outlevel the solo laners if you farmed and went legendary. I'd say mastery selection is virtually irrelevant for that.
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On November 20 2013 03:30 Roffles wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 02:44 wei2coolman wrote:
21 utility shyvanna is actually stupid. Was a level above enemy solo laners at all time. Rofl. Also helped I went legendary. But, yeah. Played quite a few games last night, and kept track of jungle lvl 6 time with sololaner. If your playing fast jungler and your visiting your lanes correctly with proper jungle clear, keeping up til 6 shouldn't be hard. If you die though, that's a huge setback. Let me ask you again. What legitimate build/playstyle where you don't just tax every 2 waves in a lane will net you equal footing with midlaner? Do your mids die every other wave? Are you playing in Plastic 8? Do you get a kill every time you visit a lane? Are you playing at Styrofoam 13?
I dunno. I just get succesful gank and push wave. Or fail gank, smite away cannon minion, and push wave. At minimal all your ganks should be forcing people off their turrets. Then you shove out wave and deny xp and gold into turret. Was also talking about this with both my d1 friends about it, one whom mains jungle, they both pretty much agreed. You should be able to keep up til 6 quite easily. If you can force the 8 to 10 min dragon timing, along with taking 2nd round of buffs. You should be able to hold even til 9 or 10. This is not without xp masteries or quints. With xp masteries down utility with fast junglers, could actually pull ahead.
I was talking about 21 masteries in shyv as a solo case of how utility mastery can be good, not as evidence of jungle level timing. Was playing fizz jungle, got early first blood at lvl 3 jungle gank timing, kept up with sololaners til level 9. Running 17/13/0 masteries. Imo if you always shove after gank, keeping up with solo laner til 6 is not difficult.
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its more like roffles is the critics critic, he ridicules ideas that most people know are ridiculous but it makes him just seem like an asshole to the punter
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On November 20 2013 03:50 Zdrastochye wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 03:46 .AK wrote:On November 20 2013 03:30 Roffles wrote:On November 20 2013 02:44 wei2coolman wrote:
21 utility shyvanna is actually stupid. Was a level above enemy solo laners at all time. Rofl. Also helped I went legendary. But, yeah. Played quite a few games last night, and kept track of jungle lvl 6 time with sololaner. If your playing fast jungler and your visiting your lanes correctly with proper jungle clear, keeping up til 6 shouldn't be hard. If you die though, that's a huge setback. Let me ask you again. What legitimate build/playstyle where you don't just tax every 2 waves in a lane will net you equal footing with midlaner? Do your mids die every other wave? Are you playing in Plastic 8? Do you get a kill every time you visit a lane? Are you playing at Styrofoam 13? Why are you posting? If you have something to say about a strategy I would advise presenting actual evidence instead of relying on your name to shit talk other posters. That's his point, the evidence wei2cool presented is a statistical anomaly. Do you think Shyvana upon going 21 into utility masteries is suddenly jettisoned into the highest level in the game, and if she goes 21 into defense she starts the game 0-5 and is the same level as a support? Can't use hyperbole to argue a case for masteries, if wei2cool plays 10 games on Shyvana, and every game that's true, maybe he's on to something, or maybe he's playing people far below his level, but he didn't prove anything over what Roffles proved. Reading Roffles is like reading a highly sophisticated magazine, you need 2-3 reads to glean all the intricacies of his arguments.
I am not going to continue this because Neo will get mad but I feel there is more eloquent ways of doing what Roffles does without the need for saying someone is in plastic 13.
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Well obviously if you play a jungler with consistent AoE damage and shove the wave to tower while making sure to get the siege minion for you everytime you gank, while having your jungle for you alone when you leave the lane, you're going to overflow with exp.
But that's not jungling, that's overtaxing at this point.
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On November 20 2013 03:53 .AK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 03:50 Zdrastochye wrote:On November 20 2013 03:46 .AK wrote:On November 20 2013 03:30 Roffles wrote:On November 20 2013 02:44 wei2coolman wrote:
21 utility shyvanna is actually stupid. Was a level above enemy solo laners at all time. Rofl. Also helped I went legendary. But, yeah. Played quite a few games last night, and kept track of jungle lvl 6 time with sololaner. If your playing fast jungler and your visiting your lanes correctly with proper jungle clear, keeping up til 6 shouldn't be hard. If you die though, that's a huge setback. Let me ask you again. What legitimate build/playstyle where you don't just tax every 2 waves in a lane will net you equal footing with midlaner? Do your mids die every other wave? Are you playing in Plastic 8? Do you get a kill every time you visit a lane? Are you playing at Styrofoam 13? Why are you posting? If you have something to say about a strategy I would advise presenting actual evidence instead of relying on your name to shit talk other posters. That's his point, the evidence wei2cool presented is a statistical anomaly. Do you think Shyvana upon going 21 into utility masteries is suddenly jettisoned into the highest level in the game, and if she goes 21 into defense she starts the game 0-5 and is the same level as a support? Can't use hyperbole to argue a case for masteries, if wei2cool plays 10 games on Shyvana, and every game that's true, maybe he's on to something, or maybe he's playing people far below his level, but he didn't prove anything over what Roffles proved. Reading Roffles is like reading a highly sophisticated magazine, you need 2-3 reads to glean all the intricacies of his arguments. I am not going to continue this because Neo will get mad but I feel there is more eloquent ways of doing what Roffles does without the need for saying someone is in plastic 13.
this is, but the point isnt to be sensitive the point is to be funny
nobody goes to a standup to watch people be bland and politically correct
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United States47024 Posts
Roffles is too sophisticated to be compared to stand-up comedians.
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On November 20 2013 03:53 Alaric wrote:
Well obviously if you play a jungler with consistent AoE damage and shove the wave to tower while making sure to get the siege minion for you everytime you gank, while having your jungle for you alone when you leave the lane, you're going to overflow with exp.
But that's not jungling, that's overtaxing at this point.
Not if you shove um off wave. If the enemy wants to hang around turret at 25% health then I'm going to force the dive with minions pushed up to his turret. If he leaves he gets denied an entire wave of cs and xp. Obviously if your gank does no damage, and doesn't mess up the creep wave. You leave it alone. But for the most part shoving it out and resetting the lane wave is never a bad choice.
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why would they be 25% hp?
its not like shyvana is that amazing of a ganker that you should be able to get people low that consistently
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Baa?21242 Posts
On November 20 2013 03:59 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 03:53 Alaric wrote:
Well obviously if you play a jungler with consistent AoE damage and shove the wave to tower while making sure to get the siege minion for you everytime you gank, while having your jungle for you alone when you leave the lane, you're going to overflow with exp.
But that's not jungling, that's overtaxing at this point. Not if you shove um off wave. If the enemy wants to hang around turret at 25% health then I'm going to force the dive with minions pushed up to his turret. If he leaves he gets denied an entire wave of cs and xp. Obviously if your gank does no damage, and doesn't mess up the creep wave. You leave it alone. But for the most part shoving it out and resetting the lane wave is never a bad choice.
More likely you shove, the other guy stays at turret, you dive him, and enemy jungler swings by for a double kill cause you guys are tower diving at level 4.
What if thye're 50%? 75%? What if they are Ezreal or Lux and just press Q/Ea nd get the entire wave while standing between tier 1 and tier 2 and you can't do shit about it? What if Malzahar is farming with space aids? You just set your laner back a level by taking his farm and he's gonna get fucked when the other guy comes back a level up.
On November 20 2013 03:54 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 03:53 .AK wrote:On November 20 2013 03:50 Zdrastochye wrote:On November 20 2013 03:46 .AK wrote:On November 20 2013 03:30 Roffles wrote:On November 20 2013 02:44 wei2coolman wrote:
21 utility shyvanna is actually stupid. Was a level above enemy solo laners at all time. Rofl. Also helped I went legendary. But, yeah. Played quite a few games last night, and kept track of jungle lvl 6 time with sololaner. If your playing fast jungler and your visiting your lanes correctly with proper jungle clear, keeping up til 6 shouldn't be hard. If you die though, that's a huge setback. Let me ask you again. What legitimate build/playstyle where you don't just tax every 2 waves in a lane will net you equal footing with midlaner? Do your mids die every other wave? Are you playing in Plastic 8? Do you get a kill every time you visit a lane? Are you playing at Styrofoam 13? Why are you posting? If you have something to say about a strategy I would advise presenting actual evidence instead of relying on your name to shit talk other posters. That's his point, the evidence wei2cool presented is a statistical anomaly. Do you think Shyvana upon going 21 into utility masteries is suddenly jettisoned into the highest level in the game, and if she goes 21 into defense she starts the game 0-5 and is the same level as a support? Can't use hyperbole to argue a case for masteries, if wei2cool plays 10 games on Shyvana, and every game that's true, maybe he's on to something, or maybe he's playing people far below his level, but he didn't prove anything over what Roffles proved. Reading Roffles is like reading a highly sophisticated magazine, you need 2-3 reads to glean all the intricacies of his arguments. I am not going to continue this because Neo will get mad but I feel there is more eloquent ways of doing what Roffles does without the need for saying someone is in plastic 13. this is, but the point isnt to be sensitive the point is to be funny nobody goes to a standup to watch people be bland and politically correct
pretty sure we had this exactly same conversation like three weeks ago
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On November 20 2013 04:00 Slayer91 wrote:
why would they be 25% hp?
Because Shyvana closed the gap versus them with the extra 3% movement speed due to going 21 utility, and packed a wallop with her 9 into the offense tree, or does wei2cool go 0-9-21?
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On November 20 2013 04:02 Zdrastochye wrote:Because Shyvana closed the gap versus them with the extra 3% movement speed due to going 21 utility, and packed a wallop with her 9 into the offense tree, or does wei2cool go 0-9-21?
Or maybe the fact no one in toplane has wards at lvl 2. And that at lvl 3, shyvanna fucking hurts. It's pretty easy to fucking run behind them early on. At worst you burn a flash from them. Go back to jungle. Revisit after first back, 2nd gank going to be far more successful.
Also the utility shyv was not so much 'good' build, as it was 'lol more effective than I initially thought' after a friend kept saying how good 21 utility jungle was. He's d1 and g3. So I just tried it out.
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Baa?21242 Posts
On November 20 2013 04:08 wei2coolman wrote:
Or maybe the fact no one in toplane has wards at lvl 2.
so yeah roffles is right you're using your wood 7 experiences to try to draw conclusions about the game. i can go legendary and hit level 10 at 10 minutes jungling against people who dont know how to play too
And that at lvl 3, shyvanna fucking hurts. It's pretty easy to fucking run behind them early on. At worst you burn a flash from them. Go back to jungle. Revisit after first back, 2nd gank going to be far more successful.
what if they're not retarded tho? WHAT IF??
Also the utility shyv was not so much 'good' build,
so why did you say it was good
as it was 'lol more effective than I initially thought'
o ok ur backpedaling. dont fall off your bike.
after a friend kept saying how good 21 utility jungle was.
on jungleres not named shyvana sure
He's d1 and g3. So I just tried it out.
you can try w\e the fuck you want dont post about it here as if your experience is gospel
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I should never ever play Jax again.
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On November 20 2013 04:11 mr_tolkien wrote:
I should never ever play Jax again.
Try Udyr he has less skillshots.
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If you're assuming a level 3 gank top and the person never wards and always overextends, your strategy stops once people either a) ward b) respect the gank c) get good enough to escape the gank without burning flash or getting chunked. There are plenty of junglers who can gank top at level 3 without wards and vs an overextended lane and can get the kill. I'd even argue Shyvana could do it without going 21 utility.
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EPT
