EPT[Patch 3.02: Fake Quinn] General Discussion - Page 146
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GhandiEAGLE
United States20754 Posts
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
It takes a while before they can really shove the wave back from their own tower, too, how do they keep their tower alive even if theyre not getting dived? | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
Lizard is 2.3K for 50 AD, some true damage burn, 10% CDR, regen and +25% minion damage. If you buy spirit stone, you get the regen and most of the +minion damage. A cutlass is 2.0K for 40 AD, lifesteal and a slow. So, if you get spirit stone and use the pickaxe to make a cutlass instead of completing the jungle item, you trade an extra 400 gold, 10 AD, CDR, the true burn for an on demand slow and some lifesteal. I feel like the slow will end up allowing you to do more damage than the burn + 10 AD b/c it means extra autos and cleaves. I don't know exactly how good Hec's ganks yet (I'm pretty new with him), so this might just end up being a crutch. It's a fairly flexible build path too, both items need a pickaxe. | ||
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ArchAngelSC
England706 Posts
On February 27 2013 01:32 justiceknight wrote: iceborn gaunlet and spirit elder lizard on Heca is a beast That's what I heard so I've been building it and do no damage at all. | ||
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Sabin010
United States1892 Posts
On February 27 2013 01:04 TheYango wrote: So you're looking at a solution to a very specific play that they are not required to do in order to make the 1v2 worth it and thinking it makes her 1v2 worthwhile overall? You need to be looking at the entire picture. The Anivia is on the Red side, so your team is also going to have a 2v1 situation top. I'm looking at this as a way to get ahead by pushing the top down, and still keep the bottom tower alive, while being in a postion to defend against the 3-man dive teams have been using to break the 2v1 lanes. If your top comes out ahead from breaking the tower first it puts you into a better situation when that lane backs and comes bottom. I guess there are tons of options the other team with 2 men bottom has, 4-man dragon at 5 minutes, level 1 lane swap themselves and invade golems, let the support roam etc, but it brings a little deception during picks and bans as Anivia going anywhere but mid is practically unheard of. | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
On February 27 2013 02:02 ticklishmusic wrote: Lizard is 2.3K for 50 AD, some true damage burn, 10% CDR, regen and +25% minion damage. If you buy spirit stone, you get the regen and most of the +minion damage. A cutlass is 2.0K for 40 AD, lifesteal and a slow. ashe's arrow is just a stun with some good range and some decent stun time xin's ult just does some damage and gives him some resists tryndamere just gets some hp back from his q you can make anything seem bad by underplaying it. true AOE damage that constantly reapplies and contributes to hecarim's healing is not just "some true damage burn." lizard elder is hands down one of the strongest items in the game, and this holds true triply so for champs that deal heavy AOE damage | ||
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Dusty
United States3359 Posts
On February 27 2013 02:05 ArchAngelSC wrote: That's what I heard so I've been building it and do no damage at all. thats all I build on him and then the game is over because I become an absolute monster. You are doing something wrong | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On February 27 2013 02:06 Sabin010 wrote: You need to be looking at the entire picture. The Anivia is on the Red side, so your team is also going to have a 2v1 situation top. I'm looking at this as a way to get ahead by pushing the top down, and still keep the bottom tower alive, while being in a postion to defend against the 3-man dive teams have been using to break the 2v1 lanes. If your top comes out ahead from breaking the tower first it puts you into a better situation when that lane backs and comes bottom. I guess there are tons of options the other team with 2 men bottom has, 4-man dragon at 5 minutes, level 1 lane swap themselves and invade golems, let the support roam etc, but it brings a little deception during picks and bans as Anivia going anywhere but mid is practically unheard of. Yes, but the biggest problem I see is that its such a hard gamble. Unlike Ahri or Zyra, if you guess wrong and they swap as well, Anivia vs. Bruiser in a long lane is untenable. Plus I think you are overestimating Anivia's HP pool at the critical lvl2-4 range. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On February 27 2013 02:06 Sabin010 wrote: You need to be looking at the entire picture. The Anivia is on the Red side, so your team is also going to have a 2v1 situation top. I'm looking at this as a way to get ahead by pushing the top down, and still keep the bottom tower alive, while being in a postion to defend against the 3-man dive teams have been using to break the 2v1 lanes. If your top comes out ahead from breaking the tower first it puts you into a better situation when that lane backs and comes bottom. I guess there are tons of options the other team with 2 men bottom has, 4-man dragon at 5 minutes, level 1 lane swap themselves and invade golems, let the support roam etc, but it brings a little deception during picks and bans as Anivia going anywhere but mid is practically unheard of. Anivia has worse counterpush pre-6 than most of the better 1v2s though. Her post-6 counterpush is obviously unstoppable, but good 2v1s by and large are capable of breaking the tower before level 6. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11517 Posts
On February 27 2013 02:02 ticklishmusic wrote: Question: why don't people build a gunblade on Hecarim? I know its expensive as shit, but it seems like it would be a decent choice, or at least bilgewater would be. It's harder to justify buying a revolver, but yeah. Lizard is 2.3K for 50 AD, some true damage burn, 10% CDR, regen and +25% minion damage. If you buy spirit stone, you get the regen and most of the +minion damage. A cutlass is 2.0K for 40 AD, lifesteal and a slow. So, if you get spirit stone and use the pickaxe to make a cutlass instead of completing the jungle item, you trade an extra 400 gold, 10 AD, CDR, the true burn for an on demand slow and some lifesteal. I feel like the slow will end up allowing you to do more damage than the burn + 10 AD b/c it means extra autos and cleaves. I don't know exactly how good Hec's ganks yet (I'm pretty new with him), so this might just end up being a crutch. It's a fairly flexible build path too, both items need a pickaxe. This does not sound realistic. For example, you ignore one of the major points of the spirit stone, which is that it allows you to farm shit a lot faster. Also, Spirit Stone + Cutlass is more expensive then Lizard. Basically, i just don't see the point in doing it, i doubt the active on cutlass is worth that much. So, what we are talking about here is SS + Cutlass vs Lizard. Lizard saves you 400g, gives you 10% CdR, 10 AD and the burn. Cutlass gives you lifesteal which you don't really profit from a lot and the active, which you can really mostly use when you are alread in range anyways. The stuff that stops Hecarim from punching you during ganks is either the turret, or that you CCd him and are out of range. In neither of those cases Cutlass will help you a lot. | ||
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Don_Julio
2220 Posts
I feel that it's really useful particularly as a supportive jungler. You can ward the shit out of the map. But I'm not even playing ranked yet so my mid- and toplaners dont really help warding so maybe that's why I like warding for myself so much. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Broetchenholer
Germany1944 Posts
On February 27 2013 02:05 ArchAngelSC wrote: That's what I heard so I've been building it and do no damage at all. Well Hecarim is pretty meh in the early game, without items, e does really low damage, but in my opinion, building damage first is not what he should do either. So, you end up getting IBG and spirit of the elder lizard quite late. In midgame, when you have a spirit visage and the armor item for ibg, you are really tanky, you get to their backline like malph, but you feart everyone, if you position well, the ad will not be able to kill you. So, mission accomplished. In Lategae, if you have IBG, spirit of the elder lizard and SV, you are suddenly dealing really good damage AND are unkillable. He is just a crazy good teamfighter. If you want early game dominance, though, you should probably pick sth else. | ||
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Tula
Austria1544 Posts
On February 27 2013 02:16 TheYango wrote: Good slot-efficiency but poor cost-efficiency after multiple nerfs. guess it depends on the jungler still. If your Lee sin and buying upwards of 10 wards a game (as good Lee's should) the sightstone would pay off. On Vi, hec, xin the usuall stuff I play, I stick to the 2-3 wards I can buy with leftover money after backing. Might not be costeffective either but, it's definitely better for my item timings. | ||
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ArchAngelSC
England706 Posts
On February 27 2013 02:11 Dusty wrote: thats all I build on him and then the game is over because I become an absolute monster. You are doing something wrong What skill order/masteries do you use? | ||
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Crownlol
United States3726 Posts
Once Jax and Vi had fullbuild, I was essentially a non-factor in teamfights. There's just not enough peels in the world to keep safe from all these bruisers with gapclosers and stuns. I think I'll probably go back to playing mid. | ||
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Mondeezy
United States1938 Posts
So Bly mentioned junglers aren't banned much in KR servers other than Xin. Do they just find the lane bans more "worth it", or do they prepare specific team comps to deal with certain junglers? I imagine it'd be hard to do in solo QQ(which is mainly what I'm speaking about). Edit: @above, I don't think AD is dead. Hyper carries like Vayne Kog Trist are still really strong late. Maybe we'll see some of the more midgame ad's like graves and Corki start laning mid or top... | ||
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GhandiEAGLE
United States20754 Posts
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Mensol
14536 Posts
Lee Sin is the best choice because they nerfed and stabilized him already. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Also I felt so powerless against an Olaf + Shyvana (well they fed Shyv so she had razor/mercs/phage/warmogs super early, and then they'd still try to fight her) as Graves. As better as BT is on him early on, I think I'll just rush IE+zeal every game that includes some HP stacking champ so I can tell them how unhappy I am to see their faces. | ||
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