EPT[Patch 3.13] Heimer Rework General Discussion - Page 116
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AsmodeusXI
United States15536 Posts
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The_Unseen
France1923 Posts
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Kyrie
1594 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23462 Posts
On November 08 2013 23:44 The_Unseen wrote: Wooow... That's been a load of shitposting over the last few pages, why the fuck are Renekton's birth and Trundle-tank-meant-as-a-joke so important? Are you guys bored to death or something? where there is misunderstanding, it should be replaced with clarity | ||
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Nos-
Canada12016 Posts
On November 08 2013 23:59 Slayer91 wrote: where there is misunderstanding, it should be replaced with clarity #wisdom | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23462 Posts
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
I find it incredibly weird that, despite having a super smart statistics team of PHDs and social scientists working on the problem for such a long time they decided to show their statistics in the shallowest manner possible, not even mentioning the simplest controlled variables. As a result any person could wave away the results and say "of course winning people aren't insulting each other, they're winning!" They must have controlled for something but the whole thing made it seem like they thought everyone was too stupid to notice if they didn't. I will note though that Riot's presentation is very far from the first to have annoyed me this way. | ||
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AsmodeusXI
United States15536 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23462 Posts
from personal experience people being positive generally has good results. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On November 09 2013 00:08 phyvo wrote: One random thought about old news from months ago. Remember when Riot came out with that toxicity video with all the neat graphics and statistics and stuff? I find it incredibly weird that, despite having a super smart statistics team of PHDs and social scientists working on the problem for such a long time they decided to show their statistics in the shallowest manner possible, not even mentioning the simplest controlled variables. As a result any person could wave away the results and say "of course winning people aren't insulting each other, they're winning!" They must have controlled for something but the whole thing made it seem like they thought everyone was too stupid to notice if they didn't. I will note though that Riot's presentation is very far from the first to have annoyed me this way. Facts have never gotten in the way of people ignoring truth. It's unfortunate, but being entertaining is more convincing than throwing around statistics and science. | ||
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Kyrie
1594 Posts
maybe they'll publish in a couple years and the number junkies can get their fix then | ||
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The_Unseen
France1923 Posts
On November 08 2013 23:59 Slayer91 wrote: where there is misunderstanding, it should be replaced with clarity You actually made me wet my pants a little | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
On November 08 2013 23:44 Clinic wrote: that's what i thought at first, but other high damage, low mobility mages like brand, twisted fate, and even ziggs have gone up substantially in the past week. seems like people are returning to these champs after the assassin nerfs End of season more likely.Most people stopped caring and pick suboptimal champs even though you could always play em and do well. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On November 09 2013 00:28 Clinic wrote: it's not some sort of conspiracy or incompetence, it's just that the point of the infographics etc is to tell people 'raging bad encouraging good', not to persuade people with (claimed) statistical backgrounds, which is frankly not worth the effort when people will just nitpick even harder whether or not they know what they're talking about maybe they'll publish in a couple years and the number junkies can get their fix then It's more a moral question. Is it ever right to misrepresent information in order to convince people to be better? It's not really about conspiracy or incompetence since pretty much every statistics I have seen always try to push an agenda. It seems to be so ingrained in the field. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [game summary] + I wanted to camp mid so Lux at least stayed even until the midgame teamfighting, as I expected Trundle to at least manage Renekton, and focus on bot and mid post-6 since Ahri and Leona would prob go super aggro. Trundle started losing from level 1 (dropping to half-HP from a level 2 trade welp) and promptly died to the standard timing level 3 gank, and Lux ignored that Ahri got an exp lead after my countergank (kill Lee and assist Ahri, I get a double kill but no assist for Lux) so he died less than 10s after coming back to lane when Ahri hit 6 first. After that it was hard to gank for Lux because Lee was often sitting in the mid bush (Ahri was manageable despite being a smurf, Lux loses to Ahri but Lux+Vi wrecks any Ahri all-in), while Trundle build tabi+chainvest+ruby and was still forced out of lane, without having the damage to kill Renekton through his ult before he escaped when I came. What it meant is that during the teamfighting phase Trundle didn't have the damage to at least force them to focus him (nor to dive in duo with me to kill a carry before they turned on us), while Vayne and Lux had decent farm (esp. Vayne, lost his tower early but stayed even in cs with Cait) but not enough to deal with Leona and Renekton's midgame tankiness. Unsurprisingly, Trundle isn't much "peeling" vs so many gap closers, and he didn't have the damage to help Vayne kill their divers either. In the end we had no poke, only Lux for waveclear, were reliant on Janna's ult to disengage, had not enough dive potential wihtout matching the tankiness of their Renekton/Lee/Leona frontline, so we needed to outlast their dive to let Vayne clean up. Lux not buying Void Staff and Vayne going BotRK->QSS->Triforce when Renekton had ~200 armour played a huge role too obviously, but Do you think his auto-reset and the AS from W are enough to make him a "fast pusher"? He's still a mostly aa-reliant champions in the end, like ult-less Irelia, Jax or Wukong. Sure they're pretty good at killing the turrets themselves, but when they end up having to kill 10+ minions to push I tend to think of them as "slow", especially before they get core items. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On November 09 2013 00:48 Alaric wrote: As I mentioned, we had a particularly bad draft (Trundle vs Renekton, Lux vs Ahri, Vayne-Janna vs Cait-Leona, Vi vs Lee Sin; Trundle and Janna picked when Vayne asked for "peel" vs their heavy dive comp) and the lanes went too badly to make up for it, so it heavily biases my recent Trundle experience. + Show Spoiler [game summary] + I wanted to camp mid so Lux at least stayed even until the midgame teamfighting, as I expected Trundle to at least manage Renekton, and focus on bot and mid post-6 since Ahri and Leona would prob go super aggro. Trundle started losing from level 1 (dropping to half-HP from a level 2 trade welp) and promptly died to the standard timing level 3 gank, and Lux ignored that Ahri got an exp lead after my countergank (kill Lee and assist Ahri, I get a double kill but no assist for Lux) so he died less than 10s after coming back to lane when Ahri hit 6 first. After that it was hard to gank for Lux because Lee was often sitting in the mid bush (Ahri was manageable despite being a smurf, Lux loses to Ahri but Lux+Vi wrecks any Ahri all-in), while Trundle build tabi+chainvest+ruby and was still forced out of lane, without having the damage to kill Renekton through his ult before he escaped when I came. What it meant is that during the teamfighting phase Trundle didn't have the damage to at least force them to focus him (nor to dive in duo with me to kill a carry before they turned on us), while Vayne and Lux had decent farm (esp. Vayne, lost his tower early but stayed even in cs with Cait) but not enough to deal with Leona and Renekton's midgame tankiness. Unsurprisingly, Trundle isn't much "peeling" vs so many gap closers, and he didn't have the damage to help Vayne kill their divers either. In the end we had no poke, only Lux for waveclear, were reliant on Janna's ult to disengage, had not enough dive potential wihtout matching the tankiness of their Renekton/Lee/Leona frontline, so we needed to outlast their dive to let Vayne clean up. Lux not buying Void Staff and Vayne going BotRK->QSS->Triforce when Renekton had ~200 armour played a huge role too obviously, but Do you think his auto-reset and the AS from W are enough to make him a "fast pusher"? He's still a mostly aa-reliant champions in the end, like ult-less Irelia, Jax or Wukong. Sure they're pretty good at killing the turrets themselves, but when they end up having to kill 10+ minions to push I tend to think of them as "slow", especially before they get core items. I think you'd be better off getting a BORK (or maybe a Triforce, idk) and wrecking whoever is diving Vayne in teamfights. Trundle does pretty well with offensive items that give him sticking power since you get so much free tankiness from R. The only thing that could possibly make him a fast pusher is Hydra, and it doesn't really make a ton of sense to me. Sunfire makes more sense in that regard but face it, Trundle isn't Shen, Jax, or Zed when it comes to pushing sidelanes. Edit: Oh you weren't the one playing trundle. Well whatever. | ||
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Thermia
United States866 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/grpfj4R.jpg) | ||
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AsmodeusXI
United States15536 Posts
On November 09 2013 01:33 Thermia wrote: Minigun plays league? Or is this just someone with his name that I ran into on smurf? + Show Spoiler [big ol' picture] + 50-50 toss up. I've run into Silver Leaguers named NJS Cain so... | ||
Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21248 Posts
On November 09 2013 01:40 AsmodeusXI wrote: 50-50 toss up. I've run into Silver Leaguers named NJS Cain so... think its a bit unfair to compare someone stealing the name of a really famous league player with stealing the name of some random sc2 guy | ||
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AsmodeusXI
United States15536 Posts
On November 09 2013 01:41 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: think its a bit unfair to compare someone stealing the name of a really famous league player with stealing the name of some random sc2 guy I mean, stealing names is stealing names. Just because I don't necessarily see the appeal in using Minigun's name in comparison to Cain's doesn't mean someone else doesn't. | ||
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