EPTAlso the loss of passive ArPen hurts his dps in lane a bit. And less sustain.
[Patch 3.02: Fake Quinn] General Discussion - Page 85
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Also the loss of passive ArPen hurts his dps in lane a bit. And less sustain. | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
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Lounge
537 Posts
On February 21 2013 00:51 TSBspartacus wrote: 40% makes him the second lowest, only above Karma, who is a traditional troll-pick anyway. Win rate isn't a huge factor, but more than 5% above/below 50% it shows the champion has some balance issues. Thanks for the replies, I think Riot can be very knee jerk with how many nerfs they apply at once, I'd rather only see one nerf at a time until they get a champion to a satisfactory level. Edit: You just said what I was trying to point out, they hit all aspects of a champion, rather than focusing on the little things that make that champion OP or UP. Olaf's always had a bad solo winrate. He has some tough lane match ups, which is countered by lane swaps in competitive play. (And his godly 2vs1 ability.) He always has an interesting teamfight, where he wants to dive/zone the carry. In SoloQ you'll have your team follow you and basically put their bruisers ontop of your carry as well, or the Olaf player won't have a sense of when to back off because he's zoned the carry from the fight, and his team should win now and he can just run away, and instead suicide dives trying to get that kill for his KDA ratio. I mean he has this perception of "use your ult and kill the carry gg" but that really only applies if you're ahead. When you're even or behind you have to have a greater sense of positioning and knowing how much damage you can absorb and then get the heck out. | ||
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raiame
United States421 Posts
That said, most of my games end up being smiteless blues, but it's not fast enough to get a double buff gank at level 1. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On February 21 2013 01:41 raiame wrote: Lol I'm pretty sure the guy who was talking about smiteless meant doing blue smiteless and then finishing red with smite. That said, most of my games end up being smiteless blues, but it's not fast enough to get a double buff gank at level 1. Getting the double buff level 3 gank when the enemy laner is level 1 requires the laner to know what he's doing. He has to push the lane slightly so that some of your creeps from the first wave stay alive, but not so hard that the wave gets too close to tower. | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
On February 21 2013 01:39 VayneAuthority wrote: darius has been a first pick/ban in competitive play long enough, glad he is finally getting nerfed. I must have missed something here. When was the last time you saw darius getting banned in a tournament game? Darius is nothing special, you bring hard-cc to your team, he's of no use. | ||
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Zhiroo
Kosovo2724 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On February 21 2013 01:48 Sponkz wrote: I must have missed something here. When was the last time you saw darius getting banned in a tournament game? Darius is nothing special, you bring hard-cc to your team, he's of no use. *whoosh* | ||
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Garbels
Austria653 Posts
On February 20 2013 18:22 Two_DoWn wrote: K so I have a new super fun hipster jungle for yall. Poppy. Seriously. Her clear is actually REAL quick, and her passive/w means you take next to no damage from critters. She ganks ok in top/bot thanks to her E, and she can actually just run in and whack people in any lane thanks to her W. Plus she absolutely fucks the shit out of a teamfight. She is SUPER mana heavy early on, however. I found first clear to be real quick, but once blue was gone I did start to run into issues before I grabbed some mana. Plus she has a plethera of options for items to build. The spellvamp madreds item would be sick on her, plus she is still more than happy to go tanky CDR items to spam q's out, so Locket etc. pickups are quite good. In my solo jungle testruns she performs really bad. Finished testrun with Chogath at 5:55 wit 50%+ health. Got executed on Poppy at 6:00 with wraith and wolfes still to go. Granted I did not optimize runes/masteries at all but I doubt it will change much. Testrun is wolfes -> blue -> wraith -> wolves -> red -> wraith -> wolves -> golems(smite) -> wraith -> wolfes. A fast jungler like Evelin will finish around 5:30(with almost no health). After some adjustments I could finish with Poppy at 6:45(allmost no health). Even her gank seems really weak but i did not try that. The testrun is obviously not like a real game but it gives you an idea. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On February 21 2013 01:39 VayneAuthority wrote: darius has been a first pick/ban in competitive play long enough, glad he is finally getting nerfed. Perhaps you're thinking about Renekton? No? Edit: Don't get me wrong, I'm fine with the nerf. It means that if you screw up and get dunked by Darius in lane, you don't come back to lane and immediately get re-dunked. It's a similar reasoning to why Riven got her ulti CD nerfed pretty hard. Execute ultis really should not be used in lane, and immediately reusable when the opposing laner returns from the fountain. | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
That said, not taking Smite on a Jungler is the epitome of stupidity. Not only would you have no way to contest for Dragon or Baron in a team situation, the enemy Jungler will counterjungle you all day. If he catches you doing a buff, he will last hit it for sure. Enjoy 1v1'ing the enemy Jungler who has your buffs. Edit: lol Yango. I, too, was baited by VayneAuthority. so gg. | ||
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JonGalt
Pootie too good!4331 Posts
On February 21 2013 01:48 Sponkz wrote: I must have missed something here. When was the last time you saw darius getting banned in a tournament game? Darius is nothing special, you bring hard-cc to your team, he's of no use. And one of the best penta dunks/ks in the game. Can't forget that. | ||
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Celial
2602 Posts
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On February 21 2013 02:14 Celial wrote: I try to find that interview or quote, some pro said "CHAMPION XY has no counter top", but I dont remember which champion they were talking about. I believe it was Renekton or Olaf. Or maybe Cho'gath? Me and a friend have been arguing about this all day, does anyone remember? Not sure if this is what you're talking about but MakNooN did say that about Renekton to a certain degree. | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On February 21 2013 01:58 Garbels wrote: In my solo jungle testruns she performs really bad. Finished testrun with Chogath at 5:55 wit 50%+ health. Got executed on Poppy at 6:00 with wraith and wolfes still to go. Granted I did not optimize runes/masteries at all but I doubt it will change much. Testrun is wolfes -> blue -> wraith -> wolves -> red -> wraith -> wolves -> golems(smite) -> wraith -> wolfes. A fast jungler like Evelin will finish around 5:30(with almost no health). After some adjustments I could finish with Poppy at 6:45(allmost no health). Even her gank seems really weak but i did not try that. The testrun is obviously not like a real game but it gives you an idea. I dunno if that run is a good way to gauge how strong a jungler is. Most games you're gonna try and gank before doing all of that. Other games you'll do full clear plus maybe wolves and wraiths. Poppy's full clear time is a lot more important than her clearing the jungle like 3 times until she dies. I can't imagine she's fast though since she's all single target and has no AS steroid. | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On February 21 2013 02:14 Celial wrote: I try to find that interview or quote, some pro said "CHAMPION XY has no counter top", but I dont remember which champion they were talking about. I believe it was Renekton or Olaf. Or maybe Cho'gath? Me and a friend have been arguing about this all day, does anyone remember? I believe that generally speaking, the safest top for 1v1 is irelia(or at least it was in S2) because she can build/play to survive & farm in basically every lane. There are hard matchups(and then there's darius where you almost 100% need to abuse a small window 1v1 to survive), but no hard counters. EDIT: if maknoon says renekton, that would make sense too. Decent-good 1v2(AoE clear&high burst sustain), as well as having one of the strongest 1v1 laning phases. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On February 21 2013 01:50 Zhiroo wrote: Has anyone ever encontered the invade where the enemy jungler hides in the bush that's near the red golem camp (not the one straight there, not the one behind either, the one before going to red camp from bot lane). I just got FB'd by a Vi who just appeared out of there without me expecting (I was Hecarim). I thought it was pretty smart and I've never seen it happen before. The one that is closer to your base than to river? Because I had a Shaco camp that one against me one time. Was super annoying until my toplane just came and dunked him. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On February 21 2013 01:39 VayneAuthority wrote: darius has been a first pick/ban in competitive play long enough, glad he is finally getting nerfed. Uh, he ceased to be that way before the nerfs. And when it's teams like TSM relying on him rather than, say, Gambit or the Koreans, I wouldn't put too much thought into it. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On February 21 2013 02:24 Slayer91 wrote: I like how renekton fluctuates from trash tier to godlike every few months when they don't even change him. I think this time it had a lot to do with people building full tank so they can be more manly instead of trying to build BT on an AoE melee champ. People must have realized the contradiction of building AD on a champ while simultaneously complaining that he doesn't scale well lategame. | ||
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