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On October 25 2013 01:37 Slayer91 wrote:
as opposed to a flat line pool that never changes
new warmogs is okay. it was too cost efficient.
botrk is kinda silly, but its okay because it doesnt scale like the other ad items.
jungle items are okay.
champion releases are their business model, can't argue
balance has been generally improving from what i see less bat shit op stuff.
very hard to not overbuff/overnerf champs considering how many nerfs/buffs they do.
The only problem with the Triforce changes, for instance, is the timing (close to Worlds) and some ranged vs. melee usage changes.
In general, balance has been on the up and up. I will be tentatively optimistic about the S4 changes, but thus far not hearing anything absolutely horrid.
In general, most of the S3 changes have been good (or at least, better than S2) design (and what Morello as a Lead Designer will be focused on: is this item/champion/change a good design change), there have just generally just been bad numbers. Also support items.
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On October 25 2013 01:19 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2013 00:55 Ketara wrote:
What's strange to me is the people who go around calling Morello a silver league scrub but then praise the ideas of low league TLers. The hypocrisy is blatant and I wish there was a more mature level of conversation going on in the thread. not me i think tlers are wrong more often than not  how i know a hero is useless: tl gd says its good how i know a hero is good: tl gd says its bad
But what about Lucian 
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On October 25 2013 01:37 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2013 01:28 Sponkz wrote:On October 25 2013 00:55 Ketara wrote:On October 25 2013 00:09 Slayer91 wrote:
theres a difference between broad game knowledge which is like knowing why lane swaps are good and what makes x jungler good over y jungler, which most people seem to think is really important. Specific game knowledge which requires a deeper understanding of the game such as how do i play this lane, how do i play this teamfight, should i gank here etc are whats a lot more important.
similarly in bw most people think they have brilliant stratgies but dont know enough about when to build workers when to expand when to attack how many production buildings to build etc
it doesnt matter if your army comp is better if they have 2x as much stuff.
those things were listed as "mechanics" but it was 90% game knowledge and 10% moving faster by knowing exactly what you had to do and why It sounds to me like you are agreeing with me that it's possible to have a very good understanding of the game without being a high level player. I mean, if you want to think the above is impossible, you're entitled to your opinion I suppose. I'm going to stand by the statement that you are obviously and demonstrably wrong, but whatever. What's strange to me is the people who go around calling Morello a silver league scrub but then praise the ideas of low league TLers. The hypocrisy is blatant and I wish there was a more mature level of conversation going on in the thread. Abit unrelated to Morello, but you also gotta remember that most of the commentators are at a pretty decent level which also supports how they analyze the LCS games. It´s not that hard to see, that being at a higher level gives you a better understanding of the game as a whole. If Rivington is anywhere above S5, I call bullshit.
He's Gold V.
In general, people greatly underestimate how difficult it is to shoutcast, and I greatly respect anyone who can do it well or even decently. I recorded myself trying once for kicks. Instant delete. Was so fail.
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Baa?21247 Posts
On October 25 2013 01:44 GhandiEAGLE wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2013 01:19 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On October 25 2013 00:55 Ketara wrote:
What's strange to me is the people who go around calling Morello a silver league scrub but then praise the ideas of low league TLers. The hypocrisy is blatant and I wish there was a more mature level of conversation going on in the thread. not me i think tlers are wrong more often than not how i know a hero is useless: tl gd says its good how i know a hero is good: tl gd says its bad But what about Lucian
did tl say he was good or bad? cause he's good pretty sure tl said he was worthless on release
if tl said lucian was good, it just lends weight to the old adage "a broken clock is right twice a day" do ho ho
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On October 25 2013 01:48 Lord Tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2013 01:37 Gahlo wrote:On October 25 2013 01:28 Sponkz wrote:On October 25 2013 00:55 Ketara wrote:On October 25 2013 00:09 Slayer91 wrote:
theres a difference between broad game knowledge which is like knowing why lane swaps are good and what makes x jungler good over y jungler, which most people seem to think is really important. Specific game knowledge which requires a deeper understanding of the game such as how do i play this lane, how do i play this teamfight, should i gank here etc are whats a lot more important.
similarly in bw most people think they have brilliant stratgies but dont know enough about when to build workers when to expand when to attack how many production buildings to build etc
it doesnt matter if your army comp is better if they have 2x as much stuff.
those things were listed as "mechanics" but it was 90% game knowledge and 10% moving faster by knowing exactly what you had to do and why It sounds to me like you are agreeing with me that it's possible to have a very good understanding of the game without being a high level player. I mean, if you want to think the above is impossible, you're entitled to your opinion I suppose. I'm going to stand by the statement that you are obviously and demonstrably wrong, but whatever. What's strange to me is the people who go around calling Morello a silver league scrub but then praise the ideas of low league TLers. The hypocrisy is blatant and I wish there was a more mature level of conversation going on in the thread. Abit unrelated to Morello, but you also gotta remember that most of the commentators are at a pretty decent level which also supports how they analyze the LCS games. It´s not that hard to see, that being at a higher level gives you a better understanding of the game as a whole. If Rivington is anywhere above S5, I call bullshit. He's Gold V. In general, people greatly underestimate how difficult it is to shoutcast, and I greatly respect anyone who can do it well or even decently. I recorded myself trying once for kicks. Instant delete. Was so fail.
Gold V the new Silver V. You´re both right
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you are talking about knowledge relevant for game design and knowledge relevant to playing the game
they are in different categories
you guys seem to want to argue you can be bad and still understand the game but you cant design the game if you are silver
i think its the opposite
game design and game play are a different set of skills
people who designed bw might have been good designers but they were terrible at bw
if someone is bad then they dont understand the game
however it doesnt mean they dont understand a good way to design the game and set up good gameplay
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On October 25 2013 01:48 Lord Tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2013 01:37 Gahlo wrote:On October 25 2013 01:28 Sponkz wrote:On October 25 2013 00:55 Ketara wrote:On October 25 2013 00:09 Slayer91 wrote:
theres a difference between broad game knowledge which is like knowing why lane swaps are good and what makes x jungler good over y jungler, which most people seem to think is really important. Specific game knowledge which requires a deeper understanding of the game such as how do i play this lane, how do i play this teamfight, should i gank here etc are whats a lot more important.
similarly in bw most people think they have brilliant stratgies but dont know enough about when to build workers when to expand when to attack how many production buildings to build etc
it doesnt matter if your army comp is better if they have 2x as much stuff.
those things were listed as "mechanics" but it was 90% game knowledge and 10% moving faster by knowing exactly what you had to do and why It sounds to me like you are agreeing with me that it's possible to have a very good understanding of the game without being a high level player. I mean, if you want to think the above is impossible, you're entitled to your opinion I suppose. I'm going to stand by the statement that you are obviously and demonstrably wrong, but whatever. What's strange to me is the people who go around calling Morello a silver league scrub but then praise the ideas of low league TLers. The hypocrisy is blatant and I wish there was a more mature level of conversation going on in the thread. Abit unrelated to Morello, but you also gotta remember that most of the commentators are at a pretty decent level which also supports how they analyze the LCS games. It´s not that hard to see, that being at a higher level gives you a better understanding of the game as a whole. If Rivington is anywhere above S5, I call bullshit. He's Gold V. In general, people greatly underestimate how difficult it is to shoutcast, and I greatly respect anyone who can do it well or even decently. I recorded myself trying once for kicks. Instant delete. Was so fail.
It is quite hard. Riv isn't the best caster, I think he tries a little too hard to create an identity in casting instead of just casting well. He is, however, a very good host, as he showed at the analyst table during worlds.
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On October 25 2013 02:05 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2013 01:48 Lord Tolkien wrote:On October 25 2013 01:37 Gahlo wrote:On October 25 2013 01:28 Sponkz wrote:On October 25 2013 00:55 Ketara wrote:On October 25 2013 00:09 Slayer91 wrote:
theres a difference between broad game knowledge which is like knowing why lane swaps are good and what makes x jungler good over y jungler, which most people seem to think is really important. Specific game knowledge which requires a deeper understanding of the game such as how do i play this lane, how do i play this teamfight, should i gank here etc are whats a lot more important.
similarly in bw most people think they have brilliant stratgies but dont know enough about when to build workers when to expand when to attack how many production buildings to build etc
it doesnt matter if your army comp is better if they have 2x as much stuff.
those things were listed as "mechanics" but it was 90% game knowledge and 10% moving faster by knowing exactly what you had to do and why It sounds to me like you are agreeing with me that it's possible to have a very good understanding of the game without being a high level player. I mean, if you want to think the above is impossible, you're entitled to your opinion I suppose. I'm going to stand by the statement that you are obviously and demonstrably wrong, but whatever. What's strange to me is the people who go around calling Morello a silver league scrub but then praise the ideas of low league TLers. The hypocrisy is blatant and I wish there was a more mature level of conversation going on in the thread. Abit unrelated to Morello, but you also gotta remember that most of the commentators are at a pretty decent level which also supports how they analyze the LCS games. It´s not that hard to see, that being at a higher level gives you a better understanding of the game as a whole. If Rivington is anywhere above S5, I call bullshit. He's Gold V. In general, people greatly underestimate how difficult it is to shoutcast, and I greatly respect anyone who can do it well or even decently. I recorded myself trying once for kicks. Instant delete. Was so fail. It is quite hard. Riv isn't the best caster, I think he tries a little too hard to create an identity in casting instead of just casting well. He is, however, a very good host, as he showed at the analyst table during worlds.
I think Riv is good at 2 things, one liners and having a name that is swanky as fuck. I'd kill to have been named Rivington Bisland III.
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On October 25 2013 01:52 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2013 01:44 GhandiEAGLE wrote:On October 25 2013 01:19 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On October 25 2013 00:55 Ketara wrote:
What's strange to me is the people who go around calling Morello a silver league scrub but then praise the ideas of low league TLers. The hypocrisy is blatant and I wish there was a more mature level of conversation going on in the thread. not me i think tlers are wrong more often than not how i know a hero is useless: tl gd says its good how i know a hero is good: tl gd says its bad But what about Lucian did tl say he was good or bad? cause he's good pretty sure tl said he was worthless on release if tl said lucian was good, it just lends weight to the old adage "a broken clock is right twice a day" do ho ho
90% of TL says he's uber shit
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On October 25 2013 02:09 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2013 02:02 Slayer91 wrote:
you are talking about knowledge relevant for game design and knowledge relevant to playing the game
they are in different categories
you guys seem to want to argue you can be bad and still understand the game but you cant design the game if you are silver
i think its the opposite
game design and game play are a different set of skills
people who designed bw might have been good designers but they were terrible at bw
if someone is bad then they dont understand the game
however it doesnt mean they dont understand a good way to design the game and set up good gameplay WHAT???????????????????????????????? Thats exactly my point. And thats why yango was a good example. Because he's not diamond but has great understanding. And therefore why morello being silver has no impact on him being able to balance and so on. If you agree with this stop disagreement. That's why your arguements don't make sense to me because they are saying the samething I am so I couldn't figure out how they were proving what I thought was your point, LOL Basically you are 100% agreeing with me. You apparently just didn't understand my point or Ketara's, the irony is in your second post you said I don't understand you in a condesending way, which though some one true, it funny because you clearly missed my point entirely. So lets move on.
you arent differentiating between understanding the game and understanding game design. If someone suggests a champion of a strategy and he's a gold player you can probably pick out things which he doesnt get right because he doesnt understand the game very well
the same person could argue for why you should change the jungle this way or that to promote play and have a much better esitimation (but again you can get things wrong from getting the wrong conclusions from your own experience)
the only reason i said you and ketera didnt understand was because you kept saying im agreeing with you and i am onsome points (the argument that morello sucks because he's silver) but not all
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Teut is one post away.
Brace yourselves.
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On October 25 2013 02:13 GhandiEAGLE wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2013 01:52 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On October 25 2013 01:44 GhandiEAGLE wrote:On October 25 2013 01:19 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On October 25 2013 00:55 Ketara wrote:
What's strange to me is the people who go around calling Morello a silver league scrub but then praise the ideas of low league TLers. The hypocrisy is blatant and I wish there was a more mature level of conversation going on in the thread. not me i think tlers are wrong more often than not how i know a hero is useless: tl gd says its good how i know a hero is good: tl gd says its bad But what about Lucian did tl say he was good or bad? cause he's good pretty sure tl said he was worthless on release if tl said lucian was good, it just lends weight to the old adage "a broken clock is right twice a day" do ho ho 90% of TL says he's uber shit
It's not like he got mana regen buff, or mana costs buff since release.
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On October 25 2013 02:13 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2013 02:05 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 25 2013 01:48 Lord Tolkien wrote:On October 25 2013 01:37 Gahlo wrote:On October 25 2013 01:28 Sponkz wrote:On October 25 2013 00:55 Ketara wrote:On October 25 2013 00:09 Slayer91 wrote:
theres a difference between broad game knowledge which is like knowing why lane swaps are good and what makes x jungler good over y jungler, which most people seem to think is really important. Specific game knowledge which requires a deeper understanding of the game such as how do i play this lane, how do i play this teamfight, should i gank here etc are whats a lot more important.
similarly in bw most people think they have brilliant stratgies but dont know enough about when to build workers when to expand when to attack how many production buildings to build etc
it doesnt matter if your army comp is better if they have 2x as much stuff.
those things were listed as "mechanics" but it was 90% game knowledge and 10% moving faster by knowing exactly what you had to do and why It sounds to me like you are agreeing with me that it's possible to have a very good understanding of the game without being a high level player. I mean, if you want to think the above is impossible, you're entitled to your opinion I suppose. I'm going to stand by the statement that you are obviously and demonstrably wrong, but whatever. What's strange to me is the people who go around calling Morello a silver league scrub but then praise the ideas of low league TLers. The hypocrisy is blatant and I wish there was a more mature level of conversation going on in the thread. Abit unrelated to Morello, but you also gotta remember that most of the commentators are at a pretty decent level which also supports how they analyze the LCS games. It´s not that hard to see, that being at a higher level gives you a better understanding of the game as a whole. If Rivington is anywhere above S5, I call bullshit. He's Gold V. In general, people greatly underestimate how difficult it is to shoutcast, and I greatly respect anyone who can do it well or even decently. I recorded myself trying once for kicks. Instant delete. Was so fail. It is quite hard. Riv isn't the best caster, I think he tries a little too hard to create an identity in casting instead of just casting well. He is, however, a very good host, as he showed at the analyst table during worlds. I think Riv is good at 2 things, one liners and having a name that is swanky as fuck. I'd kill to have been named Rivington Bisland III.
mmm having a suffix is pretty badass ;P
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On October 25 2013 02:14 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Teut is one post away.
Brace yourselves.
for what?
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On October 25 2013 02:15 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2013 02:14 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Teut is one post away.
Brace yourselves. for what?
I expected nothing less.
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On October 25 2013 02:15 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2013 02:13 GhandiEAGLE wrote:On October 25 2013 01:52 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On October 25 2013 01:44 GhandiEAGLE wrote:On October 25 2013 01:19 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On October 25 2013 00:55 Ketara wrote:
What's strange to me is the people who go around calling Morello a silver league scrub but then praise the ideas of low league TLers. The hypocrisy is blatant and I wish there was a more mature level of conversation going on in the thread. not me i think tlers are wrong more often than not how i know a hero is useless: tl gd says its good how i know a hero is good: tl gd says its bad But what about Lucian did tl say he was good or bad? cause he's good pretty sure tl said he was worthless on release if tl said lucian was good, it just lends weight to the old adage "a broken clock is right twice a day" do ho ho 90% of TL says he's uber shit It's not like he got mana regen buff, or mana costs buff since release.
Mana costs got NERFED, mate
On October 25 2013 02:16 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2013 02:15 Slayer91 wrote:On October 25 2013 02:14 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Teut is one post away.
Brace yourselves. for what? I expected nothing less.
There's a bit of silent pride there.
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On October 25 2013 02:15 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2013 02:14 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Teut is one post away.
Brace yourselves. for what?
Talk about a letdown.
On October 25 2013 02:16 GhandiEAGLE wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2013 02:15 wei2coolman wrote:On October 25 2013 02:13 GhandiEAGLE wrote:On October 25 2013 01:52 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On October 25 2013 01:44 GhandiEAGLE wrote:On October 25 2013 01:19 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On October 25 2013 00:55 Ketara wrote:
What's strange to me is the people who go around calling Morello a silver league scrub but then praise the ideas of low league TLers. The hypocrisy is blatant and I wish there was a more mature level of conversation going on in the thread. not me i think tlers are wrong more often than not how i know a hero is useless: tl gd says its good how i know a hero is good: tl gd says its bad But what about Lucian did tl say he was good or bad? cause he's good pretty sure tl said he was worthless on release if tl said lucian was good, it just lends weight to the old adage "a broken clock is right twice a day" do ho ho 90% of TL says he's uber shit It's not like he got mana regen buff, or mana costs buff since release. Mana costs got NERFED, mate
Buffed, cuz it made him better.
inb4 semantic argument.
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On October 25 2013 01:30 Ketara wrote:
Being better at the game making it easier to have a better understanding of the game is a legitimate standpoint to have, and something I already mentioned.
Saying that somebody who is not good at the game cannot understand the game is ignorant and incredibly wrong. Likewise, saying that somebody who is good at the game understands the game is also ignorant and incredibly wrong.
I play with a group of friends that is in the silver/bronze range fairly frequently. I think they understand parts of the game, but they tend to have pretty big gaps in their knowledge, and its usually stuff I consider fairly trivial. For example, one of my friends buys beserkers greaves on Pantheon, even in ARAMs. I've explained to him why berserkers greaves are a poor choice on Panth frequently, and he's agreed with me. But he still feels like mercs/ninja tabi/ionians are not that much better of an investment, so he still defaults to beserkers greaves more often than not.
Another example is I have a friend who I think is quite good mechanically and has a pretty decent overall knowledge of the game. However, they have the annoying habit of never, ever wanting to die (not to an extreme extent, but they rarely die). And while this is a good trait to have to rise up out of bronze, after they reach a certain point, its more a hindrance because they don't know when being super aggressive and dying to help their team to secure an objective or team fight victory is a good thing.
The 2nd one in particular is fairly common I think, and as you advance, you have to overcome this and know when to just man up and take one for the team. But I think the concept is completely foreign to a lot of bronze/silver level players, and its absolutely critical and helps win games.
I think there's a fairly big range of players though. I've noticed I usually can predict who has the mechanical skill/knowledge to advance to gold or better, and there's a really wide range amongst my friends. Some are always going to be bronze V, some could probably hit gold without too much work if they just sat down and played a bunch of ranked games and got over their ladder anxiety/self consciousness.
I met a friend in the past 3-4 months who fits into the probably could hit gold with some work group, and they have never really played with anyone who has better than gold consistently. And they're pretty good mechanically and from a knowledge standpoint, but when I sit down and explain stuff, they often get the feeling they know absolutely nothing. Which isn't true- they know a lot, I just know a hell of a lot more than them because I've played like 1400 ranked games this season. Also they get sort of mad at me because they wish I was just being an arrogant ahole, but they know I back it up come game time hahaha.
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EPT
