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On November 12 2013 00:22 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2013 00:18 Kaal wrote:On November 12 2013 00:05 Clinic wrote:On November 11 2013 23:58 Kaal wrote:On November 11 2013 23:43 WaveofShadow wrote:
In before Riot decides to rework her or some shit because she doesn't see play, like Xerath. (hint: neither of them needed anything) Cassio's only problem is items. Back in S2 when she was fotm the reason for that was because with deathcap + wota she could solo baron while her team split pushed/other stuff. She was so strong with SV because her burst damage is insane. Now that spell vamp is so much weaker and items are aimed more at the assassin-type APs, she has a lot of problems because of her low range. if cass is low range, what would you consider to be mid/long? her shortest range spell is twin fangs at 700, and noxious blast is a full 850 Well, not really range so much as cast time and positioning. She has the cast time of a dota hero on three of her spells.
No, her problem is the assassin meta. Cass is completely fine and needs no changes. She is unpopular because assassins can just jump on her with high mobility and kill her.
Yes, and a big portion of the problem with assassins is items. There are a multitude of reasons for the assassin meta. However, you said it was Cass's item options that cause her problems, which is just not true.
Honestly, the assassin meta is related to the nerfs of Aegis/Bulwark and Locket. No longer do squishies get a "free" 10 armor 30 mr, and ~500 hp on shield relatively early in the game. Eventually you still get 20 MR and the Shield if someone builds locket up, but that is usually much later in the game now after the assassin gets rolling.
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On November 12 2013 04:38 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2013 00:22 jcarlsoniv wrote:On November 12 2013 00:18 Kaal wrote:On November 12 2013 00:05 Clinic wrote:On November 11 2013 23:58 Kaal wrote:On November 11 2013 23:43 WaveofShadow wrote:
In before Riot decides to rework her or some shit because she doesn't see play, like Xerath. (hint: neither of them needed anything) Cassio's only problem is items. Back in S2 when she was fotm the reason for that was because with deathcap + wota she could solo baron while her team split pushed/other stuff. She was so strong with SV because her burst damage is insane. Now that spell vamp is so much weaker and items are aimed more at the assassin-type APs, she has a lot of problems because of her low range. if cass is low range, what would you consider to be mid/long? her shortest range spell is twin fangs at 700, and noxious blast is a full 850 Well, not really range so much as cast time and positioning. She has the cast time of a dota hero on three of her spells.
No, her problem is the assassin meta. Cass is completely fine and needs no changes. She is unpopular because assassins can just jump on her with high mobility and kill her.
Yes, and a big portion of the problem with assassins is items. There are a multitude of reasons for the assassin meta. However, you said it was Cass's item options that cause her problems, which is just not true. Honestly, the assassin meta is related to the nerfs of Aegis/Bulwark and Locket. No longer do squishies get a "free" 10 armor 30 mr, and ~500 hp on shield relatively early in the game. Eventually you still get 20 MR and the Shield if someone builds locket up, but that is usually much later in the game now after the assassin gets rolling.
It is also the S3 ease of sustain for early laning along with the nerf to boots.
It is also from the penetration changes.
As I said, a multitude of reasons.
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Baa?21244 Posts
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Damn heart of gold philostone jungle amumu #swag
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So when is riot nerfing Sivir?
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
Dayum that volibear build is some new shit
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On November 12 2013 04:38 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2013 00:22 jcarlsoniv wrote:On November 12 2013 00:18 Kaal wrote:On November 12 2013 00:05 Clinic wrote:On November 11 2013 23:58 Kaal wrote:On November 11 2013 23:43 WaveofShadow wrote:
In before Riot decides to rework her or some shit because she doesn't see play, like Xerath. (hint: neither of them needed anything) Cassio's only problem is items. Back in S2 when she was fotm the reason for that was because with deathcap + wota she could solo baron while her team split pushed/other stuff. She was so strong with SV because her burst damage is insane. Now that spell vamp is so much weaker and items are aimed more at the assassin-type APs, she has a lot of problems because of her low range. if cass is low range, what would you consider to be mid/long? her shortest range spell is twin fangs at 700, and noxious blast is a full 850 Well, not really range so much as cast time and positioning. She has the cast time of a dota hero on three of her spells.
No, her problem is the assassin meta. Cass is completely fine and needs no changes. She is unpopular because assassins can just jump on her with high mobility and kill her.
Yes, and a big portion of the problem with assassins is items. There are a multitude of reasons for the assassin meta. However, you said it was Cass's item options that cause her problems, which is just not true. Honestly, the assassin meta is related to the nerfs of Aegis/Bulwark and Locket. No longer do squishies get a "free" 10 armor 30 mr, and ~500 hp on shield relatively early in the game. Eventually you still get 20 MR and the Shield if someone builds locket up, but that is usually much later in the game now after the assassin gets rolling.
But the locket nerf wasn't the reason the assassin meta came ahead like mad. General switch of heavy tank stats to more well-rounded bruisers combined with the overall popularity of high-mobility champions just made it seem pretty obvious imo. Why would you pick someone like Cassiopeia, who relies so much on her team to do anything, while you could just pick someone like Ahri or Zed and be more independent?
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On November 12 2013 04:42 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2013 04:38 cLutZ wrote:On November 12 2013 00:22 jcarlsoniv wrote:On November 12 2013 00:18 Kaal wrote:On November 12 2013 00:05 Clinic wrote:On November 11 2013 23:58 Kaal wrote:On November 11 2013 23:43 WaveofShadow wrote:
In before Riot decides to rework her or some shit because she doesn't see play, like Xerath. (hint: neither of them needed anything) Cassio's only problem is items. Back in S2 when she was fotm the reason for that was because with deathcap + wota she could solo baron while her team split pushed/other stuff. She was so strong with SV because her burst damage is insane. Now that spell vamp is so much weaker and items are aimed more at the assassin-type APs, she has a lot of problems because of her low range. if cass is low range, what would you consider to be mid/long? her shortest range spell is twin fangs at 700, and noxious blast is a full 850 Well, not really range so much as cast time and positioning. She has the cast time of a dota hero on three of her spells.
No, her problem is the assassin meta. Cass is completely fine and needs no changes. She is unpopular because assassins can just jump on her with high mobility and kill her.
Yes, and a big portion of the problem with assassins is items. There are a multitude of reasons for the assassin meta. However, you said it was Cass's item options that cause her problems, which is just not true. Honestly, the assassin meta is related to the nerfs of Aegis/Bulwark and Locket. No longer do squishies get a "free" 10 armor 30 mr, and ~500 hp on shield relatively early in the game. Eventually you still get 20 MR and the Shield if someone builds locket up, but that is usually much later in the game now after the assassin gets rolling. It is also the S3 ease of sustain for early laning along with the nerf to boots. It is also from the penetration changes. As I said, a multitude of reasons.
I wouldn't call it an Assasin meta. Given the choice anyone would want to play champions with positioning tools. Those just happen to be assasins.
But the aegis change did change how strong burst champions were as a whole. Riot nerfed aegis thinking they wanted buying MR to be a conscious decision without thinking about the consequences. It's not like an AD carry will just pause his build to get a random negatron cloak and ninja tabi. That just doesn't happen. ADC don't have enough slots.
Riot made every squishy in the game 10%(locket)+(bulwark) easier to kill in the midgame in teamfights and expected carries to build defensively to make up for it? After spending years balancing squishies and assassins to be as strong as they were.
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On November 12 2013 04:56 Djagulingu wrote:
So when is riot nerfing Sivir?
Next patch, Q getting some dmg nerfs.
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On November 12 2013 04:59 wei2coolman wrote:Next patch, Q getting some dmg nerfs.
Honestly Q doesn't need nerfs at all. People have just forgotten that it does truckloads of damage if you try to trade in it.
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On November 12 2013 04:59 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2013 04:42 jcarlsoniv wrote:On November 12 2013 04:38 cLutZ wrote:On November 12 2013 00:22 jcarlsoniv wrote:On November 12 2013 00:18 Kaal wrote:On November 12 2013 00:05 Clinic wrote:On November 11 2013 23:58 Kaal wrote:On November 11 2013 23:43 WaveofShadow wrote:
In before Riot decides to rework her or some shit because she doesn't see play, like Xerath. (hint: neither of them needed anything) Cassio's only problem is items. Back in S2 when she was fotm the reason for that was because with deathcap + wota she could solo baron while her team split pushed/other stuff. She was so strong with SV because her burst damage is insane. Now that spell vamp is so much weaker and items are aimed more at the assassin-type APs, she has a lot of problems because of her low range. if cass is low range, what would you consider to be mid/long? her shortest range spell is twin fangs at 700, and noxious blast is a full 850 Well, not really range so much as cast time and positioning. She has the cast time of a dota hero on three of her spells.
No, her problem is the assassin meta. Cass is completely fine and needs no changes. She is unpopular because assassins can just jump on her with high mobility and kill her.
Yes, and a big portion of the problem with assassins is items. There are a multitude of reasons for the assassin meta. However, you said it was Cass's item options that cause her problems, which is just not true. Honestly, the assassin meta is related to the nerfs of Aegis/Bulwark and Locket. No longer do squishies get a "free" 10 armor 30 mr, and ~500 hp on shield relatively early in the game. Eventually you still get 20 MR and the Shield if someone builds locket up, but that is usually much later in the game now after the assassin gets rolling. It is also the S3 ease of sustain for early laning along with the nerf to boots. It is also from the penetration changes. As I said, a multitude of reasons. I wouldn't call it an Assasin meta. Given the choice anyone would want to play champions with positioning tools. Those just happen to be assasins. But the aegis change did change how strong burst champions were as a whole. Riot nerfed aegis thinking they wanted buying MR to be a conscious decision without thinking about the consequences. It's not like an AD carry will just pause his build to get a random negatron cloak and ninja tabi. That just doesn't happen. ADC don't have enough slots. Riot made every squishy in the game 10%(locket)+(bulwark) easier to kill in the midgame in teamfights and expected carries to build defensively to make up for it? After spending years balancing squishies and assassins to be as strong as they were.
I mostly agree but mabye they should, it literally won a game at worlds, when Nukeduck thought he could one shot cork, only to go all in on a Corki with a Cowl and throw a pretty decent lead for his team at the time.
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I've been thinking about imbalance of the sides and stuff.
So there used to be this MOBA called Realm of the Titans which is probably dead right now. However, it had a symmetrical map. In both of the edges of the map, there was a teleportal to the "Baron" area. So there were 2 entrances that lead to the same place. That way one team didn't have an advantage... Hmhm~
On November 12 2013 05:06 Slusher wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2013 04:59 obesechicken13 wrote:On November 12 2013 04:42 jcarlsoniv wrote:On November 12 2013 04:38 cLutZ wrote:On November 12 2013 00:22 jcarlsoniv wrote:On November 12 2013 00:18 Kaal wrote:On November 12 2013 00:05 Clinic wrote:On November 11 2013 23:58 Kaal wrote:On November 11 2013 23:43 WaveofShadow wrote:
In before Riot decides to rework her or some shit because she doesn't see play, like Xerath. (hint: neither of them needed anything) Cassio's only problem is items. Back in S2 when she was fotm the reason for that was because with deathcap + wota she could solo baron while her team split pushed/other stuff. She was so strong with SV because her burst damage is insane. Now that spell vamp is so much weaker and items are aimed more at the assassin-type APs, she has a lot of problems because of her low range. if cass is low range, what would you consider to be mid/long? her shortest range spell is twin fangs at 700, and noxious blast is a full 850 Well, not really range so much as cast time and positioning. She has the cast time of a dota hero on three of her spells.
No, her problem is the assassin meta. Cass is completely fine and needs no changes. She is unpopular because assassins can just jump on her with high mobility and kill her.
Yes, and a big portion of the problem with assassins is items. There are a multitude of reasons for the assassin meta. However, you said it was Cass's item options that cause her problems, which is just not true. Honestly, the assassin meta is related to the nerfs of Aegis/Bulwark and Locket. No longer do squishies get a "free" 10 armor 30 mr, and ~500 hp on shield relatively early in the game. Eventually you still get 20 MR and the Shield if someone builds locket up, but that is usually much later in the game now after the assassin gets rolling. It is also the S3 ease of sustain for early laning along with the nerf to boots. It is also from the penetration changes. As I said, a multitude of reasons. I wouldn't call it an Assasin meta. Given the choice anyone would want to play champions with positioning tools. Those just happen to be assasins. But the aegis change did change how strong burst champions were as a whole. Riot nerfed aegis thinking they wanted buying MR to be a conscious decision without thinking about the consequences. It's not like an AD carry will just pause his build to get a random negatron cloak and ninja tabi. That just doesn't happen. ADC don't have enough slots. Riot made every squishy in the game 10%(locket)+(bulwark) easier to kill in the midgame in teamfights and expected carries to build defensively to make up for it? After spending years balancing squishies and assassins to be as strong as they were. I mostly agree but mabye they should, it literally won a game at worlds, when Nukeduck thought he could one shot cork, only to go all in on a Corki with a Cowl and throw a pretty decent lead for his team at the time.
That's not what won the game at world's, it was Nukeduck's mistake in this case. He just can decide to not do that and the ADC deals 1440 gold less damage.
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On November 12 2013 05:07 Shikyo wrote:
I've been thinking about imbalance of the sides and stuff.
So there used to be this MOBA called Realm of the Titans which is probably dead right now. However, it had a symmetrical map. In both of the edges of the map, there was a teleportal to the "Baron" area. So there were 2 entrances that lead to the same place. That way one team didn't have an advantage... Hmhm~
if I read the impressions correctly Heros of the Storm has something like this.
@the response I mean if he didn't have a cowl, the play works it's not Corkis fault he didn't notice and killed himself for free. It also limits Fizz's options, like if he can't one shot anyone, he has to split, and if he splits Corki can 1v1 him, there is a consideration that mabye going defensive item last is too greedy, hell Genja has made a career of building conservatively.
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On November 12 2013 04:42 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2013 04:38 cLutZ wrote:On November 12 2013 00:22 jcarlsoniv wrote:On November 12 2013 00:18 Kaal wrote:On November 12 2013 00:05 Clinic wrote:On November 11 2013 23:58 Kaal wrote:On November 11 2013 23:43 WaveofShadow wrote:
In before Riot decides to rework her or some shit because she doesn't see play, like Xerath. (hint: neither of them needed anything) Cassio's only problem is items. Back in S2 when she was fotm the reason for that was because with deathcap + wota she could solo baron while her team split pushed/other stuff. She was so strong with SV because her burst damage is insane. Now that spell vamp is so much weaker and items are aimed more at the assassin-type APs, she has a lot of problems because of her low range. if cass is low range, what would you consider to be mid/long? her shortest range spell is twin fangs at 700, and noxious blast is a full 850 Well, not really range so much as cast time and positioning. She has the cast time of a dota hero on three of her spells.
No, her problem is the assassin meta. Cass is completely fine and needs no changes. She is unpopular because assassins can just jump on her with high mobility and kill her.
Yes, and a big portion of the problem with assassins is items. There are a multitude of reasons for the assassin meta. However, you said it was Cass's item options that cause her problems, which is just not true. Honestly, the assassin meta is related to the nerfs of Aegis/Bulwark and Locket. No longer do squishies get a "free" 10 armor 30 mr, and ~500 hp on shield relatively early in the game. Eventually you still get 20 MR and the Shield if someone builds locket up, but that is usually much later in the game now after the assassin gets rolling. It is also the S3 ease of sustain for early laning along with the nerf to boots. It is also from the penetration changes. As I said, a multitude of reasons.
Oh for sure those helped, but I think it realy didn't come into full bloom until the changes to how squishy champs got their defense. Karthus, TF, Jayce all were things. Now they also got nerfed, but them being much easier to kill at a Dragonfight is also a huge reason to not pick them as much anymore. Other immobile champs like MF and Lux also were pretty common in the spring.
Edit: Re Early Defense on AD Carries:
It sucks to do because of slot problems. You really dont ever want to get a defensive item before you get your IEdge, because if you do you end up sitting on a BF sword + 1600 gold for the longest time because you are running low on slots. Also, if you dont have 2 DPS + LW you tickle tanks, so there is that to worry about as well.
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when people call Cass short range they more or less mean she has to be a 700 range Turret to do damage, she can't weave in and out with burst, shes like a Ryze who can't go 3+ tank items and still do retarded damage.
on MF, I don't think MF would have stopped seeing play, even after her ult got nerfed if you could force a 5v5 easier, the version of the game played at worlds, the moment you saw a MF pick you could convert your comp to 3-1-1 or 4-1 especially since all of the popular AD/Mids being picked are good in said comps.
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those last race to challenger are getting exiting, Alex ich at 99 lp. Everyone is extremely tryhard trying to win as fast as possible and keeping track of the others diamond 1 98 lp+ with hight mmr
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On November 12 2013 05:38 SagaZ wrote:
those last race to challenger are getting exiting, Alex ich at 99 lp. Everyone is extremely tryhard trying to win as fast as possible and keeping track of the others diamond 1 98 lp+ with hight mmr
Meanwhile Turtle sits on NA Challenger with 50 smurfs.
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On November 12 2013 05:06 xes wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2013 04:59 wei2coolman wrote:On November 12 2013 04:56 Djagulingu wrote:
So when is riot nerfing Sivir? Next patch, Q getting some dmg nerfs. Honestly Q doesn't need nerfs at all. People have just forgotten that it does truckloads of damage if you try to trade in it.
Then you won't mind hearing that it isn't a big nerf.
On November 12 2013 05:39 canikizu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2013 05:38 SagaZ wrote:
those last race to challenger are getting exiting, Alex ich at 99 lp. Everyone is extremely tryhard trying to win as fast as possible and keeping track of the others diamond 1 98 lp+ with hight mmr Meanwhile Turtle sits on NA Challenger with 50 smurfs.
And he'd have another if the World's accounts didn't get deactivated.
Turtle rules NA with a trolly fist.
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NA solo queue is so sad. Watch Korean High Elo solo queue, 7-8 players in the game are all pro-players.
NA, it's a miracle of there's 3 in the same game.
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EPT
