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On November 18 2013 04:56 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2013 04:12 canikizu wrote:On November 17 2013 23:57 Tula wrote:On November 17 2013 23:14 Scip wrote:
I didn't watch the Stonewall video, but from the few I have seen he is usually wrong and very inaccurate about everything. Better to test out things yourself than believe anything he says tbh. Well the one thing you can say he has empirically tested is that master Yi in the new jungle while building wriggles runs into sustain issues and has about the same amount of gold as he had in S3. If that information is worth anything is another question entirely  All the jungle camps got buffed either in HP or damage in S4, so it's harder to clear them. And since you don't get the Wriggle up until 7,8 min with constant farm, from 1-7min, it's harder for S4 junglers to farm. The fact that by 12min, junglers still end up having 300+ gold more than S3 jungler is a positive thing. In the end of the clip, he kept saying how he dies while killing the camp at 4:00, he should read the patch note and understand the camp is way stronger than before. Isn't that with Power farm though? Really the only way things change is if the profit from ganking is significantly reduced. Otherwise the jungle will stay the same.
I don't really catch your question.
In both cases you have to power farm, and in S4, although it's harder to power farm, you still end up with more gold, so I guess mission accomplished.
If you want to carry through farming, then wriggler is your item, if you want to gank, Spirit Stone are still the best items, since they give you gold for killing and assisting. There's no best of both world. Riot obviously cannot make items that require junglers minimum jungling time and still end up having more gold than laners, that would be pretty bizarre, and if it were to happen, I don't see why you can't run double junglers and lanes are not important anymore since jungle is much safer anyway.
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Well, what I was asking was twofold:
#1. Weren't you comparing the powerfarm (aka nonexistant) scenario.
#2. When would you, given a more realistic scenario get your gold item.
Also, why does wriggles have AS on it now? Couldn't they be nice and give it a better combat stat?
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On November 18 2013 03:37 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2013 03:35 JonGalt wrote:
obviously TL, now being headquartered in EU, is going to buy the super team. TL Froggen? EDIT: watching TOO stream, starts dblade lee sin, doesn't grab lifesteal quints, doesn't gank at level 3, instead decides to full clear his jungle without a single gank try. wut.
no good lee sin player takes lifesteal quints, they go 15 ad so that with dorans blade they destroy everything with all the bonus ad
but yeah, #NAjunglerstrats
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On November 18 2013 06:39 Dusty wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2013 03:37 wei2coolman wrote:On November 18 2013 03:35 JonGalt wrote:
obviously TL, now being headquartered in EU, is going to buy the super team. TL Froggen? EDIT: watching TOO stream, starts dblade lee sin, doesn't grab lifesteal quints, doesn't gank at level 3, instead decides to full clear his jungle without a single gank try. wut. no good lee sin player takes lifesteal quints, they go 15 ad so that with dorans blade they destroy everything with all the bonus ad but yeah, #NAjunglerstrats
The first buff clear hurts without at least 2 lifesteal quints, unless you get perfect leash from duo laners. Something I would not rely on in solo queue. Either way. He just farmed jungle with his dorans blade.
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Im taking that video with a truck of salt.
Little is shown of his testing and even if you ignore his stuttering the argument presented is incoherrant and all over the place.
Only thing im taking from it is "we dont know" at least till we get the shit patched in.
Though on that note i really hope they dont do balancing inbetween phasing in the changes. For example releasing only support changes then balancing them around based on feedback before implementing the other jungle/tower/other changes.
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On November 18 2013 06:44 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2013 06:39 Dusty wrote:On November 18 2013 03:37 wei2coolman wrote:On November 18 2013 03:35 JonGalt wrote:
obviously TL, now being headquartered in EU, is going to buy the super team. TL Froggen? EDIT: watching TOO stream, starts dblade lee sin, doesn't grab lifesteal quints, doesn't gank at level 3, instead decides to full clear his jungle without a single gank try. wut. no good lee sin player takes lifesteal quints, they go 15 ad so that with dorans blade they destroy everything with all the bonus ad but yeah, #NAjunglerstrats The first buff clear hurts without at least 2 lifesteal quints, unless you get perfect leash from duo laners. Something I would not rely on in solo queue. Either way. He just farmed jungle with his dorans blade.
if the leash isnt good you can also base asap and pick up ward and 2 pots
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On November 18 2013 06:29 cLutZ wrote:
Well, what I was asking was twofold:
#1. Weren't you comparing the powerfarm (aka nonexistant) scenario.
#2. When would you, given a more realistic scenario get your gold item.
Also, why does wriggles have AS on it now? Couldn't they be nice and give it a better combat stat?
oh ok.
#1: The guy in the clip compared the powerfarm scenario, so I just point out that if that scenario were to happen, the new item, despite being shitty, still would give more gold than the old one, so it fulfill its goal. imo that scenario rarely happens, even so, I still prefer a jungler to go help out lanes early game, and by the time he get wriggler, he can start powerfarm. I don't think a jungler that starts powerfarming since level 1 is a good choice.
#2: It's obvious that the faster you get your gold item, the better. But since Wriggler scales with monster, I don't think you should desperately get it too early and ignore anything else. If math is right, at 20min, with Wriggler, you can get almost 200g for just killing Wolf and Wraith camp, and almost 150g for killing golem camp alone. So the longer the game goes, the more money he can make from jungling.
And it's weird that the guy in the video complaining about jungler not making enough money. If you go lane, by 12min, the maximum amount of gold you can get by having perfect minion kill is around 4200gold (minion kill + passive gain), and in his example, the jungler got 3900 gold ( monster kill + passive gain) so it's pretty damn close imo, and we all know that it's kind of impossible to get perfect minion kill, while farming jungle is safer and easier.
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And kiwikid support what the fuck?These changes are just so weird LOL.
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United States15536 Posts
They must have determined that it was patoy who had the Baron allergy and needed to kick him hard.
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On November 18 2013 07:41 AsmodeusXI wrote:
They must have determined that it was patoy who had the Baron allergy and needed to kick him hard.
But in one of the Dig's "listen-ins," it was Patoy who said something along the lines of: "I swear to god, if I hear anyone calling baron, you guys are off the team"
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United States15536 Posts
On November 18 2013 07:45 Apex wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2013 07:41 AsmodeusXI wrote:
They must have determined that it was patoy who had the Baron allergy and needed to kick him hard. But in one of the Dig's "listen-ins," it was Patoy who said something along the lines of: "I swear to god, if I hear anyone calling baron, you guys are off the team"
So maybe it was the opposite. Maybe patoy suggested they try NOT to die at Baron and they kicked him for heresy.
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Least of their problems in their main line up.
Scarra hasn't put a good showing in a pro game since like mid season 2. Qtpie still derps uber hard. And those are what dig considers their carry's.
Dig really lucky they're not in relegation situation.
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Keep in mind that this lineup, as stated in the article, is primarily to have a roster for the Atlantic battle. o/
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Anyone else think the elise skin is fugly?
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United States23745 Posts
KiWi said on Twitter he's just subbing, so he doesn't have the position indefinitetly. I assume they will look for a new support. Could just wait to see how fails to qualify for the LCS and poach on of the good Challenger supports.
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On November 18 2013 07:59 Vlanitak wrote:
Keep in mind that this lineup, as stated in the article, is primarily to have a roster for the Atlantic battle. o/
Honestly, to me, it seemed possible that patoy wanted to pursue something else and Dig simply didn't have time to pick out anyone but Kiwi. But if you guys actually benched patoy...wtf.
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I can't understand why a team would bench their best player.
EDIT: I guess he may want to stop playing himself
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On November 18 2013 07:29 canikizu wrote:
And it's weird that the guy in the video complaining about jungler not making enough money. If you go lane, by 12min, the maximum amount of gold you can get by having perfect minion kill is around 4200gold (minion kill + passive gain), and in his example, the jungler got 3900 gold ( monster kill + passive gain) so it's pretty damn close imo, and we all know that it's kind of impossible to get perfect minion kill, while farming jungle is safer and easier.
Yea, it needs to be much higher unless these vision changes make ganking less good by 50, 60%.
If Riot actually wants what they say they want to happen.
Also, Riot, great job on Olaf. Seems much more "balanced" now and is defiantly not going to get Re-Olaf'd in a few weeks. /sarcasmoff
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EPT
