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On November 13 2013 19:48 Slayer91 wrote:
well if you wanna goof around sure but most people go ranked and get nervous and make plans and tryhard and shit
they think of champ pools as something professional and having a array of "tools" at your disposal
its more like having different lengths of sticks instead of making 1 decent spear
the people who get bored playing the same champs are usually the same people who are stuck at the same elo because getting bored has a lot to do with not thinking and learning new things and playing a new champ forces you to learn new things and experiment while doing it with a champ you play a lot requires deeper thought and a lot of questioning of your tried and true methods
I, for one, think the best way to learn how to lane against a certain champion is to play it yourself. So your diversity helps you in many ways.
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Ehhh...playing the champ to test out the kit and such is different from playing five games of said champ then five games of another.
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i think bruce lee is correct
there are many notable players who played a few champs to get to high elo and branched out from there but i can think of none who did the reverse
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Well, hurts TL a lot in terms of numbers but hey, who cares.
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People make a direct association with ranked position and skill at the game which is far from the truth. The best way to improve rank might not be the best way to improve skill. They are related yes and they do share certain aspects but you can't assume they are the exact same. Playing a tiny hero pool may be the best way to improve rank but in order to improve you have to do additional things that may or may not intersect with improving your rank. For most people the difference isn't noticeable but when you look at the top of the ranked play it becomes obvious that there is a flaw in their play they haven't solved due to making the assumption
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Korea (South)11232 Posts
On November 14 2013 00:32 TigerKarl wrote:Well, hurts TL a lot in terms of numbers but hey, who cares.
There will be some new things for us soon(tm). Stuff like more tournaments in the event sidebar, the recent forum structure change and some more things 
We still need volunteers in particular for EU and China. If you guys have interested contact me, Neo, JBright, Moonbear, Asmo or OWB.
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PMA
or Positive Mental Attitude is a really big focus on doing better in ranked also (saying good things when team mates do good things, not bashing them for their faults) I've scene people make plat and had been stuck in silver for months because they couldn't stop harassing team mates for making a mistake. Just caused their team mates to do worse and rage. Once they stopped with the negativity their game quality improved drastically. Not saying all games are winnable, but i hope the point stands out.
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On November 14 2013 00:34 Numy wrote:
People make a direct association with ranked position and skill at the game which is far from the truth. The best way to improve rank might not be the best way to improve skill. They are related yes and they do share certain aspects but you can't assume they are the exact same. Playing a tiny hero pool may be the best way to improve rank but in order to improve you have to do additional things that may or may not intersect with improving your rank. For most people the difference isn't noticeable but when you look at the top of the ranked play it becomes obvious that there is a flaw in their play they haven't solved due to making the assumption
so what are the indicators you use for skill at the game, or maybe are you talking about things like 'game knowledge' that don't necessarily correlate to rating and have no direct indicator
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On November 14 2013 00:34 Numy wrote:
People make a direct association with ranked position and skill at the game which is far from the truth. The best way to improve rank might not be the best way to improve skill. They are related yes and they do share certain aspects but you can't assume they are the exact same. Playing a tiny hero pool may be the best way to improve rank but in order to improve you have to do additional things that may or may not intersect with improving your rank. For most people the difference isn't noticeable but when you look at the top of the ranked play it becomes obvious that there is a flaw in their play they haven't solved due to making the assumption
No, it is not at all obvious, indeed it is subtle to the extreme. Would you be so kind as to explain what those flaws would be? :3
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On November 14 2013 00:45 Scip wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2013 00:34 Numy wrote:
People make a direct association with ranked position and skill at the game which is far from the truth. The best way to improve rank might not be the best way to improve skill. They are related yes and they do share certain aspects but you can't assume they are the exact same. Playing a tiny hero pool may be the best way to improve rank but in order to improve you have to do additional things that may or may not intersect with improving your rank. For most people the difference isn't noticeable but when you look at the top of the ranked play it becomes obvious that there is a flaw in their play they haven't solved due to making the assumption No, it is not at all obvious, indeed it is subtle to the extreme. Would you be so kind as to explain what those flaws would be? :3
There is a vast number of high ranked players that have not branched out since getting to that level or if they do branch out is it to merely replace what they used in the first place instead of increasing their diversity. You could say it's just them not wanting to learn more but the number seems to indicate some flaw.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
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It is you count ability to adapt and diversify as part of skill. If not then yes you can just ignore it.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
Where do you get the idea that it is a "vast number" of high ranked players? looking at the EUW challenger soloQ league, I know about 30 people out of those 45ish, from what I've seen+played only 1 had significant problems with his champ pool being too small (LLL Kyalis) and 1 had very mild problems (RG Nardeus), the rest were never bottlenecked in tournaments by their champ pool AFAIK.
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On November 14 2013 00:37 Chexx wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2013 00:32 TigerKarl wrote:Well, hurts TL a lot in terms of numbers but hey, who cares. There will be some new things for us soon(tm). Stuff like more tournaments in the event sidebar, the recent forum structure change and some more things We still need volunteers in particular for EU and China. If you guys have interested contact me, Neo, JBright, Moonbear, Asmo or OWB.
Volunteers for what? I have some free time, and would like to help in any way that i can.
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On November 13 2013 23:32 canikizu wrote:
Bruce Lee said, "I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times."
Playing random champions once every bluemoon may make the game less boring and repeated, and may give you some new knowledge about champion mechanics and stuff, but ultimately it's not gonna help you improve much. You have to commit quite a good amount of time on the champions to actually make it worthwhile.
Except he's bruce lee and he doesn't fear anyone he's just baiting faggots to challenge him
On November 14 2013 00:00 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2013 19:48 Slayer91 wrote:
well if you wanna goof around sure but most people go ranked and get nervous and make plans and tryhard and shit
they think of champ pools as something professional and having a array of "tools" at your disposal
its more like having different lengths of sticks instead of making 1 decent spear
the people who get bored playing the same champs are usually the same people who are stuck at the same elo because getting bored has a lot to do with not thinking and learning new things and playing a new champ forces you to learn new things and experiment while doing it with a champ you play a lot requires deeper thought and a lot of questioning of your tried and true methods I, for one, think the best way to learn how to lane against a certain champion is to play it yourself. So your diversity helps you in many ways.
What division are you in
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huge post because people are wrong on the internet
who's the better player: ryan choi or a given plat with 1000+ ranked games played between some 50-odd champions and no real main?
i think some severely underestimate how much the rest of your game necessarily improves simply by playing games with other very strong players
now if the argument is that high elo one trick ponies aren't as good as versatile players of the same rating, that's defensible. but i'd put a lot of money on gbm's ability (back when he only played orianna) to crush any plat 5 player in any role with any champion
'the ability to adapt and diversify' makes it sound like there's some secret mojo to each champion that magically inhibits one's ability to play the game when playing outside one's comfort zone, which simply isn't the case (it's also a poor attempt to defend a poor position through closing the door to discussion by defining this ability as a criterion being ignored by those who disagree, because it isn't). one of the most reliable ways to become a better player is to play with other good players, and you don't learn how to be the best syndra na without learning things that translate to a better overall game. i guarantee you that every d1+ one trick pony (except maybe singed mains harhar) is as good or better a player within a single-digit number of games on any champion than anybody in gold and most plats, simply because of how champion specific skill is outweighed by vast disparity in general skill, which is the most adaptable and diversifiable skill there is.
to illustrate, look at the example of clg's current mid laner. as i recall, when link picked up the game (as link115), he mained sona because of how easy the champion was. he made it to high elo despite being completely ignorant of some of the basic mechanics of even his main champiion (not knowing how power chord passives work until something around plat). his previous wizard football experience gave him the ability to beat players who were better at their champs with superior skill in more broadly applicable mechanics and knowledge. he started adding to his champion pool once in high elo and improved his champion specific skill much more rapidly than he would have against weaker players. the link story is from a while back and i could be misattributing it, but there are similar stories of other players, such as the aforementioned ganked by mom
champion pool diversity is a valuable indicator of skill at competitive levels of play, but is hugely overrated at low rating because everybody is bad at everything there and nobody is playing their champion to potential. given that the best way to improve is to play against tougher competition, specializing in a few champions (which is much more relevant at lower ratings because of lower overall skill, meaning that champion specific skill is relatively more important), getting to 'good' elo (this is subjective and the particular bar set isn't important to the argument), and branching out from there is a more efficient way to improve ALL aspects of one's game than playing a ton of champions and not knowing how to ward a lane because nobody is doing it
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Even the simplest of champions requires extensive playtime to truly master. Once you've actually got the mechanics down, like when to trade, you gotta learn your limits, then you gotta learn your limits when you're behind, or ahead, with this runesetup when they have that runesetup or when theres more than one opponent, then it's onto the timings, what does this buy mean at 11 minutes as opposed to 14 when the other teams comp is this and that etc etc.
Compare that to six or seven games where you won or lost lane because jungler or counterpick or whatever.
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It's not so much about playing against better players, but that helps, because if you play against bad players you lose the ability to recognize effectiveness since everything works as long as you play well.
It's more that the more you play 1 champion, the less distracting factors there are, so you learn a lot more about the game in general than playing lots of champs because playing lots of champs might give you a different perspective but 90% of your attention is on how your champ plays and not how to the game plays. Once you get a high level you keep all that knowledge you learned playing less champs and can simply focus on learning new champs. If it's a different role you need a bit more but basically you might not get any better at the game but you diversify your champ pool slightly, you use everything you learned and then apply the new strengths of your champ and avoid the new weaknesses and adapt that way.
. (most pros have pretty small champ pool it just changes a lot according to "meta/fotm")
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Playing one champ all the time is overrated. You improve by playing everything too. Try to win just by playing one champion in every role, perhaps duplicating your top, mid, and jungle (eg renekton top mid and jungle) and see how much your improve in rank.
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EPT
