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[Patch 3.12] (j/k) Jinx General Discussion - Page 278

Forum Index > LoL General
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Haiq343
Profile Joined August 2011
United States2548 Posts
October 22 2013 01:32 GMT
#5541
Lux's R is easier to use than Morg's I would say. And you get to spam that shit so the penalty for missing is minimal. (Not commenting on Lux v Morg outside of that one point).
I am enough of an artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination encircles the world. -Einstein
Amui
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada10567 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-22 01:44:50
October 22 2013 01:38 GMT
#5542
Morg's problem is cooldowns. Her DPS among mages is one of the lowest in the entire game.

I'd honestly be in favor of changing her ultimate to something rather drastically lower, like 120/80/40 so that while her early game burst(which is fine) is still fairly long CD, lategame if she survives she can potentially go in to ult again because really that's all she has, especially against today's dive heavy meta.
Porouscloud - NA LoL
turdburgler
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
England6749 Posts
October 22 2013 01:42 GMT
#5543
On October 22 2013 10:12 Haiq343 wrote:
There's also some rhetoric involved here. Think of how often Riot's design people bring up Morg's Q as an example of a spell done right, with counterplay etc that 'feels satisyfing' or w/e their buzzphrase of the month is. It is and has been their go-to for some time. You can't talk up a skill as a great success and then... change it. Just rhetorically it probably wouldn't be worth it for Riot.

Her kit is based on the assumption that her W gives her a significant pushing advantage that she can leverage either via waddling off to some other portion of the map, or by bullying safely behind the spell shield. And her ult really works best as a 'co/2ndary initiation' but she doesn't have the mobility to really keep up with either of those, and she doesn't have the burst or control to be majorly threatening in other ways. Worse still her ult demands she be in the fight, so she needs to build durability much more than other mids but doesn't get commensurate benefit from doing so.

She needs a buff, but the only thing they can fiddle with is her 'w' (e being off limits for buffs following Yango's point), which is her least 'exciting' ability. No one goes YEAH DID YOU SEE THE TIME I DROPPED A PUDDLE UNDER THAT GUY?! I'm not sure what all Riot really could do in this case.


but the core of the issue isnt really that she needs a buff, is that all the new champions need a nerf. its the same result of talking about olaf or gangplank. they arent bad champions, its just that the game they were designed for isnt being played any more. and if riot wants to get serious about stopping powercreep (and i dont believe that they do) they would nerf most of the newest champions down to morganas level, but they wont.
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
October 22 2013 01:55 GMT
#5544
On October 22 2013 10:27 LoCicero wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 22 2013 10:11 Alaric wrote:
On October 22 2013 09:47 Sufficiency wrote:
I feel Morgana is just too plain and binary, and her skill ceiling is too low. Probably any plat players can play Morgana competitively... because you know, there isn't really much you need to do.

People swoon all over Lux but Morg's skill ceiling is low—what?

They're often compared, 'cept Lux has a way lower skill floor, and Morgana's more situational and susceptible to mobility creep in general.
People still won't rush Banshee or QSS or whatever against her, so when they rely on base MR+runes her W is huge. Problem is, whereas others just want/need to hit one spell as they poke, she's got to hit a combo, and her Q, despite very strong numbers (damage, cc duration, range) is still a slow skillshot (not the particle itself, the wind-up).

Mobility made it so it's harder to make people stand in the pool (well, they're better at spreading out in general, remember Morgana got shafted because of excess popularity at the start of season 2), and it's harder to get a good ult. Power creep in general and the way builds have evolved means that RoA first isn't as doable now (it's not that weird frankly, the catalyst passive and all the stats make sense on her, it's just too disconnected from the pace of the game atm) so she's also more susceptible to poke, while stuff like new SV means her midgame WQ combo isn't as universally threatening as it was.


TL;DR: Morgana's like Galio, relegated to strong anti-dive and counter-initiation and it's not popular nor sought-out now, with the pushing and aggressive mindset. Also mobility creep.


Morgana's counter initiate isn't really that spectacular either. For instance, Gragas can press R and pretty much counter initiate better than Morg. On top of that he has high mobility, big wave clear, and has some sustain through his drink-a-brew.

Morg's passive also sucks if I'm honest. Early game it's pretty helpful, but late game it really isn't that relevant imo. I would change her W and her passive.


The worst part of her "counter initiate" is it takes too long to do that. A zed combo would be over by the time the ult does any work, and dodging Q is highly plausible.
Freeeeeeedom
Shiznick
Profile Joined December 2008
United States2200 Posts
October 22 2013 01:55 GMT
#5545
the prob w/ morg is that her damage against champs is so tied to hitting her binding that she basically has one ability instead of two, since her puddle cant do shit on its own.
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
October 22 2013 02:03 GMT
#5546
I wonder how they're going to change the mastery trees and items for the new season.
Zdrastochye
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Ivory Coast6262 Posts
October 22 2013 02:08 GMT
#5547
On October 22 2013 09:31 LoCicero wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 22 2013 09:28 Zdrastochye wrote:
There's literally nothing wrong with Morgana. You guys must be smoking crack. She's totally fine damage-wise, and it a great team fighter with her ult forcing movement away from her or just perma-stunned. Has kill potential on nearly any mid laner if Q and R are used effectively.


In what scenario would you pick Morgana over Ori? Just out of curiosity.

Edit: In what SR (or competitive) scenario would you pick Morg over Ori?


When I don't have a good champion to put ball on, because without it I'd be more liable to miss ults/only hit 1-2 people with it. With Zhoynas there's a really good chance you either force flashes, force the enemy to run, or stun quite a few people without being punished for it. Black shield is much better than Ori's shield as well vs Vi/Aatrox/Hecarim junglers, and binds are great for punishing people without committing to fighting them.
Hey! How you doin'?
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
October 22 2013 02:25 GMT
#5548
A big thing about Orianna I feel is it's hard for her to make her own plays. She's good when you're coordinated or when you've got an obvious ball champ on your team or when the enemy is really stupid, but in general she requires a second champion to do her thing.

Lux/Gragas/Morgana can all make their own plays.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
Shelke14
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada6655 Posts
October 22 2013 02:38 GMT
#5549
Something I've been noticing and probably has been explained before is the players on blue side are usually much higher ranked than purple side players. Anyone else notice this? Does riot think blue side is harder?
miicah
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia2470 Posts
October 22 2013 02:39 GMT
#5550
Disagree heavily about ori needing a good 'ball champ' to do well. Do you guys actually play her? Yes having a Zac/Malph/j4 makes it easier to get off a nice ult, but it is not that much more difficult to do without a diver.
@miicah88
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
October 22 2013 02:49 GMT
#5551
On October 22 2013 10:29 Sufficiency wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 22 2013 10:11 Alaric wrote:
On October 22 2013 09:47 Sufficiency wrote:
I feel Morgana is just too plain and binary, and her skill ceiling is too low. Probably any plat players can play Morgana competitively... because you know, there isn't really much you need to do.

People swoon all over Lux but Morg's skill ceiling is low—what?

They're often compared, 'cept Lux has a way lower skill floor, and Morgana's more situational and susceptible to mobility creep in general.
People still won't rush Banshee or QSS or whatever against her, so when they rely on base MR+runes her W is huge. Problem is, whereas others just want/need to hit one spell as they poke, she's got to hit a combo, and her Q, despite very strong numbers (damage, cc duration, range) is still a slow skillshot (not the particle itself, the wind-up).

Mobility made it so it's harder to make people stand in the pool (well, they're better at spreading out in general, remember Morgana got shafted because of excess popularity at the start of season 2), and it's harder to get a good ult. Power creep in general and the way builds have evolved means that RoA first isn't as doable now (it's not that weird frankly, the catalyst passive and all the stats make sense on her, it's just too disconnected from the pace of the game atm) so she's also more susceptible to poke, while stuff like new SV means her midgame WQ combo isn't as universally threatening as it was.


TL;DR: Morgana's like Galio, relegated to strong anti-dive and counter-initiation and it's not popular nor sought-out now, with the pushing and aggressive mindset. Also mobility creep.


I donno. I feel Lux is a lot harder to play, because:

1. Does not have no-brainer Corrupted Soil wave clear from level 4. Laning phase not trivial.
2. Does not have (almost) no-brainer point-blank R. Teamfight not trivial.
3. Combo requires autoattacking weaved in.


Actually, Corrupted Soil is pretty awkward these days. If your opponent has a way to demolish your melee minions they can really screw up your pool placement. It used to be the most godly waveclear in the game because there were basically zero champions who could do that, but not anymore.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
LaM
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States1321 Posts
October 22 2013 02:58 GMT
#5552
On October 22 2013 11:39 miicah wrote:
Disagree heavily about ori needing a good 'ball champ' to do well. Do you guys actually play her? Yes having a Zac/Malph/j4 makes it easier to get off a nice ult, but it is not that much more difficult to do without a diver.


idk... when you get to a certain level you almost need a ball carrier. it's almost impossible to land ult on a good ad/more than 1 person with just q-r.
Anything is Possible
Ethelis
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States2397 Posts
October 22 2013 03:06 GMT
#5553
On October 22 2013 11:38 Shelke14 wrote:
Something I've been noticing and probably has been explained before is the players on blue side are usually much higher ranked than purple side players. Anyone else notice this? Does riot think blue side is harder?


Rank don't matter. MMR does and purp gets the "better team" every game.
Disabled gamer - Diamond 3 (LoL) D+ Rank scrublord on BW. Bisu doesnt need DTs, He uses probes. just ask Flash.
Maxyim
Profile Joined March 2012
430 Posts
October 22 2013 03:19 GMT
#5554
Hey guys, just got into this, currently loving me some Fiddle jung, TF mid, and Corki AD carry (alternating between these three depending on what my allies are doing). Still playing normal, just wondering how viable these champs / playstyles are in ranked. Thanks for any advice!
thenexusp
Profile Joined May 2009
United States3721 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-22 03:25:05
October 22 2013 03:22 GMT
#5555
On October 22 2013 10:42 turdburgler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 22 2013 10:12 Haiq343 wrote:
There's also some rhetoric involved here. Think of how often Riot's design people bring up Morg's Q as an example of a spell done right, with counterplay etc that 'feels satisyfing' or w/e their buzzphrase of the month is. It is and has been their go-to for some time. You can't talk up a skill as a great success and then... change it. Just rhetorically it probably wouldn't be worth it for Riot.

Her kit is based on the assumption that her W gives her a significant pushing advantage that she can leverage either via waddling off to some other portion of the map, or by bullying safely behind the spell shield. And her ult really works best as a 'co/2ndary initiation' but she doesn't have the mobility to really keep up with either of those, and she doesn't have the burst or control to be majorly threatening in other ways. Worse still her ult demands she be in the fight, so she needs to build durability much more than other mids but doesn't get commensurate benefit from doing so.

She needs a buff, but the only thing they can fiddle with is her 'w' (e being off limits for buffs following Yango's point), which is her least 'exciting' ability. No one goes YEAH DID YOU SEE THE TIME I DROPPED A PUDDLE UNDER THAT GUY?! I'm not sure what all Riot really could do in this case.


but the core of the issue isnt really that she needs a buff, is that all the new champions need a nerf. its the same result of talking about olaf or gangplank. they arent bad champions, its just that the game they were designed for isnt being played any more. and if riot wants to get serious about stopping powercreep (and i dont believe that they do) they would nerf most of the newest champions down to morganas level, but they wont.

Get your history right. Gangplank and Olaf used to be some of the most powerful champions in the game, and old Gangplank and old Olaf would still be some of the strongest champions today, but they were nerfed to oblivion because they were unfun to play against. Those two specifically being weak has nothing to do with power creep.

Morgana was also nerfed a lot in the past, due to being too strong and having little counterplay due to her free pushing and black shield.
EDIT: And also getting something like 35% free spell vamp at level 11
SpaceToaster
Profile Joined October 2010
United States289 Posts
October 22 2013 03:28 GMT
#5556
On October 22 2013 12:19 Maxyim wrote:
Hey guys, just got into this, currently loving me some Fiddle jung, TF mid, and Corki AD carry (alternating between these three depending on what my allies are doing). Still playing normal, just wondering how viable these champs / playstyles are in ranked. Thanks for any advice!


Fiddle is relevant at all levels of play, as a jungler he can be easy to disrupt but a good ult is devastating to any team, he gets played as a support more than a jungler at high levels. TF has very strong global pressure and fits into poke or splitpush comps, currently a little weak due to the assassin meta in mid lane. Corki is currently the most played ADC, though he's getting slight nerfs and triforce took some slight nerfs lately, too soon to tell how much impact they'll have.
Maxyim
Profile Joined March 2012
430 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-22 03:48:07
October 22 2013 03:40 GMT
#5557
On October 22 2013 12:28 SpaceToaster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 22 2013 12:19 Maxyim wrote:
Hey guys, just got into this, currently loving me some Fiddle jung, TF mid, and Corki AD carry (alternating between these three depending on what my allies are doing). Still playing normal, just wondering how viable these champs / playstyles are in ranked. Thanks for any advice!


Fiddle is relevant at all levels of play, as a jungler he can be easy to disrupt but a good ult is devastating to any team, he gets played as a support more than a jungler at high levels. TF has very strong global pressure and fits into poke or splitpush comps, currently a little weak due to the assassin meta in mid lane. Corki is currently the most played ADC, though he's getting slight nerfs and triforce took some slight nerfs lately, too soon to tell how much impact they'll have.


Awesome, thanks! Also looking at adding Trynd (top or jung if they have a strong counter-jungler when it comes to ranked, yeah Fiddle is super easy to mess with) into my repetoire, what do you think about that?

Also, what are your recommendations on backup mid and AD carries to train on in case TF / Corki get banned in games. Not interested in Ezregaybait, way too common imo. Maybe Ahri and Varus? Maybe Anivia as well for the lols...
GhandiEAGLE
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States20754 Posts
October 22 2013 03:46 GMT
#5558
Lucian is a solid pick.
Oh, my achin' hands, from rakin' in grands, and breakin' in mic stands
SpaceToaster
Profile Joined October 2010
United States289 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-22 03:56:50
October 22 2013 03:56 GMT
#5559
edit: double post, sry
HaruRH
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Singapore2780 Posts
October 22 2013 03:58 GMT
#5560
On October 22 2013 12:46 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Lucian is a solid pick.


I'm pretty sure this isn't the LoL joke thread.
It is fucking D4 and you are still alive as a CONFIRMED FUCKING TOWN. This is how fucking terrible scum thinks you are - Koshi
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