• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:07
CEST 08:07
KST 15:07
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 20254Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202576RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18
Community News
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced20BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8
StarCraft 2
General
#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time I offer completely free coaching services Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 2025 Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 What tournaments are world championships?
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced $5,000 WardiTV Summer Championship 2025 WardiTV Mondays FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL Dewalt's Show Matches in China
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers [G] Mineral Boosting Does 1 second matter in StarCraft?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 599 users

[Patch 3.08: Aatrox Patch] General Discussion - Page 12

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 10 11 12 13 14 380 Next
Interested in helping start an on-topic, serious League discussion thread? PM Neo to talk about how to get started.
Marahumm
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States98 Posts
June 11 2013 18:17 GMT
#221
On June 12 2013 03:09 canucks12 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 12 2013 02:59 Marahumm wrote:
In regards to the jayce / muramana debate, how do you think nerfing tear / manamune / archangel staff to only produce charges to skills that cost mana? This would prevent Jayce (And Nidalee / Elise) from spamming their stance changes with R, without completely gutting them or the items themselves. I'm trying to think how this would affect other champions that use mana as a resource but have skills that don't cost any mana, but so far I don't see it being THAT huge of a hit on them. Thoughts?


This would ruin top lane Warwick, but I'd imagine other champs would be fine...


Let's make his blood scent cost 1 mana then :3
Looks like you mashed some poor fellers dog, Sarge.
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
June 11 2013 18:19 GMT
#222
On June 12 2013 03:17 Slusher wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 12 2013 03:10 onlywonderboy wrote:
On June 12 2013 02:52 kainzero wrote:
On June 12 2013 02:25 onlywonderboy wrote:
On June 12 2013 02:01 kainzero wrote:
On June 12 2013 01:10 onlywonderboy wrote:
On June 12 2013 01:06 thenexusp wrote:
I mean, let's face it, at silver Elo, the chance that biltzcrank gives your team the shaco effect (feeds on your team, godhand on enemy team) is way higher than the chance that someone on the other team (and not your team) actually figured out that sejuani is OP.

If Sej would have had time to be played in the LCS she would have become FotM.

not sure

i have not seen her being picked or banned in chinese leagues or in SEA league. her art and lissandra are there, so unless there is some rule i'm not aware about...

i think she is somewhat susceptible to being dueled in her jungle. or maybe her laneswap ability isn't good? i don't know. she was great to pubstomp with, though.



yesterday i finally bumped into one of those elusive silver 3 solo q/challenger ranked 5s player. lol. what makes it even stranger is that the other team had 2 diamond 1s, and we had a level 28. wat. lol.

I would posit that due to NA's lack of coordination in general it would be far easier for Sej to go full pubstomp mode in the LCS setting. I guess we will never know.

if we were to approximate amumu as the pubstomper, well, i don't think that he showed up very often.
and when he did, it was chauster's amumu.

He was played a ton until the range nerf on his ult, even in OGN, that's where Curse of the Sad Bullet Time got coined.


for the record current Sej was only available for the 2nd Semifinal for OGN and she got played.

Once, and got stomped lol. But that's just more Blaze playing out of their minds recently.
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
canucks12
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada812 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-11 18:20:53
June 11 2013 18:20 GMT
#223
On June 12 2013 03:17 Marahumm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 12 2013 03:09 canucks12 wrote:
On June 12 2013 02:59 Marahumm wrote:
In regards to the jayce / muramana debate, how do you think nerfing tear / manamune / archangel staff to only produce charges to skills that cost mana? This would prevent Jayce (And Nidalee / Elise) from spamming their stance changes with R, without completely gutting them or the items themselves. I'm trying to think how this would affect other champions that use mana as a resource but have skills that don't cost any mana, but so far I don't see it being THAT huge of a hit on them. Thoughts?


This would ruin top lane Warwick, but I'd imagine other champs would be fine...


Let's make his blood scent cost 1 mana then :3


His passive stacks it btw. Muramana is really strong because he gets 5 hits off in 1.5s on his ult ^^
+ his as steroid and that he builds mostly as.
Marahumm
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States98 Posts
June 11 2013 18:21 GMT
#224
Dayum....I might have to try him out sometime. With the new wit's end too.
Looks like you mashed some poor fellers dog, Sarge.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
June 11 2013 18:23 GMT
#225
On June 12 2013 03:20 canucks12 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 12 2013 03:17 Marahumm wrote:
On June 12 2013 03:09 canucks12 wrote:
On June 12 2013 02:59 Marahumm wrote:
In regards to the jayce / muramana debate, how do you think nerfing tear / manamune / archangel staff to only produce charges to skills that cost mana? This would prevent Jayce (And Nidalee / Elise) from spamming their stance changes with R, without completely gutting them or the items themselves. I'm trying to think how this would affect other champions that use mana as a resource but have skills that don't cost any mana, but so far I don't see it being THAT huge of a hit on them. Thoughts?


This would ruin top lane Warwick, but I'd imagine other champs would be fine...


Let's make his blood scent cost 1 mana then :3


His passive stacks it btw. Muramana is really strong because he gets 5 hits off in 1.5s on his ult ^^
+ his as steroid and that he builds mostly as.

That's implying he can live long enough during his ult to get all 5 hits off.
liftlift > tsm
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
June 11 2013 18:25 GMT
#226
On June 12 2013 03:19 onlywonderboy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 12 2013 03:17 Slusher wrote:
On June 12 2013 03:10 onlywonderboy wrote:
On June 12 2013 02:52 kainzero wrote:
On June 12 2013 02:25 onlywonderboy wrote:
On June 12 2013 02:01 kainzero wrote:
On June 12 2013 01:10 onlywonderboy wrote:
On June 12 2013 01:06 thenexusp wrote:
I mean, let's face it, at silver Elo, the chance that biltzcrank gives your team the shaco effect (feeds on your team, godhand on enemy team) is way higher than the chance that someone on the other team (and not your team) actually figured out that sejuani is OP.

If Sej would have had time to be played in the LCS she would have become FotM.

not sure

i have not seen her being picked or banned in chinese leagues or in SEA league. her art and lissandra are there, so unless there is some rule i'm not aware about...

i think she is somewhat susceptible to being dueled in her jungle. or maybe her laneswap ability isn't good? i don't know. she was great to pubstomp with, though.



yesterday i finally bumped into one of those elusive silver 3 solo q/challenger ranked 5s player. lol. what makes it even stranger is that the other team had 2 diamond 1s, and we had a level 28. wat. lol.

I would posit that due to NA's lack of coordination in general it would be far easier for Sej to go full pubstomp mode in the LCS setting. I guess we will never know.

if we were to approximate amumu as the pubstomper, well, i don't think that he showed up very often.
and when he did, it was chauster's amumu.

He was played a ton until the range nerf on his ult, even in OGN, that's where Curse of the Sad Bullet Time got coined.


for the record current Sej was only available for the 2nd Semifinal for OGN and she got played.

Once, and got stomped lol. But that's just more Blaze playing out of their minds recently.


Ever jungle while in solo Q and all 3 lanes are getting crushed, especially the solos, that they literally need you to be in all 3 lanes at the same time 24/7. That is pretty much what happened in that game had nothing to do with Sej

Thats still a 33% pick/ban rate, sample size lol but I just wanted to correct the "unless there is some rule I am unaware about" the answer is yes, she was globally banned in OGN until after the first semi final (but I would guess with 100% certainty the finals will be on the patch before her nerfs, that said, She dosn't seem like a Helios jungler, Dandy is a strong possibility however, and he's never played on this patch for a live audience so for all we know he might love her.
Carrilord has arrived.
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
June 11 2013 18:32 GMT
#227
On June 12 2013 03:20 canucks12 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 12 2013 03:17 Marahumm wrote:
On June 12 2013 03:09 canucks12 wrote:
On June 12 2013 02:59 Marahumm wrote:
In regards to the jayce / muramana debate, how do you think nerfing tear / manamune / archangel staff to only produce charges to skills that cost mana? This would prevent Jayce (And Nidalee / Elise) from spamming their stance changes with R, without completely gutting them or the items themselves. I'm trying to think how this would affect other champions that use mana as a resource but have skills that don't cost any mana, but so far I don't see it being THAT huge of a hit on them. Thoughts?


This would ruin top lane Warwick, but I'd imagine other champs would be fine...


Let's make his blood scent cost 1 mana then :3


His passive stacks it btw. Muramana is really strong because he gets 5 hits off in 1.5s on his ult ^^
+ his as steroid and that he builds mostly as.


I was thinking about this at work today, mabye have Jayce W only provide on hit for the first attack?

My main concern is, Jayce has two tools right now that make him retarded, Shockblast and Muramana+W allin. If you nerf both I think he'll suck, and judging by history, pre Muramana changes Jayce was a good champion for poke comps, but not in all comps, and not OP, it's Muramana + W thats by far the bigger problem at the moment, if you can break that interaction I think you can nerf him to "competitively viable" which imo is a good place to aim.
Carrilord has arrived.
Osmoses
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Sweden5302 Posts
June 11 2013 18:39 GMT
#228
Did they... Did they BUFF kha'zix?
Excuse me hun, but what is your name? Vivian? I woke up next to you naked and, uh, did we, um?
thenexusp
Profile Joined May 2009
United States3721 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-11 18:44:58
June 11 2013 18:44 GMT
#229
On June 12 2013 03:32 Slusher wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 12 2013 03:20 canucks12 wrote:
On June 12 2013 03:17 Marahumm wrote:
On June 12 2013 03:09 canucks12 wrote:
On June 12 2013 02:59 Marahumm wrote:
In regards to the jayce / muramana debate, how do you think nerfing tear / manamune / archangel staff to only produce charges to skills that cost mana? This would prevent Jayce (And Nidalee / Elise) from spamming their stance changes with R, without completely gutting them or the items themselves. I'm trying to think how this would affect other champions that use mana as a resource but have skills that don't cost any mana, but so far I don't see it being THAT huge of a hit on them. Thoughts?


This would ruin top lane Warwick, but I'd imagine other champs would be fine...


Let's make his blood scent cost 1 mana then :3


His passive stacks it btw. Muramana is really strong because he gets 5 hits off in 1.5s on his ult ^^
+ his as steroid and that he builds mostly as.


I was thinking about this at work today, mabye have Jayce W only provide on hit for the first attack?

My main concern is, Jayce has two tools right now that make him retarded, Shockblast and Muramana+W allin. If you nerf both I think he'll suck, and judging by history, pre Muramana changes Jayce was a good champion for poke comps, but not in all comps, and not OP, it's Muramana + W thats by far the bigger problem at the moment, if you can break that interaction I think you can nerf him to "competitively viable" which imo is a good place to aim.

I thought manamune has a 3 second ICD anyway (with up to 2 "charges")? Does it not count autoattacks?
EDIT: nvm, I thought you were talking about mana charge, not the muramana passive
Jerubaal
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States7684 Posts
June 11 2013 18:46 GMT
#230
So those jungler item changes are nerfs to jungler's VS champion power?
I'm not stupid, a marauder just shot my brain.
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
June 11 2013 18:54 GMT
#231
No, since laners build them too anyway.

Hm, 2 posts till 9000... I was wondering if I'd last until the LCS, but it seems like not.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
June 11 2013 18:54 GMT
#232
I don't get why Muramana is allowed to exist anyways.

A champ is either supposed to have mana problems, or it is not. If it is supposed to have problems you are supposed to have to be weakened to make up for this (this is why Athene's was nerfed). Or, you are supposed to have to just accept that and play smart. (Ashe has mana problems, she just has to be smart and save enough mana for ult at all times).
Freeeeeeedom
eParadox
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada132 Posts
June 11 2013 18:56 GMT
#233
On June 12 2013 03:39 Osmoses wrote:
Did they... Did they BUFF kha'zix?

Kz was changed so he is played the way he was meant to be played. It allows Kz players have variety in their evolutions. They nerfed his w and buffed his q and r slightly to compensate.
Dodge The Hook - Diamond 5 - NA
Spaiku
Profile Joined July 2012
Spain1114 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-11 19:11:51
June 11 2013 19:09 GMT
#234
On June 12 2013 03:54 cLutZ wrote:
I don't get why Muramana is allowed to exist anyways.

A champ is either supposed to have mana problems, or it is not. If it is supposed to have problems you are supposed to have to be weakened to make up for this (this is why Athene's was nerfed). Or, you are supposed to have to just accept that and play smart. (Ashe has mana problems, she just has to be smart and save enough mana for ult at all times).

Agree with this

Nerfing Tear/Muramana/Seraph's would help to tone down problematic champions like Ryze, Jayce and KhaZix
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
June 11 2013 19:13 GMT
#235
On June 12 2013 04:09 Spaiku wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 12 2013 03:54 cLutZ wrote:
I don't get why Muramana is allowed to exist anyways.

A champ is either supposed to have mana problems, or it is not. If it is supposed to have problems you are supposed to have to be weakened to make up for this (this is why Athene's was nerfed). Or, you are supposed to have to just accept that and play smart. (Ashe has mana problems, she just has to be smart and save enough mana for ult at all times).

Agree with this

Nerfing Tear/Muramana/Seraph's would help to tone down problematic champions like Ryze, Jayce and KhaZix


Yorick.
Carrilord has arrived.
Vanka
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
China1336 Posts
June 11 2013 19:14 GMT
#236
Speaking of tear, late game amumu, let's say you need one damage item, what do you buy?

Last game I bought a 35 minute Archangel's because I was going oom and I needed the damage to kill the khazix who was always diving and killing our draven. It worked out that game since I had 40% CDR anyway so I cleaned up most fights, being the last to die and because I could spiderman bandage down people with 6 or whatever second cd on bandage.

The only issue was by the end, I bought the item so late that it wasn't fully charged at the end, even with making amumu cry constantly with the toggle.

So far the options I think are viable are AA, abyssal, and athene's. Abyssal synergizes well with his passive, if you actually have the presence of mind to auto people in teamfights, athene's gives cdr, mana (which amumu likes), and mr, while AA gives the most AP and the most mana, plus tankiness if you eventually get it stacked.
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
June 11 2013 19:16 GMT
#237
seraphs is actually decent if you can charge it since amumu has mana problems if you survive a long time and the shield makes it nice for tanking anyway

void staff, abyssal both viable depending, deathcap used to be but probalby not now that it doesnt give that much ap on its own
kongoline
Profile Joined February 2012
6318 Posts
June 11 2013 19:24 GMT
#238
how the fk do u do any dmg with jungle lee past early game, its always like this i crush other jungler early but mid game hec, sej, naut w/e buys their ice born or other tanky item when i have sightstone+ bulwark and cant even scratch them while they shit on me and my team mates
Nos-
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Canada12016 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-11 19:30:17
June 11 2013 19:29 GMT
#239
On June 12 2013 04:24 kongoline wrote:
how the fk do u do any dmg with jungle lee past early game, its always like this i crush other jungler early but mid game hec, sej, naut w/e buys their ice born or other tanky item when i have sightstone+ bulwark and cant even scratch them while they shit on me and my team mates

you either get LW if your team really needs you to do some damage on lee or you resign and accept the fact that you'll just be utility/tank

edit: on the other hand make insec plays and it wouldn't even matter
Bronze player stuck in platinum
AsmodeusXI
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States15536 Posts
June 11 2013 19:30 GMT
#240
On June 12 2013 04:29 Nos- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 12 2013 04:24 kongoline wrote:
how the fk do u do any dmg with jungle lee past early game, its always like this i crush other jungler early but mid game hec, sej, naut w/e buys their ice born or other tanky item when i have sightstone+ bulwark and cant even scratch them while they shit on me and my team mates

you either get LW if your team really needs you to do some damage on lee or you resign and accept the fact that you'll just be utility/tank

edit: on the other hand make insec plays and it wouldn't even matter


I was going to say, I think the only way to play late-game Lee Sin is to MAEK TEH PLAYZ
WriterTL > RL. BNet: Asmodeus#1187 - LoL: DJForeclosure - Steam: asmodeusxi | www.n3rddimension.com
Prev 1 10 11 12 13 14 380 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 53m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft788
Nina 291
ProTech39
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 1682
Larva 440
Backho 185
scan(afreeca) 84
zelot 76
Sexy 58
sSak 49
IntoTheRainbow 6
League of Legends
JimRising 774
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor182
Other Games
summit1g8808
ViBE175
RuFF_SC2104
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1392
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH275
• practicex 38
• Light_VIP 19
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota264
League of Legends
• Lourlo1364
Upcoming Events
FEL
2h 53m
Krystianer vs sOs
SKillous vs ArT
MaNa vs Elazer
Spirit vs Gerald
Clem vs TBD
uThermal vs TBD
Reynor vs TBD
Lambo vs TBD
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
7h 53m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
11h 53m
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
Online Event
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Non-Korean Championship
BSL 20 Team Wars
FEL Cracov 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.