EPT[Patch 3.05.1: Karma Remake] General Discussion - Page 38
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kongoline
6318 Posts
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Craton
United States17281 Posts
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On March 31 2013 17:25 Craton wrote: Without detailing their cycle (it's pretty much QQ, but it's nonetheless true), I'd say it has to do with their design team and balance team being on radically different pages. Many times their balance team has come out and said "yeah this is a really toxic / really op / broken element that we won't use again," but dev does it anyway and it comes out exactly as broken as it was before. Things that I heavily dislike and hope the design team tries their best to get out. Massive mobility - this is a big one. It's one thing to release champions with a dash/gap closer. It's another to release stuff with dash+gapcloser+hard CC. Also the mobility skill should be on the more costly side with regards to resources if it is ground targeted. Being able to get out should have a cost(and it does for a lot of the champs with blinks/dashes)(looking at khazix here,50 mana rusrs?). Retardproof laning phase(aka press buttons to win). Making a kit so strong, with so much utility that it needs to get nerfed into the ground before it's balanced(elise, zyra, diana, eve RM), CD based champs. When you have offensive skills with zero drawback to using them, it makes for knife edge balancing. Either the champ can use the skills on CD, and gets away with it, and basically auto wins lane, or else the other guy shrugs it off/hits you back twice as hard, and you lose. Really hard to strike a balance. % damage with multiple scaling(elise). Where did they get that this was going to be a good idea. Makes for extremely suffocating gameplay for a melee top because they try to be lower HP to take less damage, but if they are lower, they don't have the ability to all-in without dying. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On March 31 2013 18:14 wei2coolman wrote: Add virtually no manacost champs to "cd based champ"; it's pretty ridic how low the mana costs for champs are now... As much as people complain about "mobility creep" I honestly think "mana cost creep" has been much more severe. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On March 31 2013 18:29 TheYango wrote: As much as people complain about "mobility creep" I honestly think "mana cost creep" has been much more severe. mobility creep is fine, in the sense that there are counter play options to it, you can create a peel comp, or hard disengage comp (like gragas+janna+xin, etc champs) But, holy fuck, mana costs are absurdly ridiculously low, there's no counterplay involved. | ||
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kainzero
United States5211 Posts
jayce and khazix need tear vi using e in the jungle runs out of mana nami is a candidate for chalice depending on play style elise's neurotoxin can't be spammed anymore syndra needs chalice and can still run out of mana diana runs out of mana, can't spam crescent strike and shield in lane it's not on dota level but it is there. if mana costs were negligible, i don't think ap mids would complain about not getting blue. | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On March 31 2013 18:38 wei2coolman wrote: mobility creep is fine, in the sense that there are counter play options to it, you can create a peel comp, or hard disengage comp (like gragas+janna+xin, etc champs) But, holy fuck, mana costs are absurdly ridiculously low, there's no counterplay involved. I dislike mobility creep because it really, really fucks up my favourite champ(Anivia) when she's somewhat on the weak side(also has to do with the mana issue, people can push her in for 1/3 the mana early on, and at 6, they don't spend 3-500 mana per wave to clear it either). But mana management is honestly becoming a thing of the past. People get used to playing champs where there are no repercussions apart from CD for using a skill, and for a pure damage skill, you just throw it out because it costs nothing. Diana Q (basically negates the fact that she's a melee for the whole time pre-6 unless you're playing Swain or some other champ who destroys melee's). Khazix E, it's an ground targeted leap that basically costs half of any other leap/dash in the game, with no scaling cost either. Honestly I think mages should have mana costs somewhere around the Lux range, where you need a mana item, or else you're relegated to only clearing creeps, with skills generally being too costly to use on harass even with blue buff. On March 31 2013 18:50 kainzero wrote: i think mana costs are fine jayce and khazix need tear vi using e in the jungle runs out of mana nami is a candidate for chalice depending on play style elise's neurotoxin can't be spammed anymore syndra needs chalice and can still run out of mana diana runs out of mana, can't spam crescent strike and shield in lane it's not on dota level but it is there. if mana costs were negligible, i don't think ap mids would complain about not getting blue. Utility skills should cost more. This applies to khazix E. Almost all junglers run oom if they spam skills without blue(some like noct/cho don't really need much mana to clear really fast). This is not a unique problem. Not complaining about Elise now, but if she had reasonable mana costs in the first place they wouldn't have had to do all the nerfs. You can run out of mana on Anivia with blue buff + tear+roa. Building a single mana item is not a cause to call for a mana cost buff. If I had my way, every mage who wanted to do more than kill creeps endlessly with blue buff would have mana costs tuned to require a mana item. Diana runs oom if you have to use shield. Q is free. | ||
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Craton
United States17281 Posts
Something pretty close to half of the existing champions fell into the latter two categories. This was probably 6+ months ago, so you can imagine how it is now.  | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
Post list plox. | ||
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kongoline
6318 Posts
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mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
On March 31 2013 18:57 Amui wrote: I dislike mobility creep because it really, really fucks up my favourite champ(Anivia) when she's somewhat on the weak side(also has to do with the mana issue, people can push her in for 1/3 the mana early on, and at 6, they don't spend 3-500 mana per wave to clear it either). But mana management is honestly becoming a thing of the past. People get used to playing champs where there are no repercussions apart from CD for using a skill, and for a pure damage skill, you just throw it out because it costs nothing. Diana Q (basically negates the fact that she's a melee for the whole time pre-6 unless you're playing Swain or some other champ who destroys melee's). Khazix E, it's an ground targeted leap that basically costs half of any other leap/dash in the game, with no scaling cost either. Honestly I think mages should have mana costs somewhere around the Lux range, where you need a mana item, or else you're relegated to only clearing creeps, with skills generally being too costly to use on harass even with blue buff. Playing a lot of Zed recently, I feel like he's brining ressource management back to the table. On him, energy is more important than CDs, so it's sort of the same ! | ||
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Craton
United States17281 Posts
On March 31 2013 19:00 NeoIllusions wrote: lol, old mang Craton. Post list plox. So I was redoing it and it's closer to 90% need at least one ability remade or should be totally deleted... Although I consider things like changing true damage to magic/physical a remake, so some are less severe than others. | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On March 31 2013 19:06 kongoline wrote: yesterday i was watching stream incarnati0n guy (3.1k elo LOL) he mains fizz, it was interesting how he almost always got fb at lvl2 with cheese which seems very powerful, he uses 30 offence and arm/mr pen marks with red pot he literally 1 shot lux at lvl 2 (if possible shares exp with jungler from wraiths/wolves ) with W+Q + ignite combo it was hilarious. I wanted do the same today but hybrid marks cost 7.2k IP, fml I faced this recently. It's ridiculously cheesy, but extremely strong. Come to lane with like 30 flat AP, push pretty recklessly to hit level 2 ASAP, and just allin for free kill against anybody who doesn't flash the initial dash/stay completely zoned. Snowballs really hard too because it's a death so early against an assassin. Then team proceeds to rage at you etc etc. | ||
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AsnSensation
Germany24009 Posts
On March 31 2013 17:06 WaveofShadow wrote: So, colour me sexist but I'm pretty sure half of the streams on Solomid are now random girls streaming in tank tops. What the fuck is this. yeah pretty annoying, the other day there was a girl literally only showing her boobs on webcam and not even her face lol. | ||
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Craton
United States17281 Posts
Which reminds me of the other really obnoxious thing streamers are doing lately: Plastering the entirety of their stream with "recent donators: bob, joe, curly, alison, fred, freddy, alex, joe, joe bob, billy bob joe, sean" "top donators: noah, charlotte, oliver, henry, benhamin, ethan, lucas, owen, william, bill, billy, billy bob, joe bob, billy joe bob" (Also wtf why is "Declan" in the top 10 baby names for males and Liam #1? who the fk is naming these kids) | ||
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Lylat
France8575 Posts
On March 31 2013 19:20 Craton wrote: I dunno why I end up surprised that so many people watch them, but every time I end up going "REALLY?" Which reminds me of the other really obnoxious thing streamers are doing lately: Plastering the entirety of their stream with "recent donators: bob, joe, curly, alison, fred, freddy, alex, joe, joe bob, billy bob joe, sean" "top donators: noah, charlotte, oliver, henry, benhamin, ethan, lucas, owen, william, bill, billy, billy bob, joe bob, billy joe bob" (Also wtf why is "Declan" in the top 10 baby names for males and Liam #1? who the fk is naming these kids) Liam Neeson op | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On March 31 2013 18:57 Amui wrote: I dislike mobility creep because it really, really fucks up my favourite champ(Anivia) when she's somewhat on the weak side. wut Also Brand, Lux, Morgana have somewhat high mana costs too. You can actually force champs like Pantheon and Wukong, heavily skill-reliant and using harass, to manage mana much more than average during laning. Stuff like Nidalee and Jayce doesn't need Tear to function. It just makes them able to spamspamspam their abilities and either not care about missing 75% of them or beat the opponent's sustain while staying à 80% mana, which isn't the same as "needing Tear" or "having mana troubles" (using Lux or TF for the waveclear as siege protection against a very heavy push comp is a more "legit" way to need mana because it's not you using a "crutch" for missed skills but your opponent forcing you to spend all that mana). Lux is super safe so she doesn't care, Brand and Morgana can't really 100-0 the wave so easily so they can't stack AP as recklessly as her (plus on Morg you want Zhonya early unless you're fed), Syndra, Cass and Orianna don't have huge mana costs but they tend to need more spells to achieve the same results so it increases their consumption. I'd rather have champs balanced around examples like Viktor or Annie : they can easily clear and roam if they want to, but their costs are too prohibitive to just nuke the wave down every 30 seconds (the fact that they only have 1 AoE spell, on an average (Annie) long-ish (Viktor) cooldown, certainly helps), making blue buff important on them versus heavy pushers. Put Kha'Zix against Morde, once he's 6 he doesn't really care, he'll just W once every wave and Morde won't push him too fast. It's just that Tear allows him to spamspamspam that stuff mindlessly. | ||
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SnK-Arcbound
United States4423 Posts
On March 31 2013 17:16 kongoline wrote: so they nerfed Lee's E to the ground because it made his ganks too strong and release champion with knock ups and slows with retarded jump range, fuck riot No, they nerfed it because it was way out of line with other slows. Nunu's e was nerfed ages ago from 40-60%. Lee's never should have started at 40%. | ||
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kongoline
6318 Posts
On March 31 2013 22:54 SnK-Arcbound wrote: No, they nerfed it because it was way out of line with other slows. Nunu's e was nerfed ages ago from 40-60%. Lee's never should have started at 40%. how is 40% out of line and nasus wither isnt, any current fotm jungler has knockups+ slows which are way superior nobody plays lee nowadays because hes worthless compared to them, riot just keeps releasing new champions with retarded kits meanwhile nerfing others with way inferior. | ||
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