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On June 12 2013 04:14 Vanka wrote:
Speaking of tear, late game amumu, let's say you need one damage item, what do you buy?
Last game I bought a 35 minute Archangel's because I was going oom and I needed the damage to kill the khazix who was always diving and killing our draven. It worked out that game since I had 40% CDR anyway so I cleaned up most fights, being the last to die and because I could spiderman bandage down people with 6 or whatever second cd on bandage.
The only issue was by the end, I bought the item so late that it wasn't fully charged at the end, even with making amumu cry constantly with the toggle.
So far the options I think are viable are AA, abyssal, and athene's. Abyssal synergizes well with his passive, if you actually have the presence of mind to auto people in teamfights, athene's gives cdr, mana (which amumu likes), and mr, while AA gives the most AP and the most mana, plus tankiness if you eventually get it stacked.
I prefer Athene's. You get more AP out of Archangel's, but 20% CDR means your team waits 22 fewer seconds for your ultimate (which is a lifetime late game), and you get to spam more stuns/tantrums etc. It also has defensive stats which don't depend upon you having mana. However, Abyssal is really strong if you have a lot of magic damage on your team.
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On June 12 2013 04:13 Slusher wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 04:09 Spaiku wrote:On June 12 2013 03:54 cLutZ wrote:
I don't get why Muramana is allowed to exist anyways.
A champ is either supposed to have mana problems, or it is not. If it is supposed to have problems you are supposed to have to be weakened to make up for this (this is why Athene's was nerfed). Or, you are supposed to have to just accept that and play smart. (Ashe has mana problems, she just has to be smart and save enough mana for ult at all times). Agree with this Nerfing Tear/Muramana/Seraph's would help to tone down problematic champions like Ryze, Jayce and KhaZix Yorick.
I don't agree that Ryze is a problem. He is supposed to have the mana curve that he gets with Tear/AA/Manamune buildpaths. That IS Ryze. The problem is not Ryze+Tear, it is POSSIBLY that his earlygame isn't painful enough since the Boots changes.
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Is the patch live on EUW yet?
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On June 12 2013 03:54 cLutZ wrote:
I don't get why Muramana is allowed to exist anyways.
A champ is either supposed to have mana problems, or it is not. If it is supposed to have problems you are supposed to have to be weakened to make up for this (this is why Athene's was nerfed). Or, you are supposed to have to just accept that and play smart. (Ashe has mana problems, she just has to be smart and save enough mana for ult at all times).
Well 700 gold spent on mana in early game is the cost.
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On June 12 2013 04:37 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 04:13 Slusher wrote:On June 12 2013 04:09 Spaiku wrote:On June 12 2013 03:54 cLutZ wrote:
I don't get why Muramana is allowed to exist anyways.
A champ is either supposed to have mana problems, or it is not. If it is supposed to have problems you are supposed to have to be weakened to make up for this (this is why Athene's was nerfed). Or, you are supposed to have to just accept that and play smart. (Ashe has mana problems, she just has to be smart and save enough mana for ult at all times). Agree with this Nerfing Tear/Muramana/Seraph's would help to tone down problematic champions like Ryze, Jayce and KhaZix Yorick. I don't agree that Ryze is a problem. He is supposed to have the mana curve that he gets with Tear/AA/Manamune buildpaths. That IS Ryze. The problem is not Ryze+Tear, it is POSSIBLY that his earlygame isn't painful enough since the Boots changes.
Agreed, Ryze's whole concept is be around stacking mana and getting more powerful with that for a curve. Jayce, Khazix, and Yorick all don't scale with mana directly for their dmg and they should have mana problems because their kits are so good. But tears completely negates that problem and then they just snowball out of control if you didn't completely stomp on them in the lane phase.
On June 12 2013 04:45 Leonite7 wrote:
Is the patch live on EUW yet?
Not even live on NA yet.
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On June 12 2013 04:14 Vanka wrote:
Speaking of tear, late game amumu, let's say you need one damage item, what do you buy?
Last game I bought a 35 minute Archangel's because I was going oom and I needed the damage to kill the khazix who was always diving and killing our draven. It worked out that game since I had 40% CDR anyway so I cleaned up most fights, being the last to die and because I could spiderman bandage down people with 6 or whatever second cd on bandage.
The only issue was by the end, I bought the item so late that it wasn't fully charged at the end, even with making amumu cry constantly with the toggle.
So far the options I think are viable are AA, abyssal, and athene's. Abyssal synergizes well with his passive, if you actually have the presence of mind to auto people in teamfights, athene's gives cdr, mana (which amumu likes), and mr, while AA gives the most AP and the most mana, plus tankiness if you eventually get it stacked.
rylais
cry slowing tears op
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On June 12 2013 04:46 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 04:14 Vanka wrote:
Speaking of tear, late game amumu, let's say you need one damage item, what do you buy?
Last game I bought a 35 minute Archangel's because I was going oom and I needed the damage to kill the khazix who was always diving and killing our draven. It worked out that game since I had 40% CDR anyway so I cleaned up most fights, being the last to die and because I could spiderman bandage down people with 6 or whatever second cd on bandage.
The only issue was by the end, I bought the item so late that it wasn't fully charged at the end, even with making amumu cry constantly with the toggle.
So far the options I think are viable are AA, abyssal, and athene's. Abyssal synergizes well with his passive, if you actually have the presence of mind to auto people in teamfights, athene's gives cdr, mana (which amumu likes), and mr, while AA gives the most AP and the most mana, plus tankiness if you eventually get it stacked. rylais cry slowing tears op
Rylais, Liandry's, Sunfire, Spellvamp jungle item (forgot name), Merc/Tabi. Then 6th item is either Abyssal for MR or FH for armor. Never thought about getting 40% cdr on Amumu. His only spell to take adv of it would be ult and bandage toss really. E refreshes quick enough being auto'd and W is just a toggle.
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Pootie too good!4331 Posts
na.lolesports.com/season3/summerpromotion/articles/team-changes-between-splits
Great article for anyone looking to get a recap on all the team changes between splits.
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When the introduced manamune turning into muramana they originally said it was to attempt to include an alternate build path for some champions like Ez or Corki so they would feel less punished for building it if you wanted to play a spell-happy version of the champion, instead of an auto attack focused one.
It worked fairly well for Ez, it didn't work at all for Corki
I think it should ideally be: Manamune Jayce pokes you a lot but is manageable damage, and doesn't mind so much if he misses, something like Bloodthirster Jayce would rely on his poke hitting or he'd run OOM, but would do much more damage.
Right now Manamune Jayce pokes you all day AND deletes you once he connects. So I guess he needs to have his base damage lowered but scaling increased? That way if you like the all-in on connect aspect of Jayce, you build BT, if you like to poke all day and disengage you build tear/CDR.
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On June 12 2013 04:45 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 03:54 cLutZ wrote:
I don't get why Muramana is allowed to exist anyways.
A champ is either supposed to have mana problems, or it is not. If it is supposed to have problems you are supposed to have to be weakened to make up for this (this is why Athene's was nerfed). Or, you are supposed to have to just accept that and play smart. (Ashe has mana problems, she just has to be smart and save enough mana for ult at all times). Well 700 gold spent on mana in early game is the cost.
That would be a legit cost if we were talking about a champ like Jax who cannot choose when to engage/disengage. The Muramana problem champs don't have that trouble. Jayce, Yorik, and old Khazix control the lane so well when they have the mana to spam spells.
This is why Ryze is fine, because he gets Dictated to Early game (you could argue that its not enough anymore because tear is cheaper and Sapphire/charm starts are legit). Oh by the way he also can't charge tear for free in base/running to lane, he has to target enemies/jungle camps.
700 G spent on mana is only a cost if you are super susceptible to all-ins, and have little control over when those occur.
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On June 12 2013 04:54 Lounge wrote:
When the introduced manamune turning into muramana they originally said it was to attempt to include an alternate build path for some champions like Ez or Corki so they would feel less punished for building it if you wanted to play a spell-happy version of the champion, instead of an auto attack focused one.
It worked fairly well for Ez, it didn't work at all for Corki
I think it should ideally be: Manamune Jayce pokes you a lot but is manageable damage, and doesn't mind so much if he misses, something like Bloodthirster Jayce would rely on his poke hitting or he'd run OOM, but would do much more damage.
Right now Manamune Jayce pokes you all day AND deletes you once he connects. So I guess he needs to have his base damage lowered but scaling increased? That way if you like the all-in on connect aspect of Jayce, you build BT, if you like to poke all day and disengage you build tear/CDR.
the whole "Deleting" part has nothing to do with Jayce's base damage/ratios and everything to do with max attack speed (W) + Manamura active @ 16-20 min, then a good jayce can snowball this into 5-6 items by 30 min and then that IS a scaling issue but for a different reason.
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United States23745 Posts
On June 12 2013 04:51 JonGalt wrote:
na.lolesports.com/season3/summerpromotion/articles/team-changes-between-splits
Great article for anyone looking to get a recap on all the team changes between splits.
Edward to Curse, nothing else matters huehuehue.
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But that's 700 is equivalent to oppurtunity cost of what they could've done with like dblade and pots.
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On June 12 2013 05:00 wei2coolman wrote:
But that's 700 is equivalent to oppurtunity cost of what they could've done with like dblade and pots.
if Yorick came back to lane with a Dblade, I'd be D-lighted.
to be fair I think Yorick kinda needs tear I mean just look at how nitch he is now despite being super easy to dominate lane with (esp now with elder lizard). the problem is like he said, these champions have tools that make mana every bit as good as a Dblade, and then they get a crazy item 15 min later for having bought it.
Pretend any of these champions came back to a lane with Chalice and ask yourself how balanced Tear/Manamune/Muramana really is.
edit: as an aside what if tear before upgrade was mana stacking only no regen, then it would truely have opportunity cost?
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On June 12 2013 04:59 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 04:51 JonGalt wrote:
na.lolesports.com/season3/summerpromotion/articles/team-changes-between-splits
Great article for anyone looking to get a recap on all the team changes between splits. Edward to Curse, nothing else matters huehuehue.
I'd say nien to clg top, rather than replacing Cop should count.
man niedward would be a sick lane
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United States23745 Posts
On June 12 2013 05:10 Dgiese wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 04:59 onlywonderboy wrote:On June 12 2013 04:51 JonGalt wrote:
na.lolesports.com/season3/summerpromotion/articles/team-changes-between-splits
Great article for anyone looking to get a recap on all the team changes between splits. Edward to Curse, nothing else matters huehuehue. I'd say nien to clg top, rather than replacing Cop should count. man niedward would be a sick lane
No arguments here. This is Cop's last chance to prove himself. He usually played solid despite a questionable support, but if he doesn't improve with Edward I think he might be in trouble.
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On June 12 2013 05:00 wei2coolman wrote:
But that's 700 is equivalent to oppurtunity cost of what they could've done with like dblade and pots.
But what is that cost? The goal of everyone is to avoid buying items like Dblade as much as possible. If you buy Dblade you need to do something with it.
Your point makes sense on Ezreal because he can't just push and back. He can poke you out of lane or disengage if you try to all in if he goes for tear.
Jayce/Kha(pre these new changes) especially can waveclear (while possibly chipping you down), poke, and disengage, with relatively strong all-ins even with tear. Tear turns them into Zed, who also happens to be a problem.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
AD Sona is well and truly dead now. Fuck her support role, Riot just give me a bonus AD ratio on her Q powerchord! Please!
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top/mid nunu and dem 400g doran rings
challenger here i come
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TSM really bringing out the smack talk at E3. Xpecial has also been a lot more outspoken recently.
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EPT
