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Looks like we're back to status quo. Hope more of you lurkers unburrow and talk with us. :3 If you have any issues or comments about the new design, feel free to PM Neo. |
On May 21 2013 05:16 upperbound wrote:
Okay what's the proper response to this situation:
I'm Irelia top vs. Vlad. I'm giving smiteless leash at blue and vlad starts pushing the lane before i get there. I just farm for a bit, letting the lane push slightly, planning on letting the wave reset at level 4 and then going aggressive. Naut does the 3:05 gank, no damage, i just back up to my tower. I have river brush warded, and naut is just gonna camp. My jungler is camping bot. Vlad shoves the wave to tower, and Naut just comes walking through lane. I back up behind tower into exp range but out of range of cs. Naut continues to just walk at me. My jungler is still bot despite me asking for help.
Do you:
- Leave tower and lose all the cs and exp.
- Try to trade kills and hope to bury the junglers' buffs?
- Something else I haven't thought of.
I traded kills, but I couldn't even go back to lane afterward. It became clear that I was going to die no matter what, so I tried to die before Naut (even giving up the first blood), but I died just after and Vlad got the buffs. Also, my team continued to not come top, and Vlad farmed another wave past tower. When I got back to lane, I was barely level 3, and Vlad was more than halfway to 6 with double buffs, and I couldn't do anything. I feel like that would have probably been the outcome no matter what, though. I'm just confused.
Vlad being able to shove to your turret pre 7 is a little strange against Irelia. If you saw Naut is going to camp, you probably should've prevented the wave as much as you can because a full shoved wave is license to dive with a Vlad. (since he can just pool the aggro after soaking two -three hits). You're on blue side, so it's more natural that your jungler is swinging bot and mid. Especially because once you get behind in Irelia vs Vlad, he really can't offer a whole lot of ganks for you. In fact, I can tell you from jungler side, I absolutely can't give you a gank if their Vlad is full and you're like half with a full wave on their side because all that will do is bait your summoners. The best I would be able to do is relieve pressure. I generally try to swing top after my 1-3 smiteless clear as jungler though because I try to countergank the lane but since your jungler didn't do that you basically needed to make sure you don't get into a bad position in the first place. In terms of top lane preference, I try to trade kills and later stabilize by eating wolves if jungler is camping mid/bot. In your event, it sounded like you got screwed with Vlad getting the double buffs because two levels+ double buffs is impossible for Irelia vs Vlad =(.
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On May 21 2013 05:46 Alzadar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2013 05:38 SnK-Arcbound wrote:On May 21 2013 05:16 upperbound wrote:
Okay what's the proper response to this situation:
I'm Irelia top vs. Vlad. I'm giving smiteless leash at blue and vlad starts pushing the lane before i get there. I just farm for a bit, letting the lane push slightly, planning on letting the wave reset at level 4 and then going aggressive. Naut does the 3:05 gank, no damage, i just back up to my tower. I have river brush warded, and naut is just gonna camp. My jungler is camping bot. Vlad shoves the wave to tower, and Naut just comes walking through lane. I back up behind tower into exp range but out of range of cs. Naut continues to just walk at me. My jungler is still bot despite me asking for help.
Do you:
- Leave tower and lose all the cs and exp.
- Try to trade kills and hope to bury the junglers' buffs?
- Something else I haven't thought of.
I traded kills, but I couldn't even go back to lane afterward. It became clear that I was going to die no matter what, so I tried to die before Naut (even giving up the first blood), but I died just after and Vlad got the buffs. Also, my team continued to not come top, and Vlad farmed another wave past tower. When I got back to lane, I was barely level 3, and Vlad was more than halfway to 6 with double buffs, and I couldn't do anything. I feel like that would have probably been the outcome no matter what, though. I'm just confused. Trading kills is fine. You can be really fucked in your lane, just as long as your jungler does the same to a different lane. If their jungler applies more pressure on lanes then yours, it isn't your fault that you're losing your lane. If you strictly lose 1v1, it isn't your junglers fault you're behind in your lane. If vlad is shoving, you should either shove back, pick a champion that can't get shoved in, or make sure your jungler is there to keep him off the turret. Atleast two of these options are entirely in your control, and if you picked your lane but didn't account for this possibility, it's still entirely your fault. Just so we are clear on all your responsibilities in a lane. There's no champion that can prevent being shoved to tower at level 3 once the minions start snowballing. I've had junglers who when I tell them not to gank because there's a triple wave pushing at me, tell me to start pushing back. Yeah alright I'll just start tanking these minions that hit me for 300 dmg a second, I'm sure my opponent will be nice enough to sit back and leave me be. With Purple side top often taking Wraiths/Golems, this is really common. A lot of champions can zone you off creeps when they hit level 2, and then you just have to wait because there's no way to approach the wave.
1) Jayce
2) Vlad can't zone you off creeps when he hits level 2.
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Well, but if you instead get the wave pushing the other way the situation is even worse, because then Naut walks into your bush, and you can't reach the wave. He can be there for 1-2 minutes, or back after 5 seconds. There is no way for you to find out unless your jungler comes top.
Generally speaking, trading kills in such a way that their laner survives is probably bad for you, because that will always set you behind pretty far. In that situation, i don't think there is a good answer unless you see a way to not only trade kills, but get both of them in a dive or get one and don't die. You either back and lose 2-3 waves and maybe your turret and probably can't lane against that guy again, or you stay and can't lane against that dude again afterwards.
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On May 21 2013 06:03 KissBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2013 05:16 upperbound wrote:
Okay what's the proper response to this situation:
I'm Irelia top vs. Vlad. I'm giving smiteless leash at blue and vlad starts pushing the lane before i get there. I just farm for a bit, letting the lane push slightly, planning on letting the wave reset at level 4 and then going aggressive. Naut does the 3:05 gank, no damage, i just back up to my tower. I have river brush warded, and naut is just gonna camp. My jungler is camping bot. Vlad shoves the wave to tower, and Naut just comes walking through lane. I back up behind tower into exp range but out of range of cs. Naut continues to just walk at me. My jungler is still bot despite me asking for help.
Do you:
- Leave tower and lose all the cs and exp.
- Try to trade kills and hope to bury the junglers' buffs?
- Something else I haven't thought of.
I traded kills, but I couldn't even go back to lane afterward. It became clear that I was going to die no matter what, so I tried to die before Naut (even giving up the first blood), but I died just after and Vlad got the buffs. Also, my team continued to not come top, and Vlad farmed another wave past tower. When I got back to lane, I was barely level 3, and Vlad was more than halfway to 6 with double buffs, and I couldn't do anything. I feel like that would have probably been the outcome no matter what, though. I'm just confused. Vlad being able to shove to your turret pre 7 is a little strange against Irelia. If you saw Naut is going to camp, you probably should've prevented the wave as much as you can because a full shoved wave is license to dive with a Vlad. (since he can just pool the aggro after soaking two -three hits). You're on blue side, so it's more natural that your jungler is swinging bot and mid. Especially because once you get behind in Irelia vs Vlad, he really can't offer a whole lot of ganks for you. In fact, I can tell you from jungler side, I absolutely can't give you a gank if their Vlad is full and you're like half with a full wave on their side because all that will do is bait your summoners. The best I would be able to do is relieve pressure. I generally try to swing top after my 1-3 smiteless clear as jungler though because I try to countergank the lane but since your jungler didn't do that you basically needed to make sure you don't get into a bad position in the first place. In terms of top lane preference, I try to trade kills and later stabilize by eating wolves if jungler is camping mid/bot. In your event, it sounded like you got screwed with Vlad getting the double buffs because two levels+ double buffs is impossible for Irelia vs Vlad =(.
Were you half life when the engage happened vs full life Vlad? If so that's something you can work on: not starting a doran's blade build lol.
As many Ranged champs like Kayle Teemo, if Naut walks up to you you can hurt him quite a bit before he gets to you. Personally I think 2man level 3/4 dives are very difficult to pull off. Pros usually do 3 and they're risky because if there's a counterjungle it can easily swing to two kills for the enemy team.
Without any preparation like teleport to return to lane or barrier to make the gank harder you're really screwed to ganks. The kill on Naut shouldn't have given Vlad too much of an advantage though.
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/wfPIoRA.jpg) supporting esports a slice at a time.
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Shy has a new passive on the PBE, related to her previous passive being rolled into the corresponding abilities:
Shyvana Passive: Dragonborn - Shyvana gains 5 bonus Armor and Magic Resistance, increasing by 1 per level. These bonuses are increased while Shyvana is in Dragon Form.
Seems to be quite the buff from a tankiness perspective, also her autos generating 2/3/4 fury means that she can be much more liberal with ult usage. Added to the jungle spawn changes, I'm guessing we'll be seeing more Shy in the next patch.
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Question to everyone. Is winning games harder on AP mids like Ori than on bruisers/AD mids. I would ask this in simple question thread but that place seems ghost town.
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On May 21 2013 06:18 wei2coolman wrote: supporting esports a slice at a time.
uuggg I'm so jealous. They dont deliver to my place and not in walking distance to pickup 
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On May 21 2013 06:20 Requizen wrote:Shy has a new passive on the PBE, related to her previous passive being rolled into the corresponding abilities: Show nested quote +Shyvana Passive: Dragonborn - Shyvana gains 5 bonus Armor and Magic Resistance, increasing by 1 per level. These bonuses are increased while Shyvana is in Dragon Form. Seems to be quite the buff from a tankiness perspective, also her autos generating 2/3/4 fury means that she can be much more liberal with ult usage. Added to the jungle spawn changes, I'm guessing we'll be seeing more Shy in the next patch.
Been seeing some shyv toplane on streams; she split pushes ridiculously well. If she gets early advantage she turns into singed, except better tower pushing abilities.
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On May 21 2013 06:05 KissBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2013 05:46 Alzadar wrote:On May 21 2013 05:38 SnK-Arcbound wrote:On May 21 2013 05:16 upperbound wrote:
Okay what's the proper response to this situation:
I'm Irelia top vs. Vlad. I'm giving smiteless leash at blue and vlad starts pushing the lane before i get there. I just farm for a bit, letting the lane push slightly, planning on letting the wave reset at level 4 and then going aggressive. Naut does the 3:05 gank, no damage, i just back up to my tower. I have river brush warded, and naut is just gonna camp. My jungler is camping bot. Vlad shoves the wave to tower, and Naut just comes walking through lane. I back up behind tower into exp range but out of range of cs. Naut continues to just walk at me. My jungler is still bot despite me asking for help.
Do you:
- Leave tower and lose all the cs and exp.
- Try to trade kills and hope to bury the junglers' buffs?
- Something else I haven't thought of.
I traded kills, but I couldn't even go back to lane afterward. It became clear that I was going to die no matter what, so I tried to die before Naut (even giving up the first blood), but I died just after and Vlad got the buffs. Also, my team continued to not come top, and Vlad farmed another wave past tower. When I got back to lane, I was barely level 3, and Vlad was more than halfway to 6 with double buffs, and I couldn't do anything. I feel like that would have probably been the outcome no matter what, though. I'm just confused. Trading kills is fine. You can be really fucked in your lane, just as long as your jungler does the same to a different lane. If their jungler applies more pressure on lanes then yours, it isn't your fault that you're losing your lane. If you strictly lose 1v1, it isn't your junglers fault you're behind in your lane. If vlad is shoving, you should either shove back, pick a champion that can't get shoved in, or make sure your jungler is there to keep him off the turret. Atleast two of these options are entirely in your control, and if you picked your lane but didn't account for this possibility, it's still entirely your fault. Just so we are clear on all your responsibilities in a lane. There's no champion that can prevent being shoved to tower at level 3 once the minions start snowballing. I've had junglers who when I tell them not to gank because there's a triple wave pushing at me, tell me to start pushing back. Yeah alright I'll just start tanking these minions that hit me for 300 dmg a second, I'm sure my opponent will be nice enough to sit back and leave me be. With Purple side top often taking Wraiths/Golems, this is really common. A lot of champions can zone you off creeps when they hit level 2, and then you just have to wait because there's no way to approach the wave. 1) Jayce 2) Vlad can't zone you off creeps when he hits level 2.
Vlad plus a jungler that's practically standing in lane can zone you, though. the inevitable dive would have been worse if I took damage from another gank try. Plus, the vlad hit 3 before the gank/dive due to minion advantage.
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Unless you misplayed horribly/opened badly, I don't understand how vlad could get an irelia to half health early on, you should be punishing vlad hard before 3 minutes because you know even if naut comes, you can blow a flash if he hooks, and then he can't jungle for shit.
That aside, if you get low like that with that many creeps pushing in, you're fucked if your jungler doesn't come. Naut vlad shouldn't be able to dive a full HP under turret because they don't exactly do the highest amounts of damage early on, and you can stun&juke with Q/flash. Don't go for the CS if he's just sitting at your turret though, just position yourself so you can't get hooked.
Just a combination of not playing the lane correctly, and your jungler not recognizing the situation.
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On May 21 2013 06:05 KissBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2013 05:46 Alzadar wrote:On May 21 2013 05:38 SnK-Arcbound wrote:On May 21 2013 05:16 upperbound wrote:
Okay what's the proper response to this situation:
I'm Irelia top vs. Vlad. I'm giving smiteless leash at blue and vlad starts pushing the lane before i get there. I just farm for a bit, letting the lane push slightly, planning on letting the wave reset at level 4 and then going aggressive. Naut does the 3:05 gank, no damage, i just back up to my tower. I have river brush warded, and naut is just gonna camp. My jungler is camping bot. Vlad shoves the wave to tower, and Naut just comes walking through lane. I back up behind tower into exp range but out of range of cs. Naut continues to just walk at me. My jungler is still bot despite me asking for help.
Do you:
- Leave tower and lose all the cs and exp.
- Try to trade kills and hope to bury the junglers' buffs?
- Something else I haven't thought of.
I traded kills, but I couldn't even go back to lane afterward. It became clear that I was going to die no matter what, so I tried to die before Naut (even giving up the first blood), but I died just after and Vlad got the buffs. Also, my team continued to not come top, and Vlad farmed another wave past tower. When I got back to lane, I was barely level 3, and Vlad was more than halfway to 6 with double buffs, and I couldn't do anything. I feel like that would have probably been the outcome no matter what, though. I'm just confused. Trading kills is fine. You can be really fucked in your lane, just as long as your jungler does the same to a different lane. If their jungler applies more pressure on lanes then yours, it isn't your fault that you're losing your lane. If you strictly lose 1v1, it isn't your junglers fault you're behind in your lane. If vlad is shoving, you should either shove back, pick a champion that can't get shoved in, or make sure your jungler is there to keep him off the turret. Atleast two of these options are entirely in your control, and if you picked your lane but didn't account for this possibility, it's still entirely your fault. Just so we are clear on all your responsibilities in a lane. There's no champion that can prevent being shoved to tower at level 3 once the minions start snowballing. I've had junglers who when I tell them not to gank because there's a triple wave pushing at me, tell me to start pushing back. Yeah alright I'll just start tanking these minions that hit me for 300 dmg a second, I'm sure my opponent will be nice enough to sit back and leave me be. With Purple side top often taking Wraiths/Golems, this is really common. A lot of champions can zone you off creeps when they hit level 2, and then you just have to wait because there's no way to approach the wave. 1) Jayce 2) Vlad can't zone you off creeps when he hits level 2.
Even the King of Bullshit can't clear wave at level 3, he needs level 5 or something.
And yeah Vlad can't zone much before 4, bad example. But many can.
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I thought we hated Papa Johns because slave wages or something.
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Papa Johns:
Tier 2 - 25 Legendary LoL Skins or D2L Ticket/Courier Bundles to fans who've purchased pizza
O.O goddamn sonnnnnnnnnnnnnn
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On May 21 2013 06:20 Requizen wrote:Shy has a new passive on the PBE, related to her previous passive being rolled into the corresponding abilities: Show nested quote +Shyvana Passive: Dragonborn - Shyvana gains 5 bonus Armor and Magic Resistance, increasing by 1 per level. These bonuses are increased while Shyvana is in Dragon Form. Seems to be quite the buff from a tankiness perspective, also her autos generating 2/3/4 fury means that she can be much more liberal with ult usage. Added to the jungle spawn changes, I'm guessing we'll be seeing more Shy in the next patch.
No, its Identical to what it was before.
She lost the resists from her R. Just rearranged things, just helps her first clear very very marginally.
At level 6 instead of 10 regular MR/Armor she gets 11. At level 11 she gets 16 instead of 15. At 16 she gets she gets 21 instead of 20. Very very very marginal bonus, and you get +23 at level 18 instead of earlier.
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On May 21 2013 06:21 Numy wrote:
Question to everyone. Is winning games harder on AP mids like Ori than on bruisers/AD mids. I would ask this in simple question thread but that place seems ghost town.
Generally just play whatever you're best with and fits into the comp - even with Kha'Zix and Zed in the game there are still plenty of viable AP mids. Neither is harder to win with assuming you're playing against equally skilled opponents imo.
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On May 21 2013 06:53 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2013 06:20 Requizen wrote:Shy has a new passive on the PBE, related to her previous passive being rolled into the corresponding abilities: Shyvana Passive: Dragonborn - Shyvana gains 5 bonus Armor and Magic Resistance, increasing by 1 per level. These bonuses are increased while Shyvana is in Dragon Form. Seems to be quite the buff from a tankiness perspective, also her autos generating 2/3/4 fury means that she can be much more liberal with ult usage. Added to the jungle spawn changes, I'm guessing we'll be seeing more Shy in the next patch. No, its Identical to what it was before. She lost the resists from her R. Just rearranged things, just helps her first clear very very marginally.
It's more resists at all points in the game, except at levels where she'd previously get her ult, where it's identical. Maybe not a lot, but especially in the first few levels it will be noticeable I think.
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On May 21 2013 05:46 Alzadar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2013 05:38 SnK-Arcbound wrote:On May 21 2013 05:16 upperbound wrote:
Okay what's the proper response to this situation:
I'm Irelia top vs. Vlad. I'm giving smiteless leash at blue and vlad starts pushing the lane before i get there. I just farm for a bit, letting the lane push slightly, planning on letting the wave reset at level 4 and then going aggressive. Naut does the 3:05 gank, no damage, i just back up to my tower. I have river brush warded, and naut is just gonna camp. My jungler is camping bot. Vlad shoves the wave to tower, and Naut just comes walking through lane. I back up behind tower into exp range but out of range of cs. Naut continues to just walk at me. My jungler is still bot despite me asking for help.
Do you:
- Leave tower and lose all the cs and exp.
- Try to trade kills and hope to bury the junglers' buffs?
- Something else I haven't thought of.
I traded kills, but I couldn't even go back to lane afterward. It became clear that I was going to die no matter what, so I tried to die before Naut (even giving up the first blood), but I died just after and Vlad got the buffs. Also, my team continued to not come top, and Vlad farmed another wave past tower. When I got back to lane, I was barely level 3, and Vlad was more than halfway to 6 with double buffs, and I couldn't do anything. I feel like that would have probably been the outcome no matter what, though. I'm just confused. Trading kills is fine. You can be really fucked in your lane, just as long as your jungler does the same to a different lane. If their jungler applies more pressure on lanes then yours, it isn't your fault that you're losing your lane. If you strictly lose 1v1, it isn't your junglers fault you're behind in your lane. If vlad is shoving, you should either shove back, pick a champion that can't get shoved in, or make sure your jungler is there to keep him off the turret. Atleast two of these options are entirely in your control, and if you picked your lane but didn't account for this possibility, it's still entirely your fault. Just so we are clear on all your responsibilities in a lane. There's no champion that can prevent being shoved to tower at level 3 once the minions start snowballing. I've had junglers who when I tell them not to gank because there's a triple wave pushing at me, tell me to start pushing back. Yeah alright I'll just start tanking these minions that hit me for 300 dmg a second, I'm sure my opponent will be nice enough to sit back and leave me be. With Purple side top often taking Wraiths/Golems, this is really common. A lot of champions can zone you off creeps when they hit level 2, and then you just have to wait because there's no way to approach the wave.
You do realize that it's incredibly obvious that one player is pushing right? They auto the minions, and spam their spells. The minions don't just suddenly die. Every champion can prevent pushing. You are just wrong.
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On May 21 2013 06:57 SnK-Arcbound wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2013 05:46 Alzadar wrote:On May 21 2013 05:38 SnK-Arcbound wrote:On May 21 2013 05:16 upperbound wrote:
Okay what's the proper response to this situation:
I'm Irelia top vs. Vlad. I'm giving smiteless leash at blue and vlad starts pushing the lane before i get there. I just farm for a bit, letting the lane push slightly, planning on letting the wave reset at level 4 and then going aggressive. Naut does the 3:05 gank, no damage, i just back up to my tower. I have river brush warded, and naut is just gonna camp. My jungler is camping bot. Vlad shoves the wave to tower, and Naut just comes walking through lane. I back up behind tower into exp range but out of range of cs. Naut continues to just walk at me. My jungler is still bot despite me asking for help.
Do you:
- Leave tower and lose all the cs and exp.
- Try to trade kills and hope to bury the junglers' buffs?
- Something else I haven't thought of.
I traded kills, but I couldn't even go back to lane afterward. It became clear that I was going to die no matter what, so I tried to die before Naut (even giving up the first blood), but I died just after and Vlad got the buffs. Also, my team continued to not come top, and Vlad farmed another wave past tower. When I got back to lane, I was barely level 3, and Vlad was more than halfway to 6 with double buffs, and I couldn't do anything. I feel like that would have probably been the outcome no matter what, though. I'm just confused. Trading kills is fine. You can be really fucked in your lane, just as long as your jungler does the same to a different lane. If their jungler applies more pressure on lanes then yours, it isn't your fault that you're losing your lane. If you strictly lose 1v1, it isn't your junglers fault you're behind in your lane. If vlad is shoving, you should either shove back, pick a champion that can't get shoved in, or make sure your jungler is there to keep him off the turret. Atleast two of these options are entirely in your control, and if you picked your lane but didn't account for this possibility, it's still entirely your fault. Just so we are clear on all your responsibilities in a lane. There's no champion that can prevent being shoved to tower at level 3 once the minions start snowballing. I've had junglers who when I tell them not to gank because there's a triple wave pushing at me, tell me to start pushing back. Yeah alright I'll just start tanking these minions that hit me for 300 dmg a second, I'm sure my opponent will be nice enough to sit back and leave me be. With Purple side top often taking Wraiths/Golems, this is really common. A lot of champions can zone you off creeps when they hit level 2, and then you just have to wait because there's no way to approach the wave. You do realize that it's incredibly obvious that one player is pushing right? They auto the minions, and spam their spells. The minions don't just suddenly die. Every champion can prevent pushing. You are just wrong.
You can slow pushing. Against some lanes(renek vs a lot of common tops), you can slow a push, but there's no way you can stop it.
EDIT: also there's a rapidstar AMA http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1eopwo/cj_entus_frost_rapidstar_ama/
"Who's your favorite champion?"
As much as I love Anivia, this character does not go along with the current trend so it is hard for me to use the champion
This makes me feel slightly better about having a 4.1 KDA on anivia and only 56% winrate vs a full 60 in S2.
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Hmmm; was having discussion with my friend yesterday, and got me thinking. What does Riot think when they nerf a champion to the point its no longer played? Do they sit back in their chairs and pat themselves on the back on a job well done? Do they just stop caring? Cuz for the most part I feel like after a major nerf and its stopped being played Riot doesn't really bother buffing it a bit.
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EPT
