• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 03:12
CEST 09:12
KST 16:12
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy2Code S RO8 Preview: herO, Zoun, Bunny, Classic7Code S RO8 Preview: Rogue, GuMiho, Solar, Maru3BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview27Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN3
Community News
Code S RO8 Results + RO4 Bracket (2025 Season 2)6BGE Stara Zagora 2025 - Replay Pack2Weekly Cups (June 2-8): herO doubles down1[BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates9GSL Ro4 and Finals moved to Sunday June 15th13
StarCraft 2
General
Code S RO8 Results + RO4 Bracket (2025 Season 2) The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation How herO can make history in the Code S S2 finals TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing
Tourneys
[GSL 2025] Code S: Season 2 - Ro8 - Group A [GSL 2025] Code S: Season 2 - Ro8 - Group B RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[G] Darkgrid Layout Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance
Brood War
General
BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion FlaSh Witnesses SCV Pull Off the Impossible vs Shu StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest Will foreigners ever be able to challenge Koreans?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - Day 4 [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - Day 3 [ASL19] Grand Finals
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Beyond All Reason What do you want from future RTS games?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Who’s Getting the Effortless-Chic Look Just Right?
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Vape Nation Thread
Fan Clubs
Maru Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
NHL Playoffs 2024 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
A Better Routine For Progame…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 26625 users

[Patch 3.10a: Worlds Balance] General Discussion - Page 139

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 137 138 139 140 141 156 Next
[PSA]: Challenging the status quo...
WaveofShadow
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada31494 Posts
September 01 2013 23:05 GMT
#2761
On September 02 2013 07:59 HazMat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2013 07:56 TheRabidDeer wrote:
Are there any kind of cs benchmarks to go by for say, solo mid? Like 90 cs by 10 minutes or something? I know it will probably vary by champion and by game, but just curious to see how much I need to improve in general. Or maybe how many creeps spawn by 10 minutes?

100 by 12 is pretty standard.

Man I remember when 100 by 15 was decent.
twitch.tv/waveofshadow ||| Winner of AHGL's So You Think You Can Cast! ||| Juicy Dad for lyfe ||| 'idk i get a kick out of stupid things' - Jarms Yarng
TheRabidDeer
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States3806 Posts
September 01 2013 23:07 GMT
#2762
On September 02 2013 07:59 HazMat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2013 07:56 TheRabidDeer wrote:
Are there any kind of cs benchmarks to go by for say, solo mid? Like 90 cs by 10 minutes or something? I know it will probably vary by champion and by game, but just curious to see how much I need to improve in general. Or maybe how many creeps spawn by 10 minutes?

100 by 12 is pretty standard.

Is that pro level standard? Or middle of the pack standard?
remedium
Profile Joined July 2011
United States939 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-01 23:13:24
September 01 2013 23:12 GMT
#2763
On September 02 2013 08:07 TheRabidDeer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2013 07:59 HazMat wrote:
On September 02 2013 07:56 TheRabidDeer wrote:
Are there any kind of cs benchmarks to go by for say, solo mid? Like 90 cs by 10 minutes or something? I know it will probably vary by champion and by game, but just curious to see how much I need to improve in general. Or maybe how many creeps spawn by 10 minutes?

100 by 12 is pretty standard.

Is that pro level standard? Or middle of the pack standard?


It means you're doing well. There are only a finite number of minions available to a laner in the early to mid game, and in-game variables such as jungle invades, early dragons, and general tomfoolery will affect how much farm you can realistically get.

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Farming

Possibly relevant. 139 is perfect at 12 minutes according to that chart.
Stay positive!
AsmodeusXI
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States15536 Posts
September 01 2013 23:15 GMT
#2764
iirc, the best practicing test is the 200 by 20:00 right?
WriterTL > RL. BNet: Asmodeus#1187 - LoL: DJForeclosure - Steam: asmodeusxi | www.n3rddimension.com
SagaZ
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
France3460 Posts
September 01 2013 23:15 GMT
#2765
On September 02 2013 07:40 WaveofShadow wrote:
Alright so I know there's already a thread for this, but to be completely honest I'd rather give to people I know to some degree than one of 200 5-count posters in the giveaway thread.
SOOOOO

Thanks to GhandiEagle I have a Riot Blitz and Arcade Hec skin to give away for any region except EUNE/NA/OCE as I gave those away to TLer friends of mine (and KR apparently doesn't work). I'm just going to post them here so first come first serve. At least let the thread know if you got them, ok?
Entirely up to you guys if you want to take both for a region or not; I got them in a package and gave them away as a package so the choice is yours.
+ Show Spoiler +

Blitz - WWGUT2PYXFGET7
Hec - WWU74QEEDY43XM


Cheers mate, redeemed them in LAS server, thanks alot for them
Be nice, buy wards and don't feed double buff.
seRapH
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9756 Posts
September 01 2013 23:17 GMT
#2766
On September 02 2013 08:15 AsmodeusXI wrote:
iirc, the best practicing test is the 200 by 20:00 right?

if you're practicing, you might want to aim a bit higher than that, especially if you're going for wraiths too
boomer hands
silencefc
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States875 Posts
September 01 2013 23:36 GMT
#2767
I wish Riot would pay to have professional commentators from other fields kind of tutor the LCS commentators.
Slice like a goddamn hammer.
HazMat
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States17077 Posts
September 01 2013 23:40 GMT
#2768
On September 02 2013 08:07 TheRabidDeer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2013 07:59 HazMat wrote:
On September 02 2013 07:56 TheRabidDeer wrote:
Are there any kind of cs benchmarks to go by for say, solo mid? Like 90 cs by 10 minutes or something? I know it will probably vary by champion and by game, but just curious to see how much I need to improve in general. Or maybe how many creeps spawn by 10 minutes?

100 by 12 is pretty standard.

Is that pro level standard? Or middle of the pack standard?

Well, it all comes down to how much you roam and how much you fight the other laner. I guess 100 by 14 would be more standard, but if you're under no pressure and not roaming then 100 by 12 shouldn't be too hard with some practice. What's important is that you're roaming at the right times to minimize creep loss.
www.youtube.com/user/ShakeDrizzle | League and SSBM content creator | Armada's Youtube Editor
Mikau
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Netherlands1446 Posts
September 01 2013 23:41 GMT
#2769
Are you guys talking 'practicing' as starting up a normal (ranked or blind pick) game and only focussing on cs and not worry too much about trading/killing/roaming, or starting up a bot or custom game and just csing for 20 mins straight trying not to miss any?
phyvo
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States5635 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-01 23:52:55
September 01 2013 23:52 GMT
#2770
On September 02 2013 08:12 remedium wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2013 08:07 TheRabidDeer wrote:
On September 02 2013 07:59 HazMat wrote:
On September 02 2013 07:56 TheRabidDeer wrote:
Are there any kind of cs benchmarks to go by for say, solo mid? Like 90 cs by 10 minutes or something? I know it will probably vary by champion and by game, but just curious to see how much I need to improve in general. Or maybe how many creeps spawn by 10 minutes?

100 by 12 is pretty standard.

Is that pro level standard? Or middle of the pack standard?


It means you're doing well. There are only a finite number of minions available to a laner in the early to mid game, and in-game variables such as jungle invades, early dragons, and general tomfoolery will affect how much farm you can realistically get.

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Farming

Possibly relevant. 139 is perfect at 12 minutes according to that chart.


Keep in mind that you're assuming the creeps instantly arrive in lane ready to be CSed. In reality they take 30 seconds to reach the center of mid lane and often take another 30 seconds to CS if you're not pushing.
"BE A MANGO TO SLEEP LIKE A SNORING TIGER" - Monte
Itsmedudeman
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States19229 Posts
September 02 2013 00:06 GMT
#2771
On September 02 2013 08:15 AsmodeusXI wrote:
iirc, the best practicing test is the 200 by 20:00 right?

That's a bit low I think. 150 by 15 is a better test.
gtrsrs
Profile Joined June 2010
United States9109 Posts
September 02 2013 00:19 GMT
#2772
so i think that zed probably has too much in his kit
hai showcased pretty well in the TSM series that a champ that can gapclose WHILE disappearing off the map allows for a bit too much room to counterplay. on some champs it's okay (yi, fizz, shaco kinda but not really even) because they have other weaknesses (no other jumps, mana constraints, inability to farm, what have you)

i mean i always thought zed was too strong but i couldn't really nail down the reason. yeah he does a ton of damage but other champs do too. yeah he's resourceless but other champs are too. yeah he can change positions easily but other champs can too. lee sin had all those features at one point. but having an ability that can negate enemy burst (WHILE blowing you up) is too much

i think changing that (and slightly slightly nerfing his damage) would put zed in a good place. i like having super entertaining super high-skill champs and i'd love for all champs to be on zed's level. but if riot is gonna put all champs at a "balanced" level rather than all champs at a max strength level, he needs these changes
i play ... hearthstone =\^.^/= Winterfox
Lord Tolkien
Profile Joined November 2012
United States12083 Posts
September 02 2013 00:23 GMT
#2773
I've hated Zed since he was first released.

Fking Zed mang. Videos like the Bischu or Faker outplays amplify my hate like death mark.
"His father is pretty juicy tbh." ~WaveofShadow
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19573 Posts
September 02 2013 00:24 GMT
#2774
On September 02 2013 09:19 gtrsrs wrote:
so i think that zed probably has too much in his kit
hai showcased pretty well in the TSM series that a champ that can gapclose WHILE disappearing off the map allows for a bit too much room to counterplay. on some champs it's okay (yi, fizz, shaco kinda but not really even) because they have other weaknesses (no other jumps, mana constraints, inability to farm, what have you)

i mean i always thought zed was too strong but i couldn't really nail down the reason. yeah he does a ton of damage but other champs do too. yeah he's resourceless but other champs are too. yeah he can change positions easily but other champs can too. lee sin had all those features at one point. but having an ability that can negate enemy burst (WHILE blowing you up) is too much

i think changing that (and slightly slightly nerfing his damage) would put zed in a good place. i like having super entertaining super high-skill champs and i'd love for all champs to be on zed's level. but if riot is gonna put all champs at a "balanced" level rather than all champs at a max strength level, he needs these changes


I doubt Zed will ever be balanced. He has all of the "hard to balance" features available besides a global, reset, or free sustain (hello botrk).
Freeeeeeedom
GhandiEAGLE
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States20754 Posts
September 02 2013 00:25 GMT
#2775
Fun event, awesome to meet some TL guys, was really funny to hear them go "you're Ghandi?" TSM played really well until the last game, when they just fell apart. Good event, fun times, a little depressing but oh well ^_^
Oh, my achin' hands, from rakin' in grands, and breakin' in mic stands
nafta
Profile Joined August 2010
Bulgaria18893 Posts
September 02 2013 00:26 GMT
#2776
On September 02 2013 09:23 Lord Tolkien wrote:
I've hated Zed since he was first released.

Fking Zed mang. Videos like the Bischu or Faker outplays amplify my hate like death mark.

Your hatred for this champ must be really amazing if you can't appreciate faker outplays .Dunno I've never felt like zed was that op.He is one of the stronger champs but never thought he was a main offender.
jaybrundage
Profile Joined December 2009
United States3921 Posts
September 02 2013 00:32 GMT
#2777
On September 02 2013 07:59 HazMat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2013 07:56 TheRabidDeer wrote:
Are there any kind of cs benchmarks to go by for say, solo mid? Like 90 cs by 10 minutes or something? I know it will probably vary by champion and by game, but just curious to see how much I need to improve in general. Or maybe how many creeps spawn by 10 minutes?

100 by 12 is pretty standard.

Honestly if your gonna practice I would just set this as your benchmark. Shake Obv knows what hes talking about. For people that don't know Shake is Diamond 1 and is a siiiick Ree Singa. I found it odd that some one asked if it was the avg or what pros get. If your setting goals you should set them high.
The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in battle.
Elem
Profile Joined April 2011
Sweden4717 Posts
September 02 2013 00:42 GMT
#2778
On September 02 2013 09:32 jaybrundage wrote:
I found it odd that some one asked if it was the avg or what pros get. If your setting goals you should set them high.

An initial recommended benchmark means a good goal to work towards in a reasonable pace, and after that you just slowly add more. The worst thing you can do when improving is to set a way too high goal. It's like going into a game and being like "Oh, sup. Time to get 250 CS in 18 minutes, we Froggen now!" - something that isn't going to work out anytime soon. It only ends up being frustrating for the person and doesn't really motivate a vast majority of players. Slow (and noticable progress) is significantly more inspiring than "Oh, now I just need 45 more CS at this minute and I've reached my goal...yay..."
#freeshauni
nafta
Profile Joined August 2010
Bulgaria18893 Posts
September 02 2013 00:46 GMT
#2779
I wouldn't really call 100 by 12 minutes a high benchmark.Especially if you are something like ori/kart/diana I'd even go as far to say it's pretty bad.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
September 02 2013 00:49 GMT
#2780
Honestly, your metric should not be how many CS by X minute, but how much MISSED CS you have based on CS that you attempted to go for. This is harder for you to track (you basically have to keep a mental tally while you play the game). Your goal should simply be never missing a creep kill that you attempted to go for.

Everything else falls under the realm of other skills (e.g. roaming efficiency, winning your lane, choosing an appropriate time to base) and trying to rope your CSing into the single umbrella goal of "farming better" is arguably somewhat counterproductive.

Again, your goal should be 100% of the CS you attempt to get.
Moderator
Prev 1 137 138 139 140 141 156 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
00:00
OSC Elite Rising Star #15
TBD vs ArTLIVE!
Liquipedia
Replay Cast
00:00
uThermal 2v2 Circuit: May
Liquipedia
OSC
21:00
Mid Season Playoffs
ArT vs ReBellioN
HonMonO vs Ziomek
Shameless vs LunaSea
MilkiCow vs GgMaChine
Moja vs HiGhDrA
Jumy vs TBD
Demi vs NightPhoenix
Solar vs Cham
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Livibee 150
StarCraft: Brood War
Hyuk 1577
TY 253
Leta 224
Mong 178
ToSsGirL 121
Nal_rA 114
JulyZerg 110
GoRush 33
soO 33
Yoon 18
[ Show more ]
ivOry 4
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1571
Other Games
C9.Mang01283
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream3579
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 68
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH338
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota250
League of Legends
• Stunt635
• HappyZerGling144
Other Games
• Scarra1621
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Invitational
3h 48m
HiGhDrA vs Nicoract
MaNa vs HiGhDrA
HiGhDrA vs Reynor
Nicoract vs Reynor
MaNa vs Nicoract
MaNa vs Reynor
MaxPax vs Spirit
Krystianer vs Spirit
OSC
5h 48m
BSL 2v2 ProLeague S3
11h 48m
Korean StarCraft League
19h 48m
SOOP
1d 1h
sOs vs Percival
CranKy Ducklings
1d 2h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 3h
Cheesadelphia
1d 7h
CSO Cup
1d 9h
BSL: ProLeague
1d 10h
Hawk vs UltrA
Sziky vs spx
TerrOr vs JDConan
[ Show More ]
GSL Code S
2 days
Rogue vs herO
Classic vs GuMiho
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
BSL: ProLeague
2 days
Bonyth vs Dewalt
Cross vs Doodle
MadiNho vs Dragon
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Cure vs Percival
ByuN vs Spirit
RSL Revival
5 days
herO vs sOs
Zoun vs Clem
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Serral vs SHIN
Solar vs Cham
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 17: Qualifier 2
BGE Stara Zagora 2025
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
2025 GSL S2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.