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On April 18 2013 18:48 Nobu wrote:
Don't really know why you guys talk about the All-Star as "the only international competition". This is just a showmatch that shouldn't have any impact, so you can argue that it wasn't a good move to give an extra spot in the finals for the winner, but the differences in the selection process are a must, since SEA dont have that many teams at the level of TPA imo (Don't follow the scene that much and I could be wrong) and probably mvp points are a good way to get a mixed team for China that catters the audience preferences at the same time.
You have to remember this is just a showmatch, and the real competition will be in the S3 finals. I agree that giving an extra spot for the winner is not that fair, but I dont think there is a need to complain about who will get a better team based on the selection process.
It's just my personal opinion, so take it with a grain of salt. My opinion is that Taiwanese players are being unfairly handicapped just to appease the other nations that make up the Garena Proleague. Lesser known Taiwanese teams such as Taipei Snipers are good, but players from that team such as Godjj cannot represent his region because of this specific rule. How can Taiwanese teams argue for the extra spot if Riot takes away their only opportunity to earn it, just to appease the other nations that make up South East Asia? It sure is a great PR move for the South East Asian scene in general, but it is total injustice to the professional players that has to try to qualify from that region.
Riot is soley at fault for everything. They are the ones that took monopoly over international competition. They are the ones that raised the stakes for this All Stars event without considering the consequences for the professional players, or considering it but sacrificing it for their own benefit. Either run a fun All Stars event, or run a fairly run tournament, not mix a bit of both to raise the hype at the cost of the players. They deserve every single criticism they are getting, and quite frankly, since they have monopoly over everything, only we have the ability to call them out on their bullshit. This is setting a precedent for how they will run tournaments in the future, and if we let every single slip ups Riot has made slide by, we may be seeing more of the same in the future. Preferential treatment for some regions, forcing unfair regulations on the players for political reasons, no universal standards for a competition then masking it with PR stunts. Why stop there? I could name worse that will be commercially viable moves.
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Anyone else getting random huge lagspikes on EUNE? Usually have 20 ping and sometimes it just suddenly spikes to 300 for a few seconds, had it happen through-out an entire 30 minute game.
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Riot doesn't have a monopoly on an international scale. I am pretty sure apart from NA and EU, other regions are managed by different company.
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On April 18 2013 19:14 Letmelose wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 18 2013 18:48 Nobu wrote:
Don't really know why you guys talk about the All-Star as "the only international competition". This is just a showmatch that shouldn't have any impact, so you can argue that it wasn't a good move to give an extra spot in the finals for the winner, but the differences in the selection process are a must, since SEA dont have that many teams at the level of TPA imo (Don't follow the scene that much and I could be wrong) and probably mvp points are a good way to get a mixed team for China that catters the audience preferences at the same time.
You have to remember this is just a showmatch, and the real competition will be in the S3 finals. I agree that giving an extra spot for the winner is not that fair, but I dont think there is a need to complain about who will get a better team based on the selection process. It's just my personal opinion, so take it with a grain of salt. My opinion is that Taiwanese players are being unfairly handicapped just to appease the other nations that make up the Garena Proleague. Lesser known Taiwanese teams such as Taipei Snipers are good, but players from that team such as Godjj cannot represent his region because of this specific rule. How can Taiwanese teams argue for the extra spot if Riot takes away their only opportunity to earn it, just to appease the other nations that make up South East Asia? It sure is a great PR move for the South East Asian scene in general, but it is total injustice to the professional players that has to try to qualify from that region. Riot is soley at fault for everything. They are the ones that took monopoly over international competition. They are the ones that raised the stakes for this All Stars event without considering the consequences for the professional players, or considering it but sacrificing it for their own benefit. Either run a fun All Stars event, or run a fairly run tournament, not mix a bit of both to raise the hype at the cost of the players. They deserve every single criticism they are getting, and quite frankly, since they have monopoly over everything, only we have the ability to call them out on their bullshit. This is setting a precedent for how they will run tournaments in the future, and if we let every single slip ups Riot has made slide by, we may be seeing more of the same in the future. Preferential treatment for some regions, forcing unfair regulations on the players for political reasons, no universal standards for a competition then masking it with PR stunts. Why stop there? I could name worse that will be commercially viable moves.
I agree that SEA team is handicapped and they are not getting the best players for an all-star event, but you can tell EU and NA doesn't have the best possible team either due to the fanbased election. I agree with you that it's not a good move to take the monopoly in cross-region tournaments, and then give an extra spot in the big event of the season from an event that should be purely for fun.
In the end, even when a region gets the best possible team they can (thinking of china MPV points system), the fact that the game is a 5vs5 game and comunication and teamplay is what really makes the differences between teams, handing an extra spot to a region based on the results of an all-stars, which doesnt represent the strength of the teams of each region (though china/korea will probably win so it won't matter) is quite retarded.
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Yellowpete is EU AD representative
team NA looks very strong.
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On April 18 2013 20:01 Mensol wrote:Yellowpete is EU AD representative team NA looks very strong.
they have scarra on mid, imo it will be their downfall, should have taken reginald or even nyjacky
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Pootie too good!4331 Posts
Honestly, people seem to be overreacting about the Allstar match.
Riot wants it to be an awesome event (which I think it will be) but they also want the players to try. If they didn't have the extra slot up for grabs it would just turn into a random yoloq game with high level players. Players wouldn't practice or even try really. MLB had the same problem.
I think a wildcard tournament at the end of the summer season would have been the best idea to add the extra slot.
And on top of that, I think that the region that wins the allstar match should be the region that holds the World Finals.
I also think that the voting should be split. 50% weighted towards fans, 50% weighted towards pro players. Should be like this for all regions. Even if Xpecial gets 50% of votes from fans, but patoy gets 80% from pro players, patoy will likely win (and vice versa).
Just my 2 cents.
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I voted for Candypanda every day but it wasn't enough
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On April 18 2013 20:50 EquilasH wrote:I voted for Candypanda every day but it wasn't enough
I started voting for Candypanda but then realised that there was no chance of him getting in, so switched to Genja just to make sure Yellowpete didn't get it, then found out about the rule where only 3 from one team could go and facepalmed... at least Soaz just beat Wickd. It shows how crazy the All-star voting is when most of the spots where held by EG members at the start of voting despite them showing pretty terrible games compared to their counterparts in Fnatic/Gambit/SK.
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On April 18 2013 17:41 Letmelose wrote:
It would be less of a problem if Riot didn't basically boycott all large scale international tournaments that didn't have a direct control over. The results of this tournament will affect the outcome of the only proper international competition since Riot took over, and they are zeroing in on what will reward them financially at cost of ensuring that the only international tournament is run legitimately.
I'm not going to discuss which region got screwed over the most, but surely you can agree that Riot did not do everything in their power to keep this a legitimate competition, yet ultimately raised the stakes with little consideration for the consequences, just to get the numbers. Is this why they took monopoly of large scale international competition? Just to get all the money? It seems so for me.
Absolutely. But this is how most real life sports work as well - decisions pertaining to the rules are often made for reasons other than the games competitiveness. Especially in American sports - league officials are constantly adjusting the pitching mound height in baseball to make it easier for batters, or reducing the size of a goalies pads in hockey so its easier to score.
I feel like Riot is trying to lead LoL out of the 'esports' world and into a model like American sports - one where the business is successful and the league grows, but sometimes at the expense of 'fairness' or competitiveness.
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I guess there's no point being outraged and spreading negative vibes if the majority feels indifferent about the direction Riot is taking us. I'll try being more productive to the discussion by breaking down each region to the best of my knowledge. Please feel free to add your insight, or point out any mistakes I made.
North America.
1) Method of selection: Fan based voting that finished before any official statements from Riot. LCS coverage and professional players are informed of this issue, and actively spread the unannounced information.
2) Schedules: LCS Spring season will be finished roughly a month before the All Stars tournament. This allows the possibility of the chosen players developing synergy with one another without leaking out any strategies, but the lack of competitive schedule may lessen the intensity of practice.
3) Bracket: Facing China, in my opinion the favourites to win. However, they have two lives to waste since there is a loser's bracket.
4) Other issues: None. The selected players seem to be willing to train in preparation for the upcoming challenge.
5) Player selection: Voyboy, Saintvicious, scarra, Doublelift, Xpecial. Based on the votes of the professionals, it seems that either the best, or the second best players were picked for each position. Scarra, and Xpecial are the players with the least amount of votes from the players. I watched very little of any of these players, so I can't comment much overall.
http://www.rtsguru.com/game/435/article/5540/Travis-Gafford-The-LCS-Pros-All-Star-Picks.html
Europe
1) Method of selection: Fan based voting that finished before any official statements from Riot. LCS coverage and professional players are informed of this issue, and actively spread the unannounced information.
2) Schedules: LCS Spring season will be finished roughly a month before the All Stars tournament. This allows the possibility of the chosen players developing synergy with one another without leaking out any strategies, but the lack of competitive schedule may lessen the intensity of practice.
3) Bracket: Facing Korea. Even if they lose, there is a loser's bracket.
4) Other issues: Communication may be of a major issue, since many of the selected players do not use English as their first language, and in the case of Gambit Gaming members, are used to speaking Russian during competitive games. Diamondprox seems to be unhappy with having to attend the All Stars tournament due to his health and personal reasons. The issue of boot-camping, if it were to be done amongst the selected players in preparation for the tournament, will be difficult to organize.
5) Player selection: sOAZ, Diamondprox, Alex Ich, Yellowpete, Edward. Based on the votes of the professionals, the European scene may not have their best possible line-up. Neither Alex Ich, nor Yellowpete are considered the best in their region by fellow professionals who voiced an opinion. I was personally most impressed by Bjergsen, and voted for him, but I think Alex Ich is an excellent player also. I am unsure of what merits Yellowpete brings to the table apart from being consistent, but I'm guessing the votes for the players with the most skills as an AD carry were split amongst sveral players. Meanwhile the AD carries from popular teams such as Gambit Gaming and Evil Geniuses ensured a certain number of votes. I really don't rate Genja at all. I voted for him because of the lane-synergy with Edward, but as an individual player I think there must be better players in the European scene. I haven't seen enough to pick out specific examples though.
http://www.rtsguru.com/game/435/article/5540/Travis-Gafford-The-LCS-Pros-All-Star-Picks.html
South East Asia
1) Method of selection: Fan based voting that was 60% done before any official statements from Riot. Riot places a special regulation that counteracts the domination of Taiwanese players in the voting, and prevents the All Stars team from being all Taiwan-based. I would be absolutely furious if I were a Taiwanese professional player.
2) Schedules: Not totally sure, but it seems the GPL Spring season will end in April. Their off season preparation time may be similar to LCS regions, but I cannot say for sure.
3) Bracket: Seeded into next round against the winner of China/North America due to Taipei Assassins placing first place in last season’s World Championship. While they are guaranteed a top four finish, they have no loser’s bracket to fall back on.
4) Other issues: Communication will be of a major issue, since many of the selected players do not use English as their first language. South East Asia may have the most difficulty with communication, but I am uncertain to the extent to which this problem will influence the results. The issue of boot-camping, if it were to be done amongst the selected players in preparation for the tournament, will be difficult to organize.
5) Player selection: The line-up is undecided as of now. As far as I know, the members most likely to represent the region are: Stanley, HarLeLuYa, Toyz, Chawy, Mistake. I have no source of reference, nor do I watch the GPL, so I am going to refrain from talking out of my ass.
Korea
1) Method of selection: Fan based voting that was 60% done before any official statements from Riot. Riot Korea does not release any information on the nature of the votes despite inquiries, and is currently being heavily criticized for their decision to do so since much of the deciding votes has been set in motion.
2) Schedules: OGN The Champions Spring Season will leave a weak empty between the round of eight and the round of four in order not to overlap with the All Stars tournament. This means that the selected players, especially if they are in remaining eight teams, will not have much time to practice with one another.
3) Bracket: Facing Europe. Even if they lose, there is a loser's bracket.
4) Other issues: None.
5) Player selection: The line-up is undecided as of now. The members most likely to represent the region are: Maknoon, inSec, Ambition, PraY, Madlife. As far as I know, the only professional/ex-professional player to comment on the player selection was Woong (former member of CJ Entus Frost), and his choices were Expession, Kakao, Ambition, Imp, and Madlife. He mentioned that Expession was the most reliable, and Kakao had the best map awareness as well as the ability to mesh well with others, and acknowledged Imp to be the best AD carry in Korea at the moment. I personally believe that Imp and Mata would form the strongest bottom lane available from Korea (due to their synergy), and would like Faker to go represent Korea, but I understand that Ambition would be the safer pick due to his experience. Kakao would complement the team better from a pure strategic standpoint, but I rate inSec higher as a player, so I voted for him. I wouldn't mind anyone out of Shy, Ssumday, Expession, and Flame representing Korea's top lane.
China
1) Method of selection: From what I’ve heard, the players are selected based on their LPL MVP points. Perhaps this is due to the fact that Team WE members have too much support from the general public, and therefore would make any fan based voting meaningless.
2) Schedules: As far as I know, there will be not much time between the end of LPL Spring season and the All Stars tournament. There is the benefit of not having to worry about placing well in the remaining season like in Korea, but there is almost no time for the selected members to train specifically for the All Stars tounrnament.
3) Bracket: Facing North America. Even if they lose, there is a loser's bracket.
4) Other issues: None.
5) Player selection: Line is undecided as of now. As far as I know, the members most likely to represent the region are: PDD, Jing, Zz1tai, Uzi, LoveLin. I have no source of reference, so I can't really rate the players since I know so little. I will add that I’m personally a huge admirer of Uzi's talents, although I haven’t seen much of him, and would like to see him represent his region very much. We will be able to assess how good Doublelift truly is facing off against such a monstrous player.
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United States23745 Posts
On April 18 2013 20:31 JonGalt wrote:
Honestly, people seem to be overreacting about the Allstar match.
Riot wants it to be an awesome event (which I think it will be) but they also want the players to try. If they didn't have the extra slot up for grabs it would just turn into a random yoloq game with high level players. Players wouldn't practice or even try really. MLB had the same problem.
I think a wildcard tournament at the end of the summer season would have been the best idea to add the extra slot.
And on top of that, I think that the region that wins the allstar match should be the region that holds the World Finals.
I also think that the voting should be split. 50% weighted towards fans, 50% weighted towards pro players. Should be like this for all regions. Even if Xpecial gets 50% of votes from fans, but patoy gets 80% from pro players, patoy will likely win (and vice versa).
Just my 2 cents.
I find this whole thing so fascinating because my roommates and I had a huge debate over incentivizing All-star games in traditional sports back when the NFL All-star game was going on. It's a Catch-22. If you give the players something to play for (In the MLB home field advantage for the World Series) you get a better game overall but a lot of fans would just prefer a fun game without any real impact. If there is no incentive the players don't have to take it seriously and you get a fun game but then people question why even have it at all (see NFL All-star game). I guess with LoL if could be different if players did troll picks (Maknoon on Teemo pls), but otherwise it would probably end up being a mediocre game.
Personally I like the idea of something being on the line, but the whole disparity between voting processes rubs me the wrong way. If they really wanted to limit it they should have just made it 2 players per team instead of 3.
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Riot should just edit a few files and we could have a nice game including every pro player, just have em all play. Junglers may have an odd time, but think how awesome the 15 man ganks will be.
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what's with the NA servers ._.
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On April 18 2013 21:58 Letmelose wrote:
5) Player selection: Line is undecided as of now. As far as I know, the members most likely to represent the region are: PDD, Jing, Zz1tai, Uzi, LoveLin. I have no source of reference, so I can't really rate the players since I know so little. I will add that I’m personally a huge admirer of Uzi's talents, although I haven’t seen much of him, and would like to see him represent his region very much. We will be able to assess how good Doublelift truly is facing off against such a monstrous player.
LoveLin is an amazing support player and is often the recipient of target bans.
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On April 18 2013 03:39 thenexusp wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2013 03:35 Usagi wrote:On April 18 2013 03:28 Alaric wrote:On April 18 2013 03:14 Agnosthar wrote:On April 18 2013 03:01 Requizen wrote:On April 18 2013 02:54 Agnosthar wrote:On April 18 2013 02:51 ChaoSbringer wrote:Pretty sure its going to be the Black Frost Anivia skin or w/e its called. It's 100% Blackfrost Anivia, how have people forgotten about that already haha. Eh, it barely looks different enough to be Ultimate. I mean, they straight out said Ultimate is a reimagining with upgrades and completely new animations/voice overs - like Pulsefire. Is giving Anivia a dark skin and some metal really that different? Have you seen the skin? It's got brand new voice overs, new spell animations, and is awesome from a lore POV as well. Assuming you find their Frejold orgy awesome, of course. You made me think of Kim Mundo... Damn you! You make me feel bad that I know what you're talking about + Show Spoiler +
what is he talking about?
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Why the hell can't I get online right now...
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On April 19 2013 00:08 damahammer wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2013 03:39 thenexusp wrote:On April 18 2013 03:35 Usagi wrote:On April 18 2013 03:28 Alaric wrote:On April 18 2013 03:14 Agnosthar wrote:On April 18 2013 03:01 Requizen wrote:On April 18 2013 02:54 Agnosthar wrote:On April 18 2013 02:51 ChaoSbringer wrote:Pretty sure its going to be the Black Frost Anivia skin or w/e its called. It's 100% Blackfrost Anivia, how have people forgotten about that already haha. Eh, it barely looks different enough to be Ultimate. I mean, they straight out said Ultimate is a reimagining with upgrades and completely new animations/voice overs - like Pulsefire. Is giving Anivia a dark skin and some metal really that different? Have you seen the skin? It's got brand new voice overs, new spell animations, and is awesome from a lore POV as well. Assuming you find their Frejold orgy awesome, of course. You made me think of Kim Mundo... Damn you! You make me feel bad that I know what you're talking about + Show Spoiler + what is he talking about?
On April 18 2013 04:36 LateralusGaming wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2013 04:23 GhandiEAGLE wrote:On April 18 2013 03:44 wei2coolman wrote:On April 18 2013 03:39 thenexusp wrote:On April 18 2013 03:35 Usagi wrote:On April 18 2013 03:28 Alaric wrote:On April 18 2013 03:14 Agnosthar wrote:On April 18 2013 03:01 Requizen wrote:On April 18 2013 02:54 Agnosthar wrote:On April 18 2013 02:51 ChaoSbringer wrote:
[quote]
Pretty sure its going to be the Black Frost Anivia skin or w/e its called. It's 100% Blackfrost Anivia, how have people forgotten about that already haha. Eh, it barely looks different enough to be Ultimate. I mean, they straight out said Ultimate is a reimagining with upgrades and completely new animations/voice overs - like Pulsefire. Is giving Anivia a dark skin and some metal really that different? Have you seen the skin? It's got brand new voice overs, new spell animations, and is awesome from a lore POV as well. Assuming you find their Frejold orgy awesome, of course. You made me think of Kim Mundo... Damn you! You make me feel bad that I know what you're talking about + Show Spoiler + I'm guessing it's a good thing that I have no idea what the reference was. ITS A VERY GOOD THING I PROMISE YOU If anyone else is still curious about "Kim Mundo", I just google'd it and it's hentai. LoL hentai to be exact. So... to save everyone else, I thought I'd let you guys know.
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On April 19 2013 00:08 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Why the hell can't I get online right now...
Hardware maintenance.
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On April 19 2013 00:12 emperorchampion wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2013 00:08 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Why the hell can't I get online right now... Hardware maintenance.
Any idea on an ETA? I'd really like to not to homework right now.
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EPT
