• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 23:51
CEST 05:51
KST 12:51
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters5[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 244
Community News
Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon?85Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)9Weekly Cups (August 24-30): Patches' balance mod takes over3New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery!42Weekly Cups (August 17-23): Zerg dominate the week6
StarCraft 2
General
Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Nexon wins bid to develop StarCraft IP content, distribute Overwatch mobile game SC4ALL: II Winner Will Earn a Spot at HSC 30! Weekly Cups (August 24-30): Patches' balance mod takes over September World Ranking: herO leads, Serral climbs
Tourneys
2026 GSTL Announcement Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly SC2 INu's Battles#20 [BO.9]
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 542 The Ascended Mutation # 541 Binary Choice The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 540 Dodge This
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Gypsy to Korea [ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery! BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro16 Group A [ASL22] Ro24 Group F [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Brood War in Budapest ! WORTEX 2026 BW Finals
Strategy
Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Replay Review Process - What do you do? Game Theory for Starcraft Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Diablo IV EVE Corporation [Maplestory Hardcore] Let's Play~!! General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
F* the Children and Get Off …
TrAiDoS
Dreaming of BW patches (mod…
c3rberUs
Regacy Esports: The Bh…
regacyesports
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 4563 users

[Patch 3.07: Nerf Everything Not Nami] General Discussion…

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 205 206 207 208 209 351 Next
Looks like we're back to status quo. Hope more of you lurkers unburrow and talk with us. :3

If you have any issues or comments about the new design, feel free to PM Neo.
AsmodeusXI
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States15536 Posts
May 30 2013 15:51 GMT
#4121
On May 31 2013 00:49 xes wrote:
Sounds like they need to unclog the tubes to get better internets flowing


They don't need to empty the dump truck, I know that much.
WriterTL > RL. BNet: Asmodeus#1187 - LoL: DJForeclosure - Steam: asmodeusxi | www.n3rddimension.com
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-30 15:56:01
May 30 2013 15:55 GMT
#4122
On May 30 2013 19:08 Chrispy wrote:
I like Khaldor but I really didn't like that video. It seemed dishonest in a way, I can't really explain it. Sort of felt like that paper you are writing where you know your argument is a crock of shit but you've got to argue it anyway so you only include the few things that support your argument while ignoring the rest.

I watched it and sorta felt the same way. It seems like his argument was "There are way more SC matches to choose from, so OF COURSE they have less viewers than LoL. LoL is only popular because it's free to play and it's popularity as a game doesn't transfer over to it's popularity as an eSport at all!" He was well spoken but can't say I agree with the sentiment.
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
thenexusp
Profile Joined May 2009
United States3721 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-30 15:59:21
May 30 2013 15:59 GMT
#4123
Looks like we're back to status quo. Hope more of you lurkers unburrow and talk with us. :3

Nice try, Marines
Noro
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada991 Posts
May 30 2013 16:00 GMT
#4124
On May 31 2013 00:55 onlywonderboy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2013 19:08 Chrispy wrote:
I like Khaldor but I really didn't like that video. It seemed dishonest in a way, I can't really explain it. Sort of felt like that paper you are writing where you know your argument is a crock of shit but you've got to argue it anyway so you only include the few things that support your argument while ignoring the rest.

I watched it and sorta felt the same way. It seems like his argument was "There are way more SC matches to choose from, so OF COURSE they have less viewers than LoL. LoL is only popular because it's free to play and it's popularity as a game doesn't transfer over to it's popularity as an eSport at all!" He was well spoken but can't say I agree with the sentiment.


Yeah, honestly it's still kind of baffling how people can just attribute all of LoL's success to a F2P model. And to say that it doesn't transfer to it's popularity as an esport is absurd.

Keep in mind, every reporter will have their bias... It just seems that there is a lot of blaming League of Legends for simply being very successful while other games flounder.
Talk not to me of blasphemy, man; I'd strike the sun if it insulted me.
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
May 30 2013 16:01 GMT
#4125
Alright, you caught me.

Send in the Vessels~
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-30 16:03:09
May 30 2013 16:01 GMT
#4126
On May 31 2013 00:01 AsmodeusXI wrote:
But more hilarious than that to me is like: "Oh, you wanna catch up with DotA, do you Valve? NO WAI."

At least Valve can catch up putting new heroes in DotA 2 faster than I can catch up buying new heroes that Riot puts out.

On May 30 2013 23:59 JonGalt wrote:
So we were talking about patch cycles. Just read the new DotA patch.

Good gravy that is a bajillion changes. It's like a brand new game hahaha. Blows my mind. Granted that's probably about 3-4 LoL patches, just all in one. Overwhelming to say the least.

One of the biggest things that stands out to me is how much Icefrog has altered the core mechanics of the game over the past year and a half. Not just hero and item changes, but drastically revamping the drafting process, assist gold, buybacks, XP range, etc.
Moderator
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
May 30 2013 16:04 GMT
#4127
On May 31 2013 01:01 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 31 2013 00:01 AsmodeusXI wrote:
But more hilarious than that to me is like: "Oh, you wanna catch up with DotA, do you Valve? NO WAI."

At least Valve can catch up putting new heroes in DotA 2 faster than I can catch up buying new heroes that Riot puts out.

Face.

But that's just disparity in the business model. If LoL had an upfront cost to buy all of the champs in the game at a discount I would have been all over that. And based on the number of CostCo members in this forum they probably would have too lol.
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
May 30 2013 16:49 GMT
#4128
It's so easy to keep up when you've been playing for years and started with the physical disc + champion bundle. I literally have enough IP right now to buy the next two champions, and that's just from periodic ARAM binges.

I think a lot of veteran players who haven't taken breaks don't really appreciate how hard it is to flesh out a new account.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
Dgiese
Profile Joined July 2010
United States2687 Posts
May 30 2013 16:54 GMT
#4129
On May 31 2013 01:04 onlywonderboy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 31 2013 01:01 TheYango wrote:
On May 31 2013 00:01 AsmodeusXI wrote:
But more hilarious than that to me is like: "Oh, you wanna catch up with DotA, do you Valve? NO WAI."

At least Valve can catch up putting new heroes in DotA 2 faster than I can catch up buying new heroes that Riot puts out.

Face.

But that's just disparity in the business model. If LoL had an upfront cost to buy all of the champs in the game at a discount I would have been all over that. And based on the number of CostCo members in this forum they probably would have too lol.

Riot should release a champion that is based on Costco... that would be sweet... yeah.
daemir
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland8662 Posts
May 30 2013 16:54 GMT
#4130
There's all sorts of calculations of how much IP you need to buy all the things and it looks more like a career job than a game to get everything without RP.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
May 30 2013 17:00 GMT
#4131
On May 30 2013 18:19 iCanada wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2013 15:22 Navi wrote:
oh i didnt know the commentary in american sports wasn't good. i mostly just watch korean esports and european football and the quality seems much higher on the whole.


I dont really know what these guys are on aboiut, I'd say the average sports broadcast kicks the shit out of the average eSports broadcast in terms of value, commentary, entertainment, and production value.

I like eSports, but we have randoms who happened to be roommates with some pro player two years ago doing all the reporting work. Real sports has a guy who spent 4 years getting a degree on how to be an expert broadcaster.

You ask any sports fan if they have any one call that sticks with the, stays in their mind more than the actual event itself and everyone has at least one of them.

I honestly have been watching eSports for probably five years, and I can't think of a single time watching eSports that this has been the case outside of Korea... Hell, aside from maybe korean commentators going nuts after Doublelifts OGN pentakill, but the Koreans have much better production value in eSports than we do.

For example, I could recite the entire call from the tying goal in an Oilers game from 2007, I have the call itself more memorized than the play however remarkable it was.
+ Show Spoiler +



I've seen some equally remarkable, equally epic eSports moments, but none of them stick with me the same way. None. Thing is, my sports list could go on and on and on.

I said interviewers, not commentators. I dunno how everyone got sidetracked onto commentating sports vs interviewing sports athletes.
liftlift > tsm
Zess
Profile Joined July 2012
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
May 30 2013 17:05 GMT
#4132
On May 31 2013 01:54 Dgiese wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 31 2013 01:04 onlywonderboy wrote:
On May 31 2013 01:01 TheYango wrote:
On May 31 2013 00:01 AsmodeusXI wrote:
But more hilarious than that to me is like: "Oh, you wanna catch up with DotA, do you Valve? NO WAI."

At least Valve can catch up putting new heroes in DotA 2 faster than I can catch up buying new heroes that Riot puts out.

Face.

But that's just disparity in the business model. If LoL had an upfront cost to buy all of the champs in the game at a discount I would have been all over that. And based on the number of CostCo members in this forum they probably would have too lol.

Riot should release a champion that is based on Costco... that would be sweet... yeah.


Passive: Bulk discount!
-Teammates are able to buy any item at X% the gold cost as long but it comes bundled in packs of Y

Q: Free trial
- Minions follow you for X seconds

W: Pizza break
- Heals you and nearby allies of X health and Y mana

E: No membership card
- Causes minions to walk away from you for X seconds

R: Free samples
- Enemy champions path to random locations on the map for X seconds
Administrator@TL_Zess
| (• ◡•)|八 (❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
JonGalt
Profile Joined February 2013
Pootie too good!4331 Posts
May 30 2013 17:05 GMT
#4133
On May 31 2013 01:04 onlywonderboy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 31 2013 01:01 TheYango wrote:
On May 31 2013 00:01 AsmodeusXI wrote:
But more hilarious than that to me is like: "Oh, you wanna catch up with DotA, do you Valve? NO WAI."

At least Valve can catch up putting new heroes in DotA 2 faster than I can catch up buying new heroes that Riot puts out.

Face.

But that's just disparity in the business model. If LoL had an upfront cost to buy all of the champs in the game at a discount I would have been all over that. And based on the number of CostCo members in this forum they probably would have too lol.


I don't even know what a reasonable price would be. 200? 300?
LiquidLegends StaffWho is Jon Galt?
c.Deadly
Profile Joined March 2010
United States545 Posts
May 30 2013 17:08 GMT
#4134
On May 31 2013 01:49 Seuss wrote:
It's so easy to keep up when you've been playing for years and started with the physical disc + champion bundle. I literally have enough IP right now to buy the next two champions, and that's just from periodic ARAM binges.

I think a lot of veteran players who haven't taken breaks don't really appreciate how hard it is to flesh out a new account.


Yeah it really is a grind, and it's not made any easier by runes and rune pages. Veteran players understand that all you need is armor seals, mres glyphs, ad marks, etcetc and those runes are the cheapest, but this isn't really explained well to new players. My friends who are new to the game saw the more expensive runes and thought "huh hp/level seals must be better than armor because they cost twice as much, I'm going to get those instead" and now they're out 15k+ IP on an assortment of runes they'll never use with only 2 pages.
Noro
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada991 Posts
May 30 2013 17:08 GMT
#4135
On May 31 2013 02:05 xes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 31 2013 01:54 Dgiese wrote:
On May 31 2013 01:04 onlywonderboy wrote:
On May 31 2013 01:01 TheYango wrote:
On May 31 2013 00:01 AsmodeusXI wrote:
But more hilarious than that to me is like: "Oh, you wanna catch up with DotA, do you Valve? NO WAI."

At least Valve can catch up putting new heroes in DotA 2 faster than I can catch up buying new heroes that Riot puts out.

Face.

But that's just disparity in the business model. If LoL had an upfront cost to buy all of the champs in the game at a discount I would have been all over that. And based on the number of CostCo members in this forum they probably would have too lol.

Riot should release a champion that is based on Costco... that would be sweet... yeah.


Passive: Bulk discount!
-Teammates are able to buy any item at X% the gold cost as long but it comes bundled in packs of Y

Q: Free trial
- Minions follow you for X seconds

W: Pizza break
- Heals you and nearby allies of X health and Y mana

E: No membership card
- Causes minions to walk away from you for X seconds

R: Free samples
- Enemy champions path to random locations on the map for X seconds


I'd support CostcoChamp so hard, and eat pizza while doing so.
Talk not to me of blasphemy, man; I'd strike the sun if it insulted me.
Capped
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom7236 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-30 17:13:00
May 30 2013 17:11 GMT
#4136
On May 31 2013 02:05 JonGalt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 31 2013 01:04 onlywonderboy wrote:
On May 31 2013 01:01 TheYango wrote:
On May 31 2013 00:01 AsmodeusXI wrote:
But more hilarious than that to me is like: "Oh, you wanna catch up with DotA, do you Valve? NO WAI."

At least Valve can catch up putting new heroes in DotA 2 faster than I can catch up buying new heroes that Riot puts out.

Face.

But that's just disparity in the business model. If LoL had an upfront cost to buy all of the champs in the game at a discount I would have been all over that. And based on the number of CostCo members in this forum they probably would have too lol.


I don't even know what a reasonable price would be. 200? 300?


100+ champs in the game, about half of those 6300 / 975 / $10 the other half can probably be estimated at half that so roughly $750

$750 fucking dollars to buy all the champs in the game.

I dont think even costco would go much below $500 there.

EDIT: Wait, there was a physical copy of league?
Useless wet fish.
AsmodeusXI
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States15536 Posts
May 30 2013 17:17 GMT
#4137
On May 31 2013 02:11 Capped wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 31 2013 02:05 JonGalt wrote:
On May 31 2013 01:04 onlywonderboy wrote:
On May 31 2013 01:01 TheYango wrote:
On May 31 2013 00:01 AsmodeusXI wrote:
But more hilarious than that to me is like: "Oh, you wanna catch up with DotA, do you Valve? NO WAI."

At least Valve can catch up putting new heroes in DotA 2 faster than I can catch up buying new heroes that Riot puts out.

Face.

But that's just disparity in the business model. If LoL had an upfront cost to buy all of the champs in the game at a discount I would have been all over that. And based on the number of CostCo members in this forum they probably would have too lol.


I don't even know what a reasonable price would be. 200? 300?


100+ champs in the game, about half of those 6300 / 975 / $10 the other half can probably be estimated at half that so roughly $750

$750 fucking dollars to buy all the champs in the game.

I dont think even costco would go much below $500 there.

EDIT: Wait, there was a physical copy of league?


In a bygone age. It came with a now-unavailable exclusive skin. ... Human Ryze? Black Alistar? Don't remember.
WriterTL > RL. BNet: Asmodeus#1187 - LoL: DJForeclosure - Steam: asmodeusxi | www.n3rddimension.com
Zess
Profile Joined July 2012
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
May 30 2013 17:18 GMT
#4138
On May 31 2013 02:11 Capped wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 31 2013 02:05 JonGalt wrote:
On May 31 2013 01:04 onlywonderboy wrote:
On May 31 2013 01:01 TheYango wrote:
On May 31 2013 00:01 AsmodeusXI wrote:
But more hilarious than that to me is like: "Oh, you wanna catch up with DotA, do you Valve? NO WAI."

At least Valve can catch up putting new heroes in DotA 2 faster than I can catch up buying new heroes that Riot puts out.

Face.

But that's just disparity in the business model. If LoL had an upfront cost to buy all of the champs in the game at a discount I would have been all over that. And based on the number of CostCo members in this forum they probably would have too lol.


I don't even know what a reasonable price would be. 200? 300?


100+ champs in the game, about half of those 6300 / 975 / $10 the other half can probably be estimated at half that so roughly $750

$750 fucking dollars to buy all the champs in the game.

I dont think even costco would go much below $500 there.

EDIT: Wait, there was a physical copy of league?

There was a collector's edition which came in a box. http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Collector's_Edition
Administrator@TL_Zess
| (• ◡•)|八 (❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
AsmodeusXI
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States15536 Posts
May 30 2013 17:24 GMT
#4139
On May 31 2013 02:18 xes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 31 2013 02:11 Capped wrote:
On May 31 2013 02:05 JonGalt wrote:
On May 31 2013 01:04 onlywonderboy wrote:
On May 31 2013 01:01 TheYango wrote:
On May 31 2013 00:01 AsmodeusXI wrote:
But more hilarious than that to me is like: "Oh, you wanna catch up with DotA, do you Valve? NO WAI."

At least Valve can catch up putting new heroes in DotA 2 faster than I can catch up buying new heroes that Riot puts out.

Face.

But that's just disparity in the business model. If LoL had an upfront cost to buy all of the champs in the game at a discount I would have been all over that. And based on the number of CostCo members in this forum they probably would have too lol.


I don't even know what a reasonable price would be. 200? 300?


100+ champs in the game, about half of those 6300 / 975 / $10 the other half can probably be estimated at half that so roughly $750

$750 fucking dollars to buy all the champs in the game.

I dont think even costco would go much below $500 there.

EDIT: Wait, there was a physical copy of league?

There was a collector's edition which came in a box. http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Collector's_Edition


OH MAN FREE CRIT MARKS HOW'D I MISS THAT
WriterTL > RL. BNet: Asmodeus#1187 - LoL: DJForeclosure - Steam: asmodeusxi | www.n3rddimension.com
Capped
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom7236 Posts
May 30 2013 17:28 GMT
#4140
Right i want to use the chinese artwork for LoL. Its fucking kick ass
Useless wet fish.
Prev 1 205 206 207 208 209 351 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
00:00
OSC Elite Rising Star #20
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft654
RuFF_SC2 203
NeuroSwarm 189
ProTech118
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 2649
GuemChi 1788
NaDa 53
Noble 26
Dota 2
febbydoto23
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
taco 453
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox803
Other Games
summit1g15900
JimRising 843
C9.Mang0313
XaKoH 210
Maynarde110
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1811
BasetradeTV68
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta24
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki6
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22365
Upcoming Events
Afreeca Starleague
6h 9m
Soma vs Shuttle
BeSt vs Rush
WardiTV Weekly
7h 9m
Monday Night Weeklies
12h 9m
Afreeca Starleague
1d 6h
Leta vs ggaemo
Jaedong vs Queen
GSL
1d 7h
PiGosaur Cup
1d 20h
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
KCM Race Survival
3 days
[ Show More ]
Escore
4 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-09-02
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - TRS
RSL Revival: Season 6
Calamity Invitational
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: King of Kings
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
SC4ALL II: Brood War
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.