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On October 22 2013 08:38 turdburgler wrote:
the problem isnt her lack of damage, its her high cooldowns. if morgana was released today her w wouldnt even have half the CD it does currently. compare morgana to other control orientated mages like lissandra and its just hilarious. but you cant reduce the CD on her Q because people would spend >50% of the time snared. so they either need to redesign her E or W because right now she functions more like a support than a mage.
There's nothing wrong with playing Morgana support (against melee supports like Leo, at the very least).
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On October 22 2013 09:19 Lord Tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2013 08:38 turdburgler wrote:
the problem isnt her lack of damage, its her high cooldowns. if morgana was released today her w wouldnt even have half the CD it does currently. compare morgana to other control orientated mages like lissandra and its just hilarious. but you cant reduce the CD on her Q because people would spend >50% of the time snared. so they either need to redesign her E or W because right now she functions more like a support than a mage. There's nothing wrong with playing Morgana support (against melee supports like Leo, at the very least).
True, but her short range makes it tough. And without Zhonyas she doesn't really do her thing later on.
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There's literally nothing wrong with Morgana. You guys must be smoking crack. She's totally fine damage-wise, and it a great team fighter with her ult forcing movement away from her or just perma-stunned. Has kill potential on nearly any mid laner if Q and R are used effectively.
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On October 22 2013 09:28 Zdrastochye wrote:
There's literally nothing wrong with Morgana. You guys must be smoking crack. She's totally fine damage-wise, and it a great team fighter with her ult forcing movement away from her or just perma-stunned. Has kill potential on nearly any mid laner if Q and R are used effectively.
In what scenario would you pick Morgana over Ori? Just out of curiosity.
Edit: In what SR (or competitive) scenario would you pick Morg over Ori?
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What, I'd still pick Ori over Morg in aram by far. Morg still relies on her flash to get a good ult off, even in aram. Ori's lower cds and shockwave are even more potent with the smaller map (ori has to move the ball to get a good shockwave, morg has to move herself which is much, much more difficult). And black shield is on too high a cooldown to be that useful in aram fights.
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On October 22 2013 09:28 Zdrastochye wrote:
There's literally nothing wrong with Morgana. You guys must be smoking crack. She's totally fine damage-wise, and it a great team fighter with her ult forcing movement away from her or just perma-stunned. Has kill potential on nearly any mid laner if Q and R are used effectively.
Except, W is ineffective without Q. Some may call that synergy, i suppose.
The other real problem with morgana is her kit demands that you build Zhonyas 1st, or maybe Abyssal into Zhonyas. Some weirdos I have seen building ROA first. In any case, she can't afford to get CDR until its too late.
Edit, and people can make it hard to farm, which is lame because she doesn't have exceptional roaming or solokill potential.
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all comes down to this kids.. kennen top lane to see if i get promo'd to gold 4! LEND ME YOUR ENERGY FELLOW TL MEMBERS (DBZ ref)
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On October 22 2013 09:39 Shelke14 wrote:
all comes down to this kids.. kennen top lane to see if i get promo'd to gold 4! LEND ME YOUR ENERGY FELLOW TL MEMBERS (DBZ ref)
This guy is Captain Ginyu.
Would advise to never bet.
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I feel Morgana is just too plain and binary, and her skill ceiling is too low. Probably any plat players can play Morgana competitively... because you know, there isn't really much you need to do.
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On October 22 2013 09:38 beefhamburger wrote:
What, I'd still pick Ori over Morg in aram by far. Morg still relies on her flash to get a good ult off, even in aram. Ori's lower cds and shockwave are even more potent with the smaller map (ori has to move the ball to get a good shockwave, morg has to move herself which is much, much more difficult. And black shield is on too high a cooldown to be that useful in aram fights. imo
ranged hard cc is god mode in aram.
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On October 22 2013 09:47 Sufficiency wrote:
I feel Morgana is just too plain and binary, and her skill ceiling is too low. Probably any plat players can play Morgana competitively... because you know, there isn't really much you need to do.
People swoon all over Lux but Morg's skill ceiling is low—what?
They're often compared, 'cept Lux has a way lower skill floor, and Morgana's more situational and susceptible to mobility creep in general.
People still won't rush Banshee or QSS or whatever against her, so when they rely on base MR+runes her W is huge. Problem is, whereas others just want/need to hit one spell as they poke, she's got to hit a combo, and her Q, despite very strong numbers (damage, cc duration, range) is still a slow skillshot (not the particle itself, the wind-up).
Mobility made it so it's harder to make people stand in the pool (well, they're better at spreading out in general, remember Morgana got shafted because of excess popularity at the start of season 2), and it's harder to get a good ult. Power creep in general and the way builds have evolved means that RoA first isn't as doable now (it's not that weird frankly, the catalyst passive and all the stats make sense on her, it's just too disconnected from the pace of the game atm) so she's also more susceptible to poke, while stuff like new SV means her midgame WQ combo isn't as universally threatening as it was.
TL;DR: Morgana's like Galio, relegated to strong anti-dive and counter-initiation and it's not popular nor sought-out now, with the pushing and aggressive mindset. Also mobility creep.
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On October 22 2013 09:45 Roffles wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2013 09:39 Shelke14 wrote:
all comes down to this kids.. kennen top lane to see if i get promo'd to gold 4! LEND ME YOUR ENERGY FELLOW TL MEMBERS (DBZ ref) This guy is Captain Ginyu. Would advise to never bet.
haha carried son, gold 4! SOON diamond.
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There's also some rhetoric involved here. Think of how often Riot's design people bring up Morg's Q as an example of a spell done right, with counterplay etc that 'feels satisyfing' or w/e their buzzphrase of the month is. It is and has been their go-to for some time. You can't talk up a skill as a great success and then... change it. Just rhetorically it probably wouldn't be worth it for Riot.
Her kit is based on the assumption that her W gives her a significant pushing advantage that she can leverage either via waddling off to some other portion of the map, or by bullying safely behind the spell shield. And her ult really works best as a 'co/2ndary initiation' but she doesn't have the mobility to really keep up with either of those, and she doesn't have the burst or control to be majorly threatening in other ways. Worse still her ult demands she be in the fight, so she needs to build durability much more than other mids but doesn't get commensurate benefit from doing so.
She needs a buff, but the only thing they can fiddle with is her 'w' (e being off limits for buffs following Yango's point), which is her least 'exciting' ability. No one goes YEAH DID YOU SEE THE TIME I DROPPED A PUDDLE UNDER THAT GUY?! I'm not sure what all Riot really could do in this case.
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There's a lot planned. is it all confirmed for next patch/?
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Morgana used to be cool when there were only like 3 champs that had that level of waveclear. Now everyone and their mothers waveclers harder than morgana.
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I wonder what the distribution of win rates on Morgana is. I assume it's like 2 peaks. One side are the high win rates of people who have been playing Morg since beta. The other is the low win rates of people who picked her up after all these new champs.
Then it averages out to 50% so Riot don't give a fk.
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On October 22 2013 10:11 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2013 09:47 Sufficiency wrote:
I feel Morgana is just too plain and binary, and her skill ceiling is too low. Probably any plat players can play Morgana competitively... because you know, there isn't really much you need to do. People swoon all over Lux but Morg's skill ceiling is low—what? They're often compared, 'cept Lux has a way lower skill floor, and Morgana's more situational and susceptible to mobility creep in general. People still won't rush Banshee or QSS or whatever against her, so when they rely on base MR+runes her W is huge. Problem is, whereas others just want/need to hit one spell as they poke, she's got to hit a combo, and her Q, despite very strong numbers (damage, cc duration, range) is still a slow skillshot (not the particle itself, the wind-up). Mobility made it so it's harder to make people stand in the pool (well, they're better at spreading out in general, remember Morgana got shafted because of excess popularity at the start of season 2), and it's harder to get a good ult. Power creep in general and the way builds have evolved means that RoA first isn't as doable now (it's not that weird frankly, the catalyst passive and all the stats make sense on her, it's just too disconnected from the pace of the game atm) so she's also more susceptible to poke, while stuff like new SV means her midgame WQ combo isn't as universally threatening as it was. TL;DR: Morgana's like Galio, relegated to strong anti-dive and counter-initiation and it's not popular nor sought-out now, with the pushing and aggressive mindset. Also mobility creep.
Morgana's counter initiate isn't really that spectacular either. For instance, Gragas can press R and pretty much counter initiate better than Morg. On top of that he has high mobility, big wave clear, and has some sustain through his drink-a-brew.
Morg's passive also sucks if I'm honest. Early game it's pretty helpful, but late game it really isn't that relevant imo. I would change her W and her passive.
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I picked her before she was cool, but I'd play draft and she'd be permabanned even months after the flock of nerfs because of the AoE press R fad in comp play, and when going blind with friends they'd all want mid and half would play Lux, half Morgana (we'd always give mid to a worse whiner than me who was legit Bronze VI at her and would rage if we tried to help him ><).
...
I tried to pick her up again a few months ago. I realised that when people aren't terrible (as in almost pre-30 level) I actually can't hit bindings and suck at her. T_T
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On October 22 2013 10:11 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2013 09:47 Sufficiency wrote:
I feel Morgana is just too plain and binary, and her skill ceiling is too low. Probably any plat players can play Morgana competitively... because you know, there isn't really much you need to do. People swoon all over Lux but Morg's skill ceiling is low—what? They're often compared, 'cept Lux has a way lower skill floor, and Morgana's more situational and susceptible to mobility creep in general. People still won't rush Banshee or QSS or whatever against her, so when they rely on base MR+runes her W is huge. Problem is, whereas others just want/need to hit one spell as they poke, she's got to hit a combo, and her Q, despite very strong numbers (damage, cc duration, range) is still a slow skillshot (not the particle itself, the wind-up). Mobility made it so it's harder to make people stand in the pool (well, they're better at spreading out in general, remember Morgana got shafted because of excess popularity at the start of season 2), and it's harder to get a good ult. Power creep in general and the way builds have evolved means that RoA first isn't as doable now (it's not that weird frankly, the catalyst passive and all the stats make sense on her, it's just too disconnected from the pace of the game atm) so she's also more susceptible to poke, while stuff like new SV means her midgame WQ combo isn't as universally threatening as it was. TL;DR: Morgana's like Galio, relegated to strong anti-dive and counter-initiation and it's not popular nor sought-out now, with the pushing and aggressive mindset. Also mobility creep.
I donno. I feel Lux is a lot harder to play, because:
1. Does not have no-brainer Corrupted Soil wave clear from level 4. Laning phase not trivial.
2. Does not have (almost) no-brainer point-blank R. Teamfight not trivial.
3. Combo requires autoattacking weaved in.
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EPT
