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[Patch 3.10a: Worlds Balance] General Discussion - Page 142

Forum Index > LoL General
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[PSA]: Challenging the status quo...
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19573 Posts
September 02 2013 08:10 GMT
#2821
On September 02 2013 16:54 Ryuu314 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2013 16:41 cLutZ wrote:
On September 02 2013 16:18 Numy wrote:
On September 02 2013 15:52 cLutZ wrote:
On September 02 2013 15:48 Ryuu314 wrote:
On September 02 2013 15:26 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Current thought for the day:

Youmuu's is fracking OP on Dominion and, now that I think about it, is actually very cost-efficient on SR too (double the flat pen of Cleaver+amazing active).

Hmm, going to have to test it out.

Honestly, make Zed ulti like Fiora ulti in terms of tracking/projectile popping and we'll be good.

While we're at it, can I has invulnerability during Fiora ulti? :x

if anything, Fiora ult needs to be more like Zed ult than the other way around.


Why? You want more binary characters?


Huh no it just isn't working right. You shouldn't take random AoE damage while ulting much like zed can't.


Besides Zed, which ults cant you take damage during? Such a "feature" just makes a difficult to balance champ even harder to balance.

well, fizz, vlad, and elise have it on regular skills. shaco and lissandra have it on ults. those guys are all pretty balanced imo

Edit: Forgot about Yi and Maokai.


So.. 0 for 7? At best 1/6 (and Maokai has mana + weak scaling).
Freeeeeeedom
mr_tolkien
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
France8631 Posts
September 02 2013 08:17 GMT
#2822
Btw on this Zed talk : am I the one not finding him OP in any way or form ?

He's viable/decently strong for sure, but I fail to see how he's ahead of the other heroes mid. He does a good job at assassination but outside of this he's pretty lackluster, and is very dependant on his team opening a path for him while the opposing support doesn't peel his AD (a single exhaust pretty much negates his assassination potential.
And his late game is pretty god darn terrible if he's not widely ahead I think.

For a melee assassin, I find Fizz to be vastly stronger as an example. Better damage, not ult dependant, lower CD mobility, more survivability.
The legend of Darien lives on
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-02 08:22:28
September 02 2013 08:21 GMT
#2823
On September 02 2013 17:10 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2013 16:54 Ryuu314 wrote:
On September 02 2013 16:41 cLutZ wrote:
On September 02 2013 16:18 Numy wrote:
On September 02 2013 15:52 cLutZ wrote:
On September 02 2013 15:48 Ryuu314 wrote:
On September 02 2013 15:26 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Current thought for the day:

Youmuu's is fracking OP on Dominion and, now that I think about it, is actually very cost-efficient on SR too (double the flat pen of Cleaver+amazing active).

Hmm, going to have to test it out.

Honestly, make Zed ulti like Fiora ulti in terms of tracking/projectile popping and we'll be good.

While we're at it, can I has invulnerability during Fiora ulti? :x

if anything, Fiora ult needs to be more like Zed ult than the other way around.


Why? You want more binary characters?


Huh no it just isn't working right. You shouldn't take random AoE damage while ulting much like zed can't.


Besides Zed, which ults cant you take damage during? Such a "feature" just makes a difficult to balance champ even harder to balance.

well, fizz, vlad, and elise have it on regular skills. shaco and lissandra have it on ults. those guys are all pretty balanced imo

Edit: Forgot about Yi and Maokai.


So.. 0 for 7? At best 1/6 (and Maokai has mana + weak scaling).

What do you mean 0 for 7. Every single champion I named can dodge damage in some way or another. Every single one of those are pretty darn balanced atm with maybe the exception of Elise and possibly Yi due to his rework.
On September 02 2013 17:17 mr_tolkien wrote:
Btw on this Zed talk : am I the one not finding him OP in any way or form ?

He's viable/decently strong for sure, but I fail to see how he's ahead of the other heroes mid. He does a good job at assassination but outside of this he's pretty lackluster, and is very dependant on his team opening a path for him while the opposing support doesn't peel his AD (a single exhaust pretty much negates his assassination potential.
And his late game is pretty god darn terrible if he's not widely ahead I think.

For a melee assassin, I find Fizz to be vastly stronger as an example. Better damage, not ult dependant, lower CD mobility, more survivability.

Eh...Fizz is pretty ult dependent. Fizz also has less aoe and no ranged ability outside his ult.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
September 02 2013 08:24 GMT
#2824
Zed's a champ that is capable of vastly more based on the user's skill, more so than many other champs. He's not going to be OP in anyone's solo queue experience, but if we're talking at the absolute top level of play, I can see why the flexibility the champ gains in the hands of a player with complete mastery over him could be problematic (TBH I think he's even somewhat overrated when it comes to NA/EU LCS, because I don't think even the best mid players in either Western LCS can push him to his absolute limits the way someone like Faker can).
Moderator
Lylat
Profile Joined August 2009
France8575 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-02 08:31:46
September 02 2013 08:31 GMT
#2825
Zed is going to be nerfed 100% ! Spam him in ranked while you can
Itsmedudeman
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States19229 Posts
September 02 2013 08:48 GMT
#2826
Zed would be ridiculously OP if he weren't based on AD. His real weakness is fitting into the general team comp. If the game is even then the other team can just itemize towards armor and beat you.

Zed has a much, much stronger early game than fizz and has more survivability/sustain.
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19573 Posts
September 02 2013 08:54 GMT
#2827
On September 02 2013 17:17 mr_tolkien wrote:
Btw on this Zed talk : am I the one not finding him OP in any way or form ?

He's viable/decently strong for sure, but I fail to see how he's ahead of the other heroes mid. He does a good job at assassination but outside of this he's pretty lackluster, and is very dependant on his team opening a path for him while the opposing support doesn't peel his AD (a single exhaust pretty much negates his assassination potential.
And his late game is pretty god darn terrible if he's not widely ahead I think.

For a melee assassin, I find Fizz to be vastly stronger as an example. Better damage, not ult dependant, lower CD mobility, more survivability.


Zed, unlike fizz, has a move, Razor Shuriken, it has 900 range on a 6 S cooldown, and can be extended another 550 range with shadow. Zed, unlike Fizz, also uses energy, so, if played even mildly well, never has to base first. Zed also has 2 AOE farming tools that he doesn't have to get into range to use, Fizz has 1 aoe farming tool that uses his best escape.

On September 02 2013 17:48 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Zed would be ridiculously OP if he weren't based on AD. His real weakness is fitting into the general team comp. If the game is even then the other team can just itemize towards armor and beat you.

Zed has a much, much stronger early game than fizz and has more survivability/sustain.


Moreover, AD scaling champions are better than AP scaling champions most of the time (basically so long as they are "casters"), despite what you say (im sorry), because Riot has taken the position that they are balanced based on getting in 0 autoattacks, which we know is false. This is why AD assassins are always stupid, because they need to be balanced around an unknowable # of autoattacks.
Freeeeeeedom
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
September 02 2013 09:08 GMT
#2828
All the fancy stuff zed can do with living shadows and his ult is one of the few things Riot did right with this champion. Too bad they also thought assassins need to be able to farm easily and safely. All while doing bonkers amount of aoe damage.
liftlift > tsm
Fildun
Profile Joined December 2012
Netherlands4122 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-02 09:08:47
September 02 2013 09:08 GMT
#2829
Guys, help me here, I'm a bit confused. I thought going sightstone as first item on Leona was pretty good, if not the best opener on her. (at least in soloq)
But this last game I got flamed by 5 people for not going philostone as first item. Then I tried to explain that sightstone functions as a gp5 as well in the sense that you save money, but they wouldn't listen.
JazzVortical
Profile Joined July 2013
Australia1825 Posts
September 02 2013 09:13 GMT
#2830
On September 02 2013 17:48 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Zed would be ridiculously OP if he weren't based on AD. His real weakness is fitting into the general team comp. If the game is even then the other team can just itemize towards armor and beat you.

Zed has a much, much stronger early game than fizz and has more survivability/sustain.


I still think Zed's early game and farming is far too good for his assassin potential. I wouldn't mind seeing his passive changed to not work on minions at all. I wonder if that would make a difference.

To mention some good points though, I like that he is mobile and slippery, perfect traits for an assassination based character. I like the shadow mechanic, so I wouldn't like that to be changed. But he feels too good when played well.

cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19573 Posts
September 02 2013 09:18 GMT
#2831
On September 02 2013 18:13 JazzVortical wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2013 17:48 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Zed would be ridiculously OP if he weren't based on AD. His real weakness is fitting into the general team comp. If the game is even then the other team can just itemize towards armor and beat you.

Zed has a much, much stronger early game than fizz and has more survivability/sustain.


I still think Zed's early game and farming is far too good for his assassin potential. I wouldn't mind seeing his passive changed to not work on minions at all. I wonder if that would make a difference.

To mention some good points though, I like that he is mobile and slippery, perfect traits for an assassination based character. I like the shadow mechanic, so I wouldn't like that to be changed. But he feels too good when played well.



Zed's Q needs to be changed. An assassin (let alone a manaless assassin) should not have an easy farming tool. His E is also just a better version of Katarina's W, and would be balanced if it cost 70/80/90/100/110 MANA. Yea, Zed Should use mana. And AP.
Freeeeeeedom
StateAlchemist
Profile Joined January 2011
France1946 Posts
September 02 2013 09:19 GMT
#2832
On September 02 2013 18:08 Fildun wrote:
Guys, help me here, I'm a bit confused. I thought going sightstone as first item on Leona was pretty good, if not the best opener on her. (at least in soloq)
But this last game I got flamed by 5 people for not going philostone as first item. Then I tried to explain that sightstone functions as a gp5 as well in the sense that you save money, but they wouldn't listen.


Sightstone 1st is just fine, you can go philo if you want, but the tankiness you get from the sighstone allows you to make more plays.
Dont bother with people flaming you, they're the same that will tell you that spirit visage is a bad item.
glzElectromaster
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
Japan2474 Posts
September 02 2013 09:25 GMT
#2833
On September 02 2013 18:19 StateAlchemist wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2013 18:08 Fildun wrote:
Guys, help me here, I'm a bit confused. I thought going sightstone as first item on Leona was pretty good, if not the best opener on her. (at least in soloq)
But this last game I got flamed by 5 people for not going philostone as first item. Then I tried to explain that sightstone functions as a gp5 as well in the sense that you save money, but they wouldn't listen.


Sightstone 1st is just fine, you can go philo if you want, but the tankiness you get from the sighstone allows you to make more plays.
Dont bother with people flaming you, they're the same that will tell you that spirit visage is a bad item.


Sightstone 1st is fine, I know some pros do it time to time. Mata I think likes to do that more than others. I usually prefer philo first, but I assume you need the tankiness as Leona more than others.
RIP Kt. Violet | In solitude, where we are least alone
amd098
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Korea (North)1366 Posts
September 02 2013 09:30 GMT
#2834
Just a quick question

The pax skins, how long do we have to redeem them? I might not be back on LoL till weds or so, and my friend got me some codes.
North Korea is best Korea!
ExoFun
Profile Joined August 2010
Netherlands2041 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-02 10:13:34
September 02 2013 10:08 GMT
#2835
On September 02 2013 17:17 mr_tolkien wrote:
Btw on this Zed talk : am I the one not finding him OP in any way or form ?

He's viable/decently strong for sure, but I fail to see how he's ahead of the other heroes mid. He does a good job at assassination but outside of this he's pretty lackluster, and is very dependant on his team opening a path for him while the opposing support doesn't peel his AD (a single exhaust pretty much negates his assassination potential.
And his late game is pretty god darn terrible if he's not widely ahead I think.

For a melee assassin, I find Fizz to be vastly stronger as an example. Better damage, not ult dependant, lower CD mobility, more survivability.

/agree with this post. And fizz is definitely a better asset to a team for teamfighting/objectives etc.

Zed is pretty lackluster in teamfights after he used his ult and the opposite team has good positioning and is hard countered with hourglass. But on the other hand Zed is a good split pusher, but still Fizz outdoes him 1on1 if he goes hourglass first. And kayle is also pretty good vs Zed.

But in EU both fizz and zed get bans alot and i predict both will be @ WC for EU teams.
Masq
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada1792 Posts
September 02 2013 10:29 GMT
#2836
I mostly play filler when I play SoloQ, and I've often being getting top lane vs Nasus.

What are some strong counterpicks to him? Aside from something silly like Teemo, I don't really see how I can stop him from becoming beastmode. Halp pls
kongoline
Profile Joined February 2012
6318 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-02 10:37:54
September 02 2013 10:34 GMT
#2837
u all complain about zed while i think its zyra who is broken and needs to be nerfed -.-, the amount of aoe/cc and dmg she can do is retarded
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
September 02 2013 10:34 GMT
#2838
Play riven. She straight up beats nasus in lane.
liftlift > tsm
Jek
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Denmark2771 Posts
September 02 2013 10:47 GMT
#2839
On September 02 2013 18:08 Fildun wrote:
Guys, help me here, I'm a bit confused. I thought going sightstone as first item on Leona was pretty good, if not the best opener on her. (at least in soloq)
But this last game I got flamed by 5 people for not going philostone as first item. Then I tried to explain that sightstone functions as a gp5 as well in the sense that you save money, but they wouldn't listen.

Don't listen to them. So few people in yolo queue know how to play support properly.
It's Elo not ELO - Every statiscian playing League
Scip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Czech Republic11293 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-02 10:48:59
September 02 2013 10:48 GMT
#2840
Zed is awesome against many splitpushing teams, if the enemy team wants to shen or singed splitpush or anything along those lines he just shuts it down.
He also has awesome roaming and awesome dragon fights and bottom dives etc., no middle laner can follow his roam because he'd just kill them.
His splitpush isn't unstoppable, things like Tryndamere or Zhonyas casters can eventually defeat him (Vladimir for example can I think) but it does take a while for casters to get these items.
So yeah, he's strong, Idk if I would call him OP though.

Also, Sightstone first is the correct choice on support like 96% of the time. Make it 99.5% on Leona who needs+wants the HP. The only time you maybe wouldn't want sightstone first is against Eve, and that is only maybe.
"It may be pleasurable for some of us to imagine being ravished" - Christopher Hitchens in a debate with feminists RIP 2011 Psalm 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron
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