|
|
On September 02 2013 09:26 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2013 09:23 Lord Tolkien wrote:
I've hated Zed since he was first released.
Fking Zed mang. Videos like the Bischu or Faker outplays amplify my hate like death mark. Your hatred for this champ must be really amazing if you can't appreciate faker outplays  .Dunno I've never felt like zed was that op.He is one of the stronger champs but never thought he was a main offender.
Oh, I can appreciate it. It simply also amplifies my hate. Ban him, ban him every game.
Curiously enough, I'm also greatly ambivalent about Zac.
|
In the ADC informative video, imp said he'd often get 80cs at 10 min because he's trying to harass a lot, so more than 70 seemed pretty nice to him for any non-pro player.
|
On September 02 2013 09:49 TheYango wrote:
Honestly, your metric should not be how many CS by X minute, but how much MISSED CS you have based on CS that you attempted to go for. This is harder for you to track (you basically have to keep a mental tally while you play the game). Your goal should simply be never missing a creep kill that you attempted to go for.
Everything else falls under the realm of other skills (e.g. roaming efficiency, winning your lane, choosing an appropriate time to base) and trying to rope your CSing into the single umbrella goal of "farming better" is arguably somewhat counterproductive.
Again, your goal should be 100% of the CS you attempt to get.
Of course that should be the first goal. But learning when to go/where to find additional CS is also important. As you said, there is a large set of different skills playing into that, but i think the important question is always "If i do x, does that give me more gain then simply farming my lane?" Gain can be both money for you, and denying money to the opponent. The baseline should always be farming, and any action that differs from that should be judged by its estimated return compared to farming.
This means that any time you lose CS, for whatever reason, you should question if what you gained was worth it. It often is. If you force your enemy out of lane, but lose 3 cs, that is a good trade as long as they lose more then 3 cs from being out of lane. For roaming and similar stuff, you need to take into account the estimated chance of success too.
|
I don't think a hard number benchmark is necessarily the correct goal.
Is both you and your opponent having 100 CS at 12 minutes better than you having 90 and your opponent 70 at 12 minutes? No, obviously not. In a pure free-farm lane, you might be able to set some sort of benchmarks, but I think what Yango is saying is more accurate. Sometimes, getting a CS isn't worth the cost of it, and the better play is forgoing the CS.
|
Just finished watching the OGN finals, and one thing I noticed is that it's way more awkward to have 5+ guys hold a trophy than just 1 guy like SC2.
|
United States47024 Posts
On September 02 2013 10:45 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2013 09:49 TheYango wrote:
Honestly, your metric should not be how many CS by X minute, but how much MISSED CS you have based on CS that you attempted to go for. This is harder for you to track (you basically have to keep a mental tally while you play the game). Your goal should simply be never missing a creep kill that you attempted to go for.
Everything else falls under the realm of other skills (e.g. roaming efficiency, winning your lane, choosing an appropriate time to base) and trying to rope your CSing into the single umbrella goal of "farming better" is arguably somewhat counterproductive.
Again, your goal should be 100% of the CS you attempt to get. Of course that should be the first goal. But learning when to go/where to find additional CS is also important. As you said, there is a large set of different skills playing into that, but i think the important question is always "If i do x, does that give me more gain then simply farming my lane?" Gain can be both money for you, and denying money to the opponent. The baseline should always be farming, and any action that differs from that should be judged by its estimated return compared to farming. This means that any time you lose CS, for whatever reason, you should question if what you gained was worth it. It often is. If you force your enemy out of lane, but lose 3 cs, that is a good trade as long as they lose more then 3 cs from being out of lane. For roaming and similar stuff, you need to take into account the estimated chance of success too.
Yes, but my point is that kind of judgment is not one you can make based on your end-of-game CS. If there was a tradeoff, you have to evaluate that on an individual basis, not as an aggregate of "oh I got this much CS this game so it was fine/not good enough".
Good roaming effectiveness, laning ability, etc. should not be roped in under the same general umbrella as farming. Those are all individual skills you should be paying attention to individually.
|
On September 02 2013 11:27 Nos- wrote:
Just finished watching the OGN finals, and one thing I noticed is that it's way more awkward to have 5+ guys hold a trophy than just 1 guy like SC2.
Well, its even more akward when 1 of those guys is towering over everyone else and is trying not to rip it from their hands by moving it up and down
|
United States23745 Posts
On September 02 2013 11:27 Nos- wrote:
Just finished watching the OGN finals, and one thing I noticed is that it's way more awkward to have 5+ guys hold a trophy than just 1 guy like SC2.
lol that's a good point, can't argue with that hahah.
|
esports really needs to learn from professional sports already..
In professional sports people take turns with the trophy, not all try to hold it at once.
|
On September 02 2013 11:44 Itsmedudeman wrote:
esports really needs to learn from professional sports already..
In professional sports people take turns with the trophy, not all try to hold it at once.
well i guess the winning team did take turns kissing the trophy so there's that
|
On September 02 2013 11:44 Itsmedudeman wrote:
esports really needs to learn from professional sports already..
In professional sports people take turns with the trophy, not all try to hold it at once.
Alliance did fine with their trophy when they won TI3. had the group moment then passed it around, same as any other sport. I think that SKT was just too excited. and probably a good deal younger than alliance for example.
|
On September 02 2013 09:55 Lord Tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2013 09:26 nafta wrote:On September 02 2013 09:23 Lord Tolkien wrote:
I've hated Zed since he was first released.
Fking Zed mang. Videos like the Bischu or Faker outplays amplify my hate like death mark. Your hatred for this champ must be really amazing if you can't appreciate faker outplays .Dunno I've never felt like zed was that op.He is one of the stronger champs but never thought he was a main offender. Oh, I can appreciate it. It simply also amplifies my hate. Ban him, ban him every game. Curiously enough, I'm also greatly ambivalent about Zac.
Maybe it's because Death Mark just doesn't fit in with other AD abilities
-physical damage in chunks is dealt by auto-attacks, or abilities that are weapon-/projectile-related or presumably shockwaves/some sort of kinetic energy
-physical damage over time is explained by bleeding
but Death Mark is a physical damage time bomb, which doesn't really make a lot of sense
"sure it does, you just swing your sword and face away like a badass, and few seconds later the other dude explodes"
SHUT UP MASTER YI I'M SICK OF YOUR SHIT
|
On September 02 2013 11:56 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2013 11:44 Itsmedudeman wrote:
esports really needs to learn from professional sports already..
In professional sports people take turns with the trophy, not all try to hold it at once. Alliance did fine with their trophy when they won TI3. had the group moment then passed it around, same as any other sport. I think that SKT was just too excited. and probably a good deal younger than alliance for example.
Rly? baiting a dota2 vs LoL over trophy handling?
|
sigh
this forum has devolved to the point where i want to leave
|
Current sliver 1, anyone want to try and hit gold in 3v3. shelkelp add me
|
On September 02 2013 12:54 Shelke14 wrote:
Current sliver 1, anyone want to try and hit gold in 3v3. shelkelp add me
I am, but I don't want the stress. obesechicken13
|
United States15536 Posts
On September 02 2013 12:43 Capped wrote:
sigh
this forum has devolved to the point where i want to leave
You would be following in the footsteps of many a fine fellow.
|
On September 02 2013 12:39 SagaZ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2013 11:56 PrinceXizor wrote:On September 02 2013 11:44 Itsmedudeman wrote:
esports really needs to learn from professional sports already..
In professional sports people take turns with the trophy, not all try to hold it at once. Alliance did fine with their trophy when they won TI3. had the group moment then passed it around, same as any other sport. I think that SKT was just too excited. and probably a good deal younger than alliance for example. Rly? baiting a dota2 vs LoL over trophy handling?
no one is baiting anything. be less insecure. I guess if i was baiting anything it was a inexperience young players vs vet players discussion??
|
On September 02 2013 13:03 AsmodeusXI wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2013 12:43 Capped wrote:
sigh
this forum has devolved to the point where i want to leave You would be following in the footsteps of many a fine fellow.
Like who?
|
United States15536 Posts
On September 02 2013 13:16 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2013 13:03 AsmodeusXI wrote:On September 02 2013 12:43 Capped wrote:
sigh
this forum has devolved to the point where i want to leave You would be following in the footsteps of many a fine fellow. Like who?
bly! And Two_Down. Caller (kinda). You know ppl
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
