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On October 05 2013 00:42 Clinic wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 23:05 haroz wrote:
Does anyone else know why Irelia hasen't been brought back into professional play yet with the rise of Jax and tri-force? Jax/Irelia was THE S2 top lane back in the day :/ in season 2, the average game time was longer and 2v1 lanes were not standard, which catered to irelia's strengths top lane viability in pro play now is largely gated by splitpush/1v1 ability and early/mid teamfighting strength while being potentially starved of farm in lane due to a 2v1. consider five of the current top picks - say, renekton, vlad, singed, jax, and shen - and notice that they all do well in both respects. the one exception is that jax's ability to teamfight from behind is somewhat suspect, which is why teams running jax look for the 1v1. singed is also a bit of a special case, but he still meets the two primary criteria for top laners irelia struggles to be relevant until her first item is completed - while jax shares this weakness, he is better at playing from a deficit, particularly with regards to splitpushing it was mentioned that irelia is not played due to poor matchups - she does have a difficult matchup against renekton, but is more or less fine against most popular picks
+Jax is harder to towerdive.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
On October 05 2013 01:05 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2013 01:03 ticklishmusic wrote:On October 05 2013 01:01 wei2coolman wrote:On October 05 2013 00:33 turdburgler wrote:On October 05 2013 00:08 ticklishmusic wrote:I never thought that I'd have PrinceXizor on my side for an argument, lol. To be completely honest, I look at most champs and squint and say "I wonder if I could play this as a support?". It's a consequence of maining support I guess.  I really liked Xerath suppor--- I'm just kidding, I actually just loved Xerath. He was my first ever 6.3K IP champ. EDIT: One of the most frustrating things was when I was playing ranked 5's with my friends and I involved an Orianna. Four of us are waiting in the bush between red buff and Baron, the enemy team facechecks and I move back a couple units and hold for like half a second to land a 4 man Crescendo. It's fucking beautiful, but then my friend doesn't use Shockwave and me and Olaf just die while Ori runs away with our jungler. Would have been the sickest 3v5 ever into free Baron. :/ one day veigar support will be first pick. believe. Why veigar when you can Annie? Better jokes and laugh, duh. Also he has less mana problems because of his passive and he can get lots of free AP from his Q passive! He's a really good support I swear! That require stealing farm from you ADC. SCUMBAG SUPPORT. Show nested quote +On October 05 2013 01:04 turdburgler wrote:On October 05 2013 01:01 wei2coolman wrote:On October 05 2013 00:33 turdburgler wrote:On October 05 2013 00:08 ticklishmusic wrote:I never thought that I'd have PrinceXizor on my side for an argument, lol. To be completely honest, I look at most champs and squint and say "I wonder if I could play this as a support?". It's a consequence of maining support I guess. I really liked Xerath suppor--- I'm just kidding, I actually just loved Xerath. He was my first ever 6.3K IP champ. EDIT: One of the most frustrating things was when I was playing ranked 5's with my friends and I involved an Orianna. Four of us are waiting in the bush between red buff and Baron, the enemy team facechecks and I move back a couple units and hold for like half a second to land a 4 man Crescendo. It's fucking beautiful, but then my friend doesn't use Shockwave and me and Olaf just die while Ori runs away with our jungler. Would have been the sickest 3v5 ever into free Baron. :/ one day veigar support will be first pick. believe. Why veigar when you can Annie? longer range stun, bigger effect area. On a much longer cooldown, Annie's strength is she can throw out 2 stuns in 4 seconds. Veigar doesn't even compare.
It's about playing for the late game, the really, really, really, really late game.
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irelia fell off for a multitude of reasons.
1. Late power timing. Won't be particularly useful in early dragon fights. Unlike a renekton who rushes a giants belt&chain vest, she won't be able to dive through 4 people, kill one, and get out on minimal farm. She doesn't really ramp up until even later than Jax does.
2. Needs farm and levels very, very badly. 1v2's deny both. She generally needs one damage item to really win lane, and then at least parts of a tank item to begin teamfighting.
3. Poor splitpusher. Shitty waveclear without using a ton of mana.
With the introduction of blade, Jax is just a better pick. He scales better, is tankier, has somewhat better matchups(still gets dunked by croc), and he splitpushes better to catch up.
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On October 05 2013 01:24 Fusilero wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2013 01:05 wei2coolman wrote:On October 05 2013 01:03 ticklishmusic wrote:On October 05 2013 01:01 wei2coolman wrote:On October 05 2013 00:33 turdburgler wrote:On October 05 2013 00:08 ticklishmusic wrote:I never thought that I'd have PrinceXizor on my side for an argument, lol. To be completely honest, I look at most champs and squint and say "I wonder if I could play this as a support?". It's a consequence of maining support I guess. I really liked Xerath suppor--- I'm just kidding, I actually just loved Xerath. He was my first ever 6.3K IP champ. EDIT: One of the most frustrating things was when I was playing ranked 5's with my friends and I involved an Orianna. Four of us are waiting in the bush between red buff and Baron, the enemy team facechecks and I move back a couple units and hold for like half a second to land a 4 man Crescendo. It's fucking beautiful, but then my friend doesn't use Shockwave and me and Olaf just die while Ori runs away with our jungler. Would have been the sickest 3v5 ever into free Baron. :/ one day veigar support will be first pick. believe. Why veigar when you can Annie? Better jokes and laugh, duh. Also he has less mana problems because of his passive and he can get lots of free AP from his Q passive! He's a really good support I swear! That require stealing farm from you ADC. SCUMBAG SUPPORT. On October 05 2013 01:04 turdburgler wrote:On October 05 2013 01:01 wei2coolman wrote:On October 05 2013 00:33 turdburgler wrote:On October 05 2013 00:08 ticklishmusic wrote:I never thought that I'd have PrinceXizor on my side for an argument, lol. To be completely honest, I look at most champs and squint and say "I wonder if I could play this as a support?". It's a consequence of maining support I guess. I really liked Xerath suppor--- I'm just kidding, I actually just loved Xerath. He was my first ever 6.3K IP champ. EDIT: One of the most frustrating things was when I was playing ranked 5's with my friends and I involved an Orianna. Four of us are waiting in the bush between red buff and Baron, the enemy team facechecks and I move back a couple units and hold for like half a second to land a 4 man Crescendo. It's fucking beautiful, but then my friend doesn't use Shockwave and me and Olaf just die while Ori runs away with our jungler. Would have been the sickest 3v5 ever into free Baron. :/ one day veigar support will be first pick. believe. Why veigar when you can Annie? longer range stun, bigger effect area. On a much longer cooldown, Annie's strength is she can throw out 2 stuns in 4 seconds. Veigar doesn't even compare. It's about playing for the late game, the really, really, really, really late game.
Probably Clg.eu's secret s2 strat we never got to see.
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yall just jealous of my tiny terror
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On October 05 2013 01:05 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2013 01:04 turdburgler wrote:On October 05 2013 01:01 wei2coolman wrote:On October 05 2013 00:33 turdburgler wrote:On October 05 2013 00:08 ticklishmusic wrote:I never thought that I'd have PrinceXizor on my side for an argument, lol. To be completely honest, I look at most champs and squint and say "I wonder if I could play this as a support?". It's a consequence of maining support I guess. I really liked Xerath suppor--- I'm just kidding, I actually just loved Xerath. He was my first ever 6.3K IP champ. EDIT: One of the most frustrating things was when I was playing ranked 5's with my friends and I involved an Orianna. Four of us are waiting in the bush between red buff and Baron, the enemy team facechecks and I move back a couple units and hold for like half a second to land a 4 man Crescendo. It's fucking beautiful, but then my friend doesn't use Shockwave and me and Olaf just die while Ori runs away with our jungler. Would have been the sickest 3v5 ever into free Baron. :/ one day veigar support will be first pick. believe. Why veigar when you can Annie? longer range stun, bigger effect area. On a much longer cooldown, Annie's strength is she can throw out 2 stuns in 4 seconds. Veigar doesn't even compare.
*8
Tibbers stun -> QWE gives 3 charges -> 4s later Q gives the 4th charge -> 4s later you can Q or W for the stun.
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dem 0 cdr supports. but i still think veigar is the new meta.
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How do you not die with veigar support?What stops the opponents from just 2v2-ing you in your creep wave?
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On October 05 2013 01:51 nafta wrote:
How do you not die with veigar support?What stops the opponents from just 2v2-ing you in your creep wave?
Giant aoe stun. Lol jk. You just die.
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On October 05 2013 01:51 nafta wrote:
How do you not die with veigar support?What stops the opponents from just 2v2-ing you in your creep wave?
what, at like level 1? you just kill them.
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My favorite non-traditional supports:
Viktor (Q Max, Q or W Augment)
Jarvan
Darius
Lee Sin
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Lee sin is legit as fuck on support. you were gonna buy sightstone anyways, it's win-win!
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On October 05 2013 01:24 Amui wrote:
irelia fell off for a multitude of reasons.
1. Late power timing. Won't be particularly useful in early dragon fights. Unlike a renekton who rushes a giants belt&chain vest, she won't be able to dive through 4 people, kill one, and get out on minimal farm. She doesn't really ramp up until even later than Jax does.
2. Needs farm and levels very, very badly. 1v2's deny both. She generally needs one damage item to really win lane, and then at least parts of a tank item to begin teamfighting.
3. Poor splitpusher. Shitty waveclear without using a ton of mana.
With the introduction of blade, Jax is just a better pick. He scales better, is tankier, has somewhat better matchups(still gets dunked by croc), and he splitpushes better to catch up.
Agree and disagree. Her waveclear pre-6 is poor and mana intensive. Post-6 it ramps up significantly with a fairly low cd ulti that waveclears well by itself.
Also, the introduction of BORK is just as much a boon to Irelia as it is to Jax. Moreso I would say because of just how powerful it is and how well it synergizes with Irelia. Indeed, despite Tri buffs and BORK nerfs, it remains one of the strongest first buys on Irelia, I'd argue the best.
Also, I feel Irelia's matchups are better than Jax's. She eats Renek once she hits 9 straight up. And absolutely will even if he's moderately ahead with just a BORK. Does better early laning too with better sustain and point-click stun.
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irelia ult is low enough to use it to clear, but for split pushing, it's high enough that you can't really ult and then move to a teamfight.
Her ult actually is a pretty freaking big chunk of damage.
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I am convinced that my non-traditional Support Syndra is better than my mid Syndra.
That makes me kinda sad.
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On October 05 2013 02:25 kainzero wrote:
I am convinced that my non-traditional Support Syndra is better than my mid Syndra.
That makes me kinda sad.
Do you play as support for midlaners?
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On October 05 2013 02:25 kainzero wrote:
I am convinced that my non-traditional Support Syndra is better than my mid Syndra.
That makes me kinda sad.
Best to run Support Syndra in mid lane with another mid laner.
What ever happened to Mathies? Were we that mean to him?
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On October 05 2013 02:29 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2013 02:25 kainzero wrote:
I am convinced that my non-traditional Support Syndra is better than my mid Syndra.
That makes me kinda sad. Best to run Support Syndra in mid lane with another mid laner. What ever happened to Mathies? Were we that mean to him?
last game played 2 weeks ago. Really hard to accept that maybe you're just bad. Some kind of entitlement complex from a fair number of SC2 players who've hit masters I guess.
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On October 05 2013 02:38 Amui wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2013 02:29 Requizen wrote:On October 05 2013 02:25 kainzero wrote:
I am convinced that my non-traditional Support Syndra is better than my mid Syndra.
That makes me kinda sad. Best to run Support Syndra in mid lane with another mid laner. What ever happened to Mathies? Were we that mean to him? last game played 2 weeks ago. Really hard to accept that maybe you're just bad. Some kind of entitlement complex from a fair number of SC2 players who've hit masters I guess.
To be fair, I played a couple games with him and he did well and was overall pleasant to play with. That might have had something to do with the fact that he got Syndra mid both games and didn't have to go up against an assassin hue.
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On October 05 2013 02:21 Amui wrote:
irelia ult is low enough to use it to clear, but for split pushing, it's high enough that you can't really ult and then move to a teamfight.
Her ult actually is a pretty freaking big chunk of damage.
Agree.
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EPT
