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On May 12 2013 20:18 mr_tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2013 19:24 Solaris.playgu wrote:
I've been going pretty much the same build, but switching Tabi for Mobility boots and Visage for FH. While the first is a matter of preference I'd definately advice on the latter. The Visage passive is kinda wasted on her, and FH is only 800 more gold.
But yeah, she broken as fuck right now. But where do you get your MR from ? 
depending on the ratio of magic damage to physical damage even if the balance is skewed 1/3 to 2/3 it might actually be more efficient to buy only armour and hp (cant remember the answer right now though)
i think its an EHP ratio thing.
If you have 1/3 2/3 balance you want 2/3 of your ehp to be against physical for optimal EHP.
so with 2k hp and 50 mr you have 3k ehp vs magic
so you want 6k ehp against physical which is 200 armour before you start wanting magic resist a bit more.
and even the frozen heart attack speed slow might make it still worth it to get to 250 armour or so
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Yes, but with that build, you only have Golem + Locket worth of HP, meaning your only defence against magic casters doing practically true damage onto you are 700 hp. In my experience that is an incredibly dangerous situation to be in, because it means that you as a tank are very much still threatened by their AP caster, while one of your main jobs should be to soak up his spells for your squishy and laugh at them. Of course, if they don't have any real AP champion, the situation is different.
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France45622 Posts
tis 'k, you've got 150+ additional HP from the locket shield. Also oyu can just ask your support or off laner to rush aegis after their core since you're building locket early, so it still gives you MR.
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Are you guys playing her top or jungle? What skill order do you use?
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On May 12 2013 20:46 Leonite7 wrote:
Are you guys playing her top or jungle? What skill order do you use?
Jungle, W - E - Q.
Dunno. I dislike FH atm. I prefer Randuin in that case, and to get the CDR for Visage, which is a crazy cost effective item.
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On May 12 2013 20:34 Simberto wrote:
Yes, but with that build, you only have Golem + Locket worth of HP, meaning your only defence against magic casters doing practically true damage onto you are 700 hp. In my experience that is an incredibly dangerous situation to be in, because it means that you as a tank are very much still threatened by their AP caster, while one of your main jobs should be to soak up his spells for your squishy and laugh at them. Of course, if they don't have any real AP champion, the situation is different.
"only" golem + locket is about 1k hp with the active included, basically a warmogs. (500 + 300 +150-200 active)
that's easily over 3k hp once you get some decent levels which is 4.5k ehp with 50 mr (which is disregarding runes, but they might have spell pen so w/e)
what ap caster can do 4.5k damage?
Also, he has to use everyone on YOU, after you've already used all your shit including ult and he will only get you to like 1/2 or a 1/3 if you're really underleveled and you can always flash out or something.
the difference is the ad ALWAYS have to hit you while the AP can only do it if they get away with a kill or something.
spirit cost effectiveness is shitty anyway, if you want mr get aegis, the cdr isnt worth buying an shitty item.
On May 12 2013 21:07 mr_tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2013 20:46 Leonite7 wrote:
Are you guys playing her top or jungle? What skill order do you use?
Jungle, W - E - Q. Dunno. I dislike FH atm. I prefer Randuin in that case, and to get the CDR for Visage, which is a crazy cost effective item.
how the fuck is visage crazy cost effective. its a kindlegem and a negatron + 630 gold for about 420 gold worth of stats (5 mr and 10% cdr)
frozen heart is not that cost effective either, but you buy it on the basis of armour being a more useful stat and the passive being an extra 20% ehp vs auto attacks (on top of tabi 10%)
and since neither of these are that amazing and sejuani scales off hp really well you might just want to get raduins or aegis or warmogs and get cdr from runes/masteries to close up most of that 20%. (or cdr boots maybe)
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On May 12 2013 20:18 mr_tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2013 19:24 Solaris.playgu wrote:
I've been going pretty much the same build, but switching Tabi for Mobility boots and Visage for FH. While the first is a matter of preference I'd definately advice on the latter. The Visage passive is kinda wasted on her, and FH is only 800 more gold.
But yeah, she broken as fuck right now. But where do you get your MR from ?
If I need extra I buy a Negatron. Normally the aura from Bulwark is enough though, at least in my experience =)
On May 12 2013 21:14 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2013 20:34 Simberto wrote:
Yes, but with that build, you only have Golem + Locket worth of HP, meaning your only defence against magic casters doing practically true damage onto you are 700 hp. In my experience that is an incredibly dangerous situation to be in, because it means that you as a tank are very much still threatened by their AP caster, while one of your main jobs should be to soak up his spells for your squishy and laugh at them. Of course, if they don't have any real AP champion, the situation is different. "only" golem + locket is about 1k hp with the active included, basically a warmogs. (500 + 300 +150-200 active) that's easily over 3k hp once you get some decent levels which is 4.5k ehp with 50 mr (which is disregarding runes, but they might have spell pen so w/e) what ap caster can do 4.5k damage? Also, he has to use everyone on YOU, after you've already used all your shit including ult and he will only get you to like 1/2 or a 1/3 if you're really underleveled and you can always flash out or something. the difference is the ad ALWAYS have to hit you while the AP can only do it if they get away with a kill or something. spirit cost effectiveness is shitty anyway, if you want mr get aegis, the cdr isnt worth buying an shitty item. Show nested quote +On May 12 2013 21:07 mr_tolkien wrote:On May 12 2013 20:46 Leonite7 wrote:
Are you guys playing her top or jungle? What skill order do you use?
Jungle, W - E - Q. Dunno. I dislike FH atm. I prefer Randuin in that case, and to get the CDR for Visage, which is a crazy cost effective item. how the fuck is visage crazy cost effective. its a kindlegem and a negatron + 630 gold for about 420 gold worth of stats (5 mr and 10% cdr) frozen heart is not that cost effective either, but you buy it on the basis of armour being a more useful stat and the passive being an extra 20% ehp vs auto attacks (on top of tabi 10%) and since neither of these are that amazing and sejuani scales off hp really well you might just want to get raduins or aegis or warmogs and get cdr from runes/masteries to close up most of that 20%. (or cdr boots maybe)
'tis true, might be better to just skip it and go for a Randuin's. Gonna try it out and see how it feels =)
[/QUOTE]
Jungle, W - E - Q.
Dunno. I dislike FH atm. I prefer Randuin in that case, and to get the CDR for Visage, which is a crazy cost effective item.[/QUOTE]
Why e over q? I find the percentage hp scaling on q too strong to skip, especially since she doesn't really need more cc.
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Why do korean female voice actors have to be so "vocal"?Srsly this is so terrible to listen to :<.Just watched some faker plays on lissandra and having to mute the video is rather annoyng lol.
+ Show Spoiler +
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why do voice actors have to be vocal? one for the philosophers
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On May 12 2013 21:31 Slayer91 wrote:
why do voice actors have to be vocal? one for the philosophers
Well I don't know how to say it so it doesn't stupid in English but seriously don't some champs like korean lissandra just sound really terrible lol?
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sounds fine to me. You're probably not used to the korean tone or something
she's supposed to sound kinda like an ice witch and it sounds really like that to me in this video
sounds a bit like riven actually
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Meh dunno I listen to a lot of kpop but guess that's just different haha.Never heard a champ that just straight up makes me mute a video.Considering how strong she is we will probably see a lot of her as well.
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On May 12 2013 21:14 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2013 20:34 Simberto wrote:
Yes, but with that build, you only have Golem + Locket worth of HP, meaning your only defence against magic casters doing practically true damage onto you are 700 hp. In my experience that is an incredibly dangerous situation to be in, because it means that you as a tank are very much still threatened by their AP caster, while one of your main jobs should be to soak up his spells for your squishy and laugh at them. Of course, if they don't have any real AP champion, the situation is different. "only" golem + locket is about 1k hp with the active included, basically a warmogs. (500 + 300 +150-200 active) that's easily over 3k hp once you get some decent levels which is 4.5k ehp with 50 mr (which is disregarding runes, but they might have spell pen so w/e) what ap caster can do 4.5k damage? Also, he has to use everyone on YOU, after you've already used all your shit including ult and he will only get you to like 1/2 or a 1/3 if you're really underleveled and you can always flash out or something. the difference is the ad ALWAYS have to hit you while the AP can only do it if they get away with a kill or something. spirit cost effectiveness is shitty anyway, if you want mr get aegis, the cdr isnt worth buying an shitty item. Show nested quote +On May 12 2013 21:07 mr_tolkien wrote:On May 12 2013 20:46 Leonite7 wrote:
Are you guys playing her top or jungle? What skill order do you use?
Jungle, W - E - Q. Dunno. I dislike FH atm. I prefer Randuin in that case, and to get the CDR for Visage, which is a crazy cost effective item. how the fuck is visage crazy cost effective. its a kindlegem and a negatron + 630 gold for about 420 gold worth of stats (5 mr and 10% cdr) frozen heart is not that cost effective either, but you buy it on the basis of armour being a more useful stat and the passive being an extra 20% ehp vs auto attacks (on top of tabi 10%) and since neither of these are that amazing and sejuani scales off hp really well you might just want to get raduins or aegis or warmogs and get cdr from runes/masteries to close up most of that 20%. (or cdr boots maybe)
So this is 50mr after magic pen for 4.5k ehp. Is this a realistic assumption? Going with just ap mid... I suppose not too many actually do haunting guise liazndrys, and runes should cancel out / be in your favor.
IT seems weird, 50mr seems so low, but on the surface it seems relatively effective. My question for you teut is, how does your value of mr go up according to the rest of the team comp. I.e. the above is only for single target ap mid. But what if we start to see an ap top (e.g. Rumble or kennen), or a lesser situation like a magic damage heavy ap + support (e.g. Sona varus). Obv 2/3 1/3 changes at some point, just wondering at what point roughly, and what to (1/2 1/2?).
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if its 50:50 you get 50% mr 50% armour but maybe get 100/100 until you get 3k hp and then like 150/150+4k hp.
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Indeed, but I'm meaning when in your mind doesn't it become time to go 50/50. Like, what kinda of stuff do you have to see on enemy team to go for that (I.e. would seeing an amumu + normal mid be enough). I'm sure you decide only based on the flow of the game, but I'm not too good at that, so I'm looking for simplified rules of thumb / useful heuristics (e.g. Double solo ap - 2/3mr, magic dmg jungle + ap mid - 1/2 mr, ap mid + magic dmg bot lane - ???, etc).
Ty for the response
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So i played support in a game yesterday.
Leona (me) / vayne vs cait / lulu.
Level 1 vayne took a shitload of poke and started spampinging forward. Then typing "omg go pressure".
Now im leona, level 1 with a stun, no speed or gapcloser. Should i really be walking so far forward at a caitlyn / lulu lane into a slow and longest attack range in the game, without so much as my shield or a leash to grab them?
I really didnt understand this vayne's flaming of me. As soon as i walk forward im going to get auto'd by caitlyn and slowed by lulu, im not putting any pressure on them at all. At level 2 onwards its fine (shield, leash.), but level 1 i am ultimately useless in that lane. In fact this is exactly what happened, i walked to our minions and got slowed immediately from brush and caitlyn jumped me with auto's and her long range thingie forcing my flash / pots.
Was she right to scream at me to pressure them level 1?
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On May 12 2013 22:00 Dgiese wrote:
Indeed, but I'm meaning when in your mind doesn't it become time to go 50/50. Like, what kinda of stuff do you have to see on enemy team to go for that (I.e. would seeing an amumu + normal mid be enough). I'm sure you decide only based on the flow of the game, but I'm not too good at that, so I'm looking for simplified rules of thumb / useful heuristics (e.g. Double solo ap - 2/3mr, magic dmg jungle + ap mid - 1/2 mr, ap mid + magic dmg bot lane - ???, etc).
Ty for the response
you can't get too accurate because it depends who's hitting you in fights who in their team dies first etc
usually you want at least some armour though because the ad carry will always hit you. once you have like 100-150 armour then you can worry more about the ratios unless they are literally ap mid top and jungle or something.
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On May 12 2013 22:20 Capped wrote:
So i played support in a game yesterday.
Leona (me) / vayne vs cait / lulu.
Level 1 vayne took a shitload of poke and started spampinging forward. Then typing "omg go pressure".
Now im leona, level 1 with a stun, no speed or gapcloser. Should i really be walking so far forward at a caitlyn / lulu lane into a slow and longest attack range in the game, without so much as my shield or a leash to grab them?
I really didnt understand this vayne's flaming of me. As soon as i walk forward im going to get auto'd by caitlyn and slowed by lulu, im not putting any pressure on them at all. At level 2 onwards its fine (shield, leash.), but level 1 i am ultimately useless in that lane. In fact this is exactly what happened, i walked to our minions and got slowed immediately from brush and caitlyn jumped me with auto's and her long range thingie forcing my flash / pots.
Was she right to scream at me to pressure them level 1?
Unless they are really bad you can't do anything but wait for them to push and try to get what creeps you can.In a lane like this if you are just 50 cs behind when it ends with a lost tower I'd say you did decently lol.Only way to go even or win is for your jungler to give you a few good ganks.
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On May 12 2013 22:20 Capped wrote:
So i played support in a game yesterday.
Leona (me) / vayne vs cait / lulu.
Level 1 vayne took a shitload of poke and started spampinging forward. Then typing "omg go pressure".
Now im leona, level 1 with a stun, no speed or gapcloser. Should i really be walking so far forward at a caitlyn / lulu lane into a slow and longest attack range in the game, without so much as my shield or a leash to grab them?
I really didnt understand this vayne's flaming of me. As soon as i walk forward im going to get auto'd by caitlyn and slowed by lulu, im not putting any pressure on them at all. At level 2 onwards its fine (shield, leash.), but level 1 i am ultimately useless in that lane. In fact this is exactly what happened, i walked to our minions and got slowed immediately from brush and caitlyn jumped me with auto's and her long range thingie forcing my flash / pots.
Was she right to scream at me to pressure them level 1?
Don't listen to him. You have no gap closer and no shield at level 1, and walking up to Lulu Cait is pretty much asking to be killed. Stay safe until lvl 2 or 3 and then you can go and "put pressure".
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On May 12 2013 22:20 Capped wrote:
So i played support in a game yesterday.
Leona (me) / vayne vs cait / lulu.
Level 1 vayne took a shitload of poke and started spampinging forward. Then typing "omg go pressure".
Now im leona, level 1 with a stun, no speed or gapcloser. Should i really be walking so far forward at a caitlyn / lulu lane into a slow and longest attack range in the game, without so much as my shield or a leash to grab them?
I really didnt understand this vayne's flaming of me. As soon as i walk forward im going to get auto'd by caitlyn and slowed by lulu, im not putting any pressure on them at all. At level 2 onwards its fine (shield, leash.), but level 1 i am ultimately useless in that lane. In fact this is exactly what happened, i walked to our minions and got slowed immediately from brush and caitlyn jumped me with auto's and her long range thingie forcing my flash / pots.
Was she right to scream at me to pressure them level 1?
you shouldn't pick leona with vayne or she shouldn't pick vayne with leona especially with what they have. lane like that you just have to wait for strong levels and then fight but you guys are pretty screwed just from the picks.
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EPT
