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cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
On September 02 2013 16:54 Ryuu314 wrote: well, fizz, vlad, and elise have it on regular skills. shaco and lissandra have it on ults. those guys are all pretty balanced imo Edit: Forgot about Yi and Maokai. So.. 0 for 7? At best 1/6 (and Maokai has mana + weak scaling). | ||
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mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
He's viable/decently strong for sure, but I fail to see how he's ahead of the other heroes mid. He does a good job at assassination but outside of this he's pretty lackluster, and is very dependant on his team opening a path for him while the opposing support doesn't peel his AD (a single exhaust pretty much negates his assassination potential. And his late game is pretty god darn terrible if he's not widely ahead I think. For a melee assassin, I find Fizz to be vastly stronger as an example. Better damage, not ult dependant, lower CD mobility, more survivability. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On September 02 2013 17:10 cLutZ wrote: So.. 0 for 7? At best 1/6 (and Maokai has mana + weak scaling). What do you mean 0 for 7. Every single champion I named can dodge damage in some way or another. Every single one of those are pretty darn balanced atm with maybe the exception of Elise and possibly Yi due to his rework. On September 02 2013 17:17 mr_tolkien wrote: Btw on this Zed talk : am I the one not finding him OP in any way or form ? He's viable/decently strong for sure, but I fail to see how he's ahead of the other heroes mid. He does a good job at assassination but outside of this he's pretty lackluster, and is very dependant on his team opening a path for him while the opposing support doesn't peel his AD (a single exhaust pretty much negates his assassination potential. And his late game is pretty god darn terrible if he's not widely ahead I think. For a melee assassin, I find Fizz to be vastly stronger as an example. Better damage, not ult dependant, lower CD mobility, more survivability. Eh...Fizz is pretty ult dependent. Fizz also has less aoe and no ranged ability outside his ult. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Lylat
France8571 Posts
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
Zed has a much, much stronger early game than fizz and has more survivability/sustain. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
On September 02 2013 17:17 mr_tolkien wrote: Btw on this Zed talk : am I the one not finding him OP in any way or form ? He's viable/decently strong for sure, but I fail to see how he's ahead of the other heroes mid. He does a good job at assassination but outside of this he's pretty lackluster, and is very dependant on his team opening a path for him while the opposing support doesn't peel his AD (a single exhaust pretty much negates his assassination potential. And his late game is pretty god darn terrible if he's not widely ahead I think. For a melee assassin, I find Fizz to be vastly stronger as an example. Better damage, not ult dependant, lower CD mobility, more survivability. Zed, unlike fizz, has a move, Razor Shuriken, it has 900 range on a 6 S cooldown, and can be extended another 550 range with shadow. Zed, unlike Fizz, also uses energy, so, if played even mildly well, never has to base first. Zed also has 2 AOE farming tools that he doesn't have to get into range to use, Fizz has 1 aoe farming tool that uses his best escape. On September 02 2013 17:48 Itsmedudeman wrote: Zed would be ridiculously OP if he weren't based on AD. His real weakness is fitting into the general team comp. If the game is even then the other team can just itemize towards armor and beat you. Zed has a much, much stronger early game than fizz and has more survivability/sustain. Moreover, AD scaling champions are better than AP scaling champions most of the time (basically so long as they are "casters"), despite what you say (im sorry), because Riot has taken the position that they are balanced based on getting in 0 autoattacks, which we know is false. This is why AD assassins are always stupid, because they need to be balanced around an unknowable # of autoattacks. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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Fildun
Netherlands4121 Posts
But this last game I got flamed by 5 people for not going philostone as first item. Then I tried to explain that sightstone functions as a gp5 as well in the sense that you save money, but they wouldn't listen. | ||
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JazzVortical
Australia1825 Posts
On September 02 2013 17:48 Itsmedudeman wrote: Zed would be ridiculously OP if he weren't based on AD. His real weakness is fitting into the general team comp. If the game is even then the other team can just itemize towards armor and beat you. Zed has a much, much stronger early game than fizz and has more survivability/sustain. I still think Zed's early game and farming is far too good for his assassin potential. I wouldn't mind seeing his passive changed to not work on minions at all. I wonder if that would make a difference. To mention some good points though, I like that he is mobile and slippery, perfect traits for an assassination based character. I like the shadow mechanic, so I wouldn't like that to be changed. But he feels too good when played well. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
On September 02 2013 18:13 JazzVortical wrote: I still think Zed's early game and farming is far too good for his assassin potential. I wouldn't mind seeing his passive changed to not work on minions at all. I wonder if that would make a difference. To mention some good points though, I like that he is mobile and slippery, perfect traits for an assassination based character. I like the shadow mechanic, so I wouldn't like that to be changed. But he feels too good when played well. Zed's Q needs to be changed. An assassin (let alone a manaless assassin) should not have an easy farming tool. His E is also just a better version of Katarina's W, and would be balanced if it cost 70/80/90/100/110 MANA. Yea, Zed Should use mana. And AP. | ||
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StateAlchemist
France1946 Posts
On September 02 2013 18:08 Fildun wrote: Guys, help me here, I'm a bit confused. I thought going sightstone as first item on Leona was pretty good, if not the best opener on her. (at least in soloq) But this last game I got flamed by 5 people for not going philostone as first item. Then I tried to explain that sightstone functions as a gp5 as well in the sense that you save money, but they wouldn't listen. Sightstone 1st is just fine, you can go philo if you want, but the tankiness you get from the sighstone allows you to make more plays. Dont bother with people flaming you, they're the same that will tell you that spirit visage is a bad item. | ||
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glzElectromaster
Japan2474 Posts
On September 02 2013 18:19 StateAlchemist wrote: Sightstone 1st is just fine, you can go philo if you want, but the tankiness you get from the sighstone allows you to make more plays. Dont bother with people flaming you, they're the same that will tell you that spirit visage is a bad item. Sightstone 1st is fine, I know some pros do it time to time. Mata I think likes to do that more than others. I usually prefer philo first, but I assume you need the tankiness as Leona more than others. | ||
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amd098
Korea (North)1366 Posts
The pax skins, how long do we have to redeem them? I might not be back on LoL till weds or so, and my friend got me some codes. | ||
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ExoFun
Netherlands2041 Posts
On September 02 2013 17:17 mr_tolkien wrote: Btw on this Zed talk : am I the one not finding him OP in any way or form ? He's viable/decently strong for sure, but I fail to see how he's ahead of the other heroes mid. He does a good job at assassination but outside of this he's pretty lackluster, and is very dependant on his team opening a path for him while the opposing support doesn't peel his AD (a single exhaust pretty much negates his assassination potential. And his late game is pretty god darn terrible if he's not widely ahead I think. For a melee assassin, I find Fizz to be vastly stronger as an example. Better damage, not ult dependant, lower CD mobility, more survivability. /agree with this post. And fizz is definitely a better asset to a team for teamfighting/objectives etc. Zed is pretty lackluster in teamfights after he used his ult and the opposite team has good positioning and is hard countered with hourglass. But on the other hand Zed is a good split pusher, but still Fizz outdoes him 1on1 if he goes hourglass first. And kayle is also pretty good vs Zed. But in EU both fizz and zed get bans alot and i predict both will be @ WC for EU teams. | ||
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Masq
Canada1792 Posts
What are some strong counterpicks to him? Aside from something silly like Teemo, I don't really see how I can stop him from becoming beastmode. Halp pls | ||
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kongoline
6318 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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Jek
Denmark2771 Posts
On September 02 2013 18:08 Fildun wrote: Guys, help me here, I'm a bit confused. I thought going sightstone as first item on Leona was pretty good, if not the best opener on her. (at least in soloq) But this last game I got flamed by 5 people for not going philostone as first item. Then I tried to explain that sightstone functions as a gp5 as well in the sense that you save money, but they wouldn't listen. Don't listen to them. So few people in yolo queue know how to play support properly. | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
He also has awesome roaming and awesome dragon fights and bottom dives etc., no middle laner can follow his roam because he'd just kill them. His splitpush isn't unstoppable, things like Tryndamere or Zhonyas casters can eventually defeat him (Vladimir for example can I think) but it does take a while for casters to get these items. So yeah, he's strong, Idk if I would call him OP though. Also, Sightstone first is the correct choice on support like 96% of the time. Make it 99.5% on Leona who needs+wants the HP. The only time you maybe wouldn't want sightstone first is against Eve, and that is only maybe. | ||
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