EPT[Patch 3.13] Heimer Rework General Discussion - Page 114
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Cloud9157
United States2968 Posts
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chalice
United States1945 Posts
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On November 08 2013 16:58 Cloud9157 wrote: Wasn't Renekton picked all the time in NA LCS? You say "priority pick" which makes me think first pick, in which case, I don't recall him being that during the LCS splits. That honor went to champs like Diana and Zed. He was barely picked during the summer split. I actually don't remember seeing Diana all that much during the Summer split either. http://lol.gamepedia.com/Riot_League_Championship_Series/North_America/Season_3/Picks_and_Bans/Summer_Season http://lol.gamepedia.com/Riot_League_Championship_Series/Europe/Season_3/Picks_and_Bans/Summer_Season During spring split he (and Diana) was played a ton. | ||
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On November 08 2013 16:43 Ryuu314 wrote: ..................... you seriously ignored my entire post didn't you. let me break it down for you. again. Renekton next to no play before Worlds in NA, EU, KR. (This is my main point - go reread my posts). World Group stages: I'm gonna ignore GG.eu and Mineski games because they were, quite honestly, stompfests and any of the other teams could've beaten them with anything. Early on in the group stages, Renekton was literally only picked up in OMG's games because China loves Renekton. The croc gets picked up sparingly by other regions here and there, but is far from a staple pick, especially compared to Shen, Zac, Aatrox. Hell, Singed saw as much play as Renekton in group stages if you ignore OMG's games. World Group brackets: By this time, Renekton is being played more in part of how strong OMG is doing with him and other regions are catching on. He was still completely ignored by EU and NA teams during quarterfinals. In semis, Ozone starts showing SKT up with Jax, cementing Renekton's place in the meta. Royal v. Fnatic obviously has Renekton cause China. The rest is history. But again. My original point. RENEKTON WAS NOT A STAPLE PICK BEFORE WORLDS. I also have re-iterate the fact that Worlds stats for Renekton are skewed (at least early on) because China did very well at Worlds and China is the outlier region in terms of actually playing Renekton during the summer season. I am in no way implying Renekton wasn't a major player at Worlds and post-Worlds. Rather, Renekton was NOT a staple pick in 3 of the 4 major regions until Worlds (read: China + Jax). So you are saying that the fact that it took 1 week of playing to teams to figure out they should stop playing nerfed ZAC is the lynchpin of your argument? Considering the power of release Aatrox and ZAC its an embarrassment they werent 100% prior to worlds. I dont see how this shores up the "Renekton is not the toplane problem" argument at all. He is the problem, along with Shen. But Shen's "problem" is deeper, and less obvious to solve. Edit: Elise: Nerfed Shen: Still Part of the OP 3 ZAC:Nerfed Kenned: Nerfed Zed: Switched to mid and still permaban Rumble: Nerfed Ryze: Nerfed Nasus: Nerfed Kha6: Nerfed The summer split picks are meaningless in this context. I mean, dont you remember how everyone was being like "why patch so close to worlds"!!!? | ||
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
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Chexx
Korea (South)11232 Posts
On November 08 2013 17:29 GolemMadness wrote: Uhh, according to Lolking, Teemo is the second best top laner. Stats don't lie. just wait for Season 4 | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On November 08 2013 17:29 GolemMadness wrote: Uhh, according to Lolking, Teemo is the second best top laner. Stats don't lie. Me: sees chart on lolking of top lane win rates by matchup Copies top winrate champ on lolking Get counterpicked by like some random champion not on lolking chart lose Play horribly and feed lose Try different builds feed Ask for help feed some more le 40 games later tired of losing/getting carried/boring champ. Pick up random scrub champ not even on lolking top lane matchups chart Carry team from hell. | ||
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
On November 08 2013 17:39 obesechicken13 wrote: Me: sees chart on lolking of top lane win rates by matchup Copies top winrate champ on lolking Get counterpicked by like some random champion not on lolking chart lose Play horribly and feed lose Try different builds feed Ask for help feed some more le 40 games later tired of losing/getting carried/boring champ. Pick up random scrub champ not even on lolking top lane matchups chart Carry team from hell. ...You can't just pick a champion high up on the Lolking chart. You have to find guides for the champion on Mobafire as well. | ||
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ShaLLoW[baY]
Canada12499 Posts
On November 08 2013 17:06 chalice wrote: does the exact timing of renekton's increase in popularity really fucking matter this much? people have been arguing about such stupid bullshit recently | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On November 08 2013 17:45 FinestHour wrote: which random scrub champ not even on lolking top lane matchup chart did you pick Darius? In general my win rates in ranked do not match up with the general population. I assume this is the case with everyone. | ||
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
i get so mad every time i get counterpicked by darius or pantheon or teemo hand of noxus swag | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
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JazzVortical
Australia1825 Posts
On November 08 2013 19:00 mr_tolkien wrote: Is it me or is Sivir incredibly batshit over-the-top OP atm ? I find her pretty good actually. I don't think she is overtuned at all. | ||
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Volband
Hungary6034 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
There's no "Renekton was weak but he's a counterpick to Jax who became OP", Renekton's always been strong, especially in the 1v2 meta. But Zac, Elise and Aatrox were outright broken and there's no reason to pick or ban something that's "only" strong when you can get something broken instead. We already know that pros (and by extension soloQ) work like that: spam the shit out of the broken stuff, and when it gets nerfed to reasonable (or even just non-broken) levels, stop playing it altogether. So when Zed goes mid, Elise to the jungle, Zac gets nerfed to "only" super strong tank, and Ryze gets nerfed as soon as he starts seeing play top, you fall back to the next staple: Renekton. EU and NA respectively used a bunch of Lissandra and Rumble top, but they realised that these just wouldn't cut it at Worlds (considering the level gap, especially for TSM, Vulcun and LD, it's not surprising). After laning directly agains Sivir (albeit a retarded player, the guy managed to die to Sona+Vayne at level 3 despite being paired with Lulu and pushing), she's definitely unimpressive. If the team splits enough, or simply devotes resources to shutting her down in teamfights, she doesn't exactly have the damage to make up for it. Her spellshield helps against heavy divers and assassins who rely on a specific spell (Charm, Death Mark, or simply cc with travel time). Her pushing was buffed, though, on that once she has her BT and a few points in W if she's allowed to hit the first melee minion she should be able to kill most of the wave with the bounces, for a much lower cost than her Q. It was probably compounded by our retarded Vayne, Ezreal, Lee Sin, Kennen, Sona godlike push comp, though. Also the burst of speed from her ult helps her engage or catch people (harder to sneak in a drake before they get there, or stall them out of the pit till we kill the drake then disengage), but that's less Sivir, and more Shurelya being unaccounted for since its nerfs, so people forgot how to play against it (I told the team "if you overextend she will ult and we'll be forced to fight" and they still played Dora at times). If it was bought more, or comes back into prevalence with s4 changes, it'll reduce this specificity (also it doesn't really work for diving towers if you lack AoE hard cc anyway). On November 08 2013 15:43 Kinie wrote: So, slight random aside: Mancloud mentioned on his stream last night/this morning (around 12:25am CST) that the Janna buff to her shield (in season 4 PBE) turned Riven into some one-shotting combo machine. The thing he'd said was Janna shield and Riven with Hydra and BT and possibly LW (basically things most Riven people would build on her). Janna E gave like +100 AD, and Riven then using her R made Riven gain something like +500 AD for a few seconds, so she could literally R x 2 then dive in with Q+E and Hydra + W and Q some more and basically 1 (technically 1.5)v5 a team no contest. That's kinda what Riven already does to anyone not building a 50+ armour item by the time she hits 11, though. On November 08 2013 10:18 Gahlo wrote: Don't try and examine a champions lvl1 right now. Shit's gonna change a lot when S4 rolls around. As part of the rune restructuring they're acknowledging that the reason armor/MR runes are so prevalent is because champions are super flimsy at lvl1. Base Armor and MR on champions will be adjusted while those runes take a hit so they aren't defacto end all be all. Level 1 meant level 1 shield, so from level 2 to... 14? depending on match-up. Or more realistically till you get chalice.  So level 2 to ~5 I guess, first back. | ||
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mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
On November 08 2013 19:08 JazzVortical wrote: I find her pretty good actually. I don't think she is overtuned at all. Dunno, she's #1 winrate in every league in soloQ atm and she feels way too powerful (incredible pushing and AoE and now consistent damage outside of ult). | ||
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Looks like you really need to get off several ganks early (eg. don't even try playing him versus Lee or Jarvan or Aatrox, I only picked him because they had Sej and Swain already) and have your laners snowball because you'll stop doing shit pretty fast.
