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On January 22 2013 08:12 obesechicken13 wrote:
Thresh's ratios are kind of sad too. He gets free AP but much lower ratios.
He has a 1 Soul -> 1 Magic Damage ratio on his auto-attack. Support Thresh will literally be able to do 100-200 or more bonus damage on every single auto-attack without building any items.
On January 22 2013 08:19 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2013 08:08 Seuss wrote:On January 22 2013 07:45 ticklishmusic wrote:
Random math/thoughts on Thresh:
-one minion wave every 30 seconds
-20% chance of soul, 6 minions so average 1.2 souls per wave
-add on 1 guaranteed from siege minion every 3 waves
3 waves, 5.8 souls/1:30 (maximum, assuming you never leave lane and never miss a soul, so reality is probably going to be significantly less)
lets say lvl 18 takes about 25-30 minutes, so i'm going to use 30. 30/1.5 is 20 waves of minions. 20* 5.8 is 116. total bonus stats is around 33+ 38.25= 71 armor, plus base 18 for 89 armor and 71 ap. you'll have about the same armor as a normal lvl 18 champ, but the almost NLR ap is not bad.
however, this is under unreasonably ideal circumstances-- reality will be that you're probably somewhat squishier than other lvl 18 champs with some AP to compensate. overall its like hec's passive-- kind of cool in theory, but you're generally not playing the pony like he's seabiscuit.
but goddam his kit is cool as shit. Unless something has changed very recently the spawn rate is higher than 20%. As recently as last week it was closer to 40%. The rough average is 2 souls per creep wave, not counting cannon minions. But what I consistently see from watching youtube videos are support Threshes sitting in bushes while collectable souls sit out in the open. So if you just skip forward to their first back they have less than half the souls they should. It's painful. Eh, I'm going off of what the wiki says for the %drop, and I felt it was about right based on the couple times I played on PBE. Still, could be wrong though.
I was curious if the drop rate had been reduced, so I looked for recent videos (within the last week) on youtube and measured the drop rates on a handful up until the first back. They fairly uniformly averaged 2 souls per wave (though the Threshes involved didn't pick up even half the souls, derp).
Whether that's still true of the current PBE I can't say as I'm at work, but given that the wiki's 20% number has PENDING FOR TEST in bold red text next to it I can't imagine anyone associated with the wiki has done a careful, thorough study.
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On January 22 2013 07:54 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Can we have a "Real Talk" thread where people just periodically go and post what they really think about each other in the subforum? :3
GD wouldn't get cluttered/derailed, and we can organize all the drama in one neat little thread.
It wouldn't be the same. It would quickly turn into the shit the qq thread has become.
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Does the number mean that every 5 creeps that die you will get one or that it's the chance a certain one to drop it?They really should just make it like a cd that gets reduced every x minion dies near him because rng is retarded.
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On January 22 2013 08:42 nafta wrote:
Does the number mean that every 5 creeps that die you will get one or that it's the chance a certain one to drop it?They really should just make it like a cd that gets reduced every x minion dies near him because rng is retarded.
It's pseudo-RNG. The more creeps that die near you without yielding a soul, the higher the chance the next creep will drop one. Over time this averages out to whatever drop rate Riot desires (20%, 40%, or wherever they're pegged it).
When Miscue and I tested the RNG we remained within 1 soul of each other for the first 15 minutes of play in two consecutive games. You're not going to get screwed by the RNG.
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lol oddone is 1800 elo? well I guess that explains it.
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I hate the idea of being harshly punished for leaving the lane as the support.
Esp. with Thresh's kit.
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On January 22 2013 07:58 I_Love_Bacon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2013 07:54 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Can we have a "Real Talk" thread where people just periodically go and post what they really think about each other in the subforum? :3
GD wouldn't get cluttered/derailed, and we can organize all the drama in one neat little thread. C_Sheep is actually a level 3 vegan. Come at me, bro.
I have it on good authority that ZNF feeds him meat all the time.
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On January 22 2013 08:54 qanik wrote:
lol oddone is 1800 elo? well I guess that explains it.
He's been in 1800-2000 for more than 3 months now I think.. His jungling is much more suited for coordinated games but it's still a testament of certain incompetence that he's absolutely not able to carry himself to high Elo when Dominate got to top 10 in 100 games
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How close to a soul do you need to be to collect it? Seems like a terrible way to open yourself up to harass. Its like even more obvious last hitting.
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On January 22 2013 09:00 OutlaW- wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2013 08:54 qanik wrote:
lol oddone is 1800 elo? well I guess that explains it. He's been in 1800-2000 for more than 3 months now I think.. His jungling is much more suited for coordinated games but it's still a testament of certain incompetence that he's absolutely not able to carry himself to high Elo when Dominate got to top 10 in 100 games
Oddone has always had bad mechanics though and now I think they been on break/not playing for quite some time. Mechanics generally let you carry more in weaker games I think.
EDIT: He also seems to be getting wriggles a lot. Thought the consensus was that upgrading razor to wriggles was bad
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On January 22 2013 09:00 OutlaW- wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2013 08:54 qanik wrote:
lol oddone is 1800 elo? well I guess that explains it. He's been in 1800-2000 for more than 3 months now I think.. His jungling is much more suited for coordinated games but it's still a testament of certain incompetence that he's absolutely not able to carry himself to high Elo when Dominate got to top 10 in 100 games
He just needs someone telling him what to do and when. Its not entirely correct to compare him to IWD. TOO limits himself to what he jungles, it has to make some sense to claim practice. IWD carried himself out with Shaco. Standard junglers you normally see in competitive play, floats around the 50% w/l for IWD.
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On January 22 2013 09:12 Irave wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2013 09:00 OutlaW- wrote:On January 22 2013 08:54 qanik wrote:
lol oddone is 1800 elo? well I guess that explains it. He's been in 1800-2000 for more than 3 months now I think.. His jungling is much more suited for coordinated games but it's still a testament of certain incompetence that he's absolutely not able to carry himself to high Elo when Dominate got to top 10 in 100 games He just needs someone telling him what to do and when. Its not entirely correct to compare him to IWD. TOO limits himself to what he jungles, it has to make some sense to claim practice. IWD carried himself out with Shaco. Standard junglers you normally see in competitive play, floats around the 50% w/l for IWD.
You're right.
The difference is still huge, however, and Dominate's Olaf is tournament-level anyway. The difference between 2400 and 1800 is 600 elo, which is also the difference between 1200 and 1800 (which is fucking massive). Being good at soloq doesn't automatically mean that you're good for competitive matches (tournaments) and the reverse is also true, but Oddone must obviously be doing something horribly wrong.
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i think oddone just cares more about entertaining his viewers than solo queue elo
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No, he cares about both, I think.
If he didn't care about Elo (thus winning games), then he wouldn't constantly feel the need to point out the mistakes of his allies and whine (1 step below raging, which is unacceptable)
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Current Zhonya: 100 AP, 50 armour, Statis, 3100 gold.
PBE Zhonya: 120 AP, 50 armour, Stasis, 3375 gold.
Current Zhonya can be built from a chain vest, allowing you to pad your armour with a less cost-efficient, but much more slot-efficient item than cloth armor. After all, it's 40 armour for 720 gold.
PBE Zhonya will require you to spend 600 gold on 30 armour and 2 slots, and pay an additional 525 gold to reduce it to one slot (albeit with some AP), and then rack up 30 last hits (including champs) just so you can reach up to 45 armour. For 1125 gold. Oh, and 40 AP too, but when what I want is armour I really feel screwed.
So Riot wants to give AP mids the option to start cloth+5, more itemization options, and help mages with armour.
And they come up with what I dare you to come to my face and call anything other than a straight-up Zhonya nerf, if only because of its build-up path and all those slot-inefficient mid-tier items that fuck up all of your build-up with silly timings—that is, if you don't want it to be an even clearer nerf by having less armour for more gold at the same time than now.
Goddammit Riot. Viktor's item slots also yell "Fuck you, really".
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United States47024 Posts
Like I said, I have no clue why Riot thinks APs need another item to turn Cloth into when Locket is still OP enough for everyone to buy.
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On January 22 2013 07:54 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Can we have a "Real Talk" thread where people just periodically go and post what they really think about each other in the subforum? :3
GD wouldn't get cluttered/derailed, and we can organize all the drama in one neat little thread.
We had a drama thread. And a "who's got the biggest e-peen" thread. Both got closed within like 36 hours of their creation.
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On January 22 2013 09:20 OutlaW- wrote:
No, he cares about both, I think.
If he didn't care about Elo (thus winning games), then he wouldn't constantly feel the need to point out the mistakes of his allies and whine (1 step below raging, which is unacceptable)
OddOne gets so many viewers because of the persona he's created that derives humor through pointing out mistakes that his team, the other team, and even himself (yes, he quite often admits when he has made a mistake as well) has made. If you don't like OddOne than his bitching will come off as annoying, otherwise it's hilarious.
And I think that OddOne is stuck around 1800~ because he mains support junglers, attempting to allow his lanes to get fed in order to win the game. At that elo, it's dangerous to put the fate of the game in possible failing lanes' hands, but it's how OddOne plays. It works in tournament play with a coordinated team, but not so much in solo q.
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On January 22 2013 09:32 TheYango wrote:
Like I said, I have no clue why Riot thinks APs need another item to turn Cloth into when Locket is still OP enough for everyone to buy.
But I don't want to sacrifice damage wah wah wah wah wah.
That's why.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
It has nothing to do with support junglers, I gained elo playing jungle nunu from about 2000 to 2100 with ease, in many cases support junglers are easier to get elo with. And no, it is not at all more dangerous to rely on your teammates when playing a support jungler than to (oh the horror!) rely on your teammates when playing a farmy jungler, it makes effectively zero difference.
To me it seems that the problem is not enough focus. If you indeed are "better" than your elo indicates, yet you seem unable to carry yourself, I think the most probable cause is that you assume way too many things about both your teammates and opponents, instead of carefully considering all possibilities, which leads to mistakes and surprises. There are many an assumptions one can make without being aware of it, and while they are safe or almost safe at certain levels of play, they are still a profound weakness overall.
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EPT
