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On August 09 2013 02:51 caelym wrote:
Ahh I get what Yango's trying to say now. He's saying Fizz ult is a teamfight ult because it has good use cases for teamfights. The disagreement is whether it's meant for teamfighting which we can bicker about forever. Also ambiguity comes from what "teamfight" means and how it differentiates from "AOE".
I think he's arguing that the ult has its use in teamfights and it can contribute to AoE comps because it has its own AoE.
Whether it's actually good at that is another story completely. The nature of the spell being AoE means that it obviously had some design intent on impacting more than one champion.
As for Banner of Command, I've built it plenty of times and it's been underwhelming every time. I've even built it when I was stomping and either almost threw or did throw the game because of how terrible it is. I built Banner of Command/Captain Boots/Aegis on Elise once and now it's a running joke among my friends because of how awful and ineffective it was.
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On August 09 2013 03:16 Mauzel wrote:
Okay guys:
Lets say you could make a team with absolute perfect control and decision making. Who would be must pick/ban tier?
I think globals, TF especially, would be imbalanced with perfect play.
Tristana in the hands of someone with flawless positioning would be a gg train late game.
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On August 09 2013 03:30 Fusilero wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 03:16 Mauzel wrote:
Okay guys:
Lets say you could make a team with absolute perfect control and decision making. Who would be must pick/ban tier?
I think globals, TF especially, would be imbalanced with perfect play. Tristana in the hands of someone with flawless positioning would be a gg train late game.
But would this same tristana get steamrolled in lane by a perfect Caitlyn or graves. Would this Tristana build AP early?
Then again this issue is, what do you throw out first Rock Paper or Scissors if you are perfect.
+ Show Spoiler +
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what happens when perfect junglers face each other? you could never gank because the other guy would always be there for the countergank gg
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On August 09 2013 03:31 ReketSomething wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 03:30 Fusilero wrote:On August 09 2013 03:16 Mauzel wrote:
Okay guys:
Lets say you could make a team with absolute perfect control and decision making. Who would be must pick/ban tier?
I think globals, TF especially, would be imbalanced with perfect play. Tristana in the hands of someone with flawless positioning would be a gg train late game. But would this same tristana get steamrolled in lane by a perfect Caitlyn or graves. Would this Tristana build AP early? Then again this issue is, what do you throw out first Rock Paper or Scissors if you are perfect. + Show Spoiler +
Hmm perhaps the perfect ezreal would be the best adc actually, snipes for days, never miss mystic shots and can cancel all cc with arcane shift.
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Yeah the REAL question here is:
If played perfectly against a perfect opponent, can the hero make it through the early game? Will it be completely superior in the late game?
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On August 09 2013 03:33 Fusilero wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 03:31 ReketSomething wrote:On August 09 2013 03:30 Fusilero wrote:On August 09 2013 03:16 Mauzel wrote:
Okay guys:
Lets say you could make a team with absolute perfect control and decision making. Who would be must pick/ban tier?
I think globals, TF especially, would be imbalanced with perfect play. Tristana in the hands of someone with flawless positioning would be a gg train late game. But would this same tristana get steamrolled in lane by a perfect Caitlyn or graves. Would this Tristana build AP early? Then again this issue is, what do you throw out first Rock Paper or Scissors if you are perfect. + Show Spoiler + Hmm perhaps the perfect ezreal would be the best adc actually, snipes for days, never miss mystic shots and can cancel all cc with arcane shift.
But the mystic shot would be perfectly dodged everytime also! He might become the most useless adc.
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The problem with ezreal is if you were playing against a perfect opponent, they could theoretically dodge mystic shots 
Perfect is a weird concept. Many situations are beyond our understanding because in many situations there is no right decision or the decision is luck based.
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and this is when you realize this is a pointless question because it all comes down to your perspective . the perfect tristana player would always get zoned by the perfect tank player blah blah blah
then all the player versus player based decisions liek skillshots
just staphph it now
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adc is a really hard call, I feel like it's the least champion relevant when it comes to match up.
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On August 09 2013 03:34 ReketSomething wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 03:33 Fusilero wrote:On August 09 2013 03:31 ReketSomething wrote:On August 09 2013 03:30 Fusilero wrote:On August 09 2013 03:16 Mauzel wrote:
Okay guys:
Lets say you could make a team with absolute perfect control and decision making. Who would be must pick/ban tier?
I think globals, TF especially, would be imbalanced with perfect play. Tristana in the hands of someone with flawless positioning would be a gg train late game. But would this same tristana get steamrolled in lane by a perfect Caitlyn or graves. Would this Tristana build AP early? Then again this issue is, what do you throw out first Rock Paper or Scissors if you are perfect. + Show Spoiler + Hmm perhaps the perfect ezreal would be the best adc actually, snipes for days, never miss mystic shots and can cancel all cc with arcane shift. But the mystic shot would be perfectly dodged everytime also! He might become the most useless adc.
Whoah. Then perhaps in a perfect world everyone would just be a bruiser as they'd know all the tricks to killing ADC.
This question is too circular I think we should stop.
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All this perfect talk seems like trying to divide with zero.
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On August 09 2013 03:34 ReketSomething wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 03:33 Fusilero wrote:On August 09 2013 03:31 ReketSomething wrote:On August 09 2013 03:30 Fusilero wrote:On August 09 2013 03:16 Mauzel wrote:
Okay guys:
Lets say you could make a team with absolute perfect control and decision making. Who would be must pick/ban tier?
I think globals, TF especially, would be imbalanced with perfect play. Tristana in the hands of someone with flawless positioning would be a gg train late game. But would this same tristana get steamrolled in lane by a perfect Caitlyn or graves. Would this Tristana build AP early? Then again this issue is, what do you throw out first Rock Paper or Scissors if you are perfect. + Show Spoiler + Hmm perhaps the perfect ezreal would be the best adc actually, snipes for days, never miss mystic shots and can cancel all cc with arcane shift. But the mystic shot would be perfectly dodged everytime also!
Mystic shot is too fast to dodge a large portion of the time.
On August 09 2013 03:38 Zhiroo wrote:
All this perfect talk seems like trying to divide with zero.
Pretty much. There's no such thing as truly perfect play.
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So how often can you create situations where the opponent has little to no counterplay? Which champs are best at creating those situations?
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On August 09 2013 03:43 mordek wrote:
So how often can you create situations where the opponent has little to no counterplay? Which champs are best at creating those situations?
Kassadin, long range blink with good cc, one of which is targeted
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On August 09 2013 03:38 sylverfyre wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 03:34 ReketSomething wrote:On August 09 2013 03:33 Fusilero wrote:On August 09 2013 03:31 ReketSomething wrote:On August 09 2013 03:30 Fusilero wrote:On August 09 2013 03:16 Mauzel wrote:
Okay guys:
Lets say you could make a team with absolute perfect control and decision making. Who would be must pick/ban tier?
I think globals, TF especially, would be imbalanced with perfect play. Tristana in the hands of someone with flawless positioning would be a gg train late game. But would this same tristana get steamrolled in lane by a perfect Caitlyn or graves. Would this Tristana build AP early? Then again this issue is, what do you throw out first Rock Paper or Scissors if you are perfect. + Show Spoiler + Hmm perhaps the perfect ezreal would be the best adc actually, snipes for days, never miss mystic shots and can cancel all cc with arcane shift. But the mystic shot would be perfectly dodged everytime also! Mystic shot is too fast to dodge a large portion of the time. Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 03:38 Zhiroo wrote:
All this perfect talk seems like trying to divide with zero. Pretty much. There's no such thing as truly perfect play.
Obviously never seen me play ey.
The lovely thing about perfection is that we can only strive for it but never truly achieve it anyways.
If you restate the concept with greatness replacing perfection you can at least somewhat decently speculate about champion power.
With great play I think champions with spiky powerlevels are amazing. A great team able to harnass lee sins early game strength or vaynes lategame strength can function so amazing and can be spectacularly entertaining.
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Alternatively (and more realistically)
lets say in SoloQ each team got one pro to play one position with the hero of their choice. Who would you choose with what hero?
GankedbyMom on Orianna for me
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On August 09 2013 03:12 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 02:03 ETisME wrote:
how do you guys learn a champion?
I am not talking about the basic combo or builds etc.
I always get lose out in lane with elise and everyone says she is a good lane bully but I keep getting out sustain like against chogath or out traded by wukong i think wukong dunks on elise all day, every day
I could see it going in her favor honestly. Probably harder for her now since she lost the armor on her spider form, but she still has a lot of poke+close range fighting potential.
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MadLife on Thresh. That would be a fun lane for me!
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On August 09 2013 03:58 Mauzel wrote:Alternatively (and more realistically) lets say in SoloQ each team got one pro to play one position with the hero of their choice. Who would you choose with what hero? GankedbyMom on Orianna for me
Faker on Kassadin
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EPT
