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On December 14 2012 13:24 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 13:20 wei2coolman wrote:On December 14 2012 13:16 NeoIllusions wrote:On December 14 2012 13:10 Eppa! wrote:
What is the deal with western AD carries? Yellowpete, Genja, Chaox just so much weaker than Korean and Chinese ADCs. It's like only doublelift is a top tier AD carry in the western scene with Genja being second. Mid, Top and Jungle are super strong in EU scene (especially mid and jungle). Asian teams tends to be very good at Bot and Mid especially, where mechanics shine the most. Top and Jungle in particular are largely game sense. I disagree, Korean tops are just on a whole other level compared to other regions, If you'd want to argue that game sense more important for top lanes, then we'd see a fairly even field of top laners in terms of skill across regions, but we simply don't. No one in the west have any top laners that can compete on equal footing with top tier Asian top laners. In less than a year, Koreans are going to starting blowing "foreign" teams out and we're going to see this chasm. Maybe other Asian teams (WE, TPA, etc) can stand a chance but I see the gap widening. That's just my prediction. Half a year ago, we could have said NA/EU had Top/Jungle that were superior to the Asians but it's not that accurate today. Your S-tier Top laners like MakNooN, Shy, and Stanley have unparalleled game sense that surpass even the old beta NAs. Even jungle kings like saint have stagnated it seems.
I think a bigger attribution to korean skill gap in whatever lane to their western counterpart simply has to do with hardwork, not necessarily "oh game sense and mechanics", which makes it sound as if it's some innate genetic inheritance.
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I hope NomNom succeeds to get into the Season 3 thing. It'd be an awesome success story
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United States37500 Posts
On December 14 2012 13:40 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 13:24 NeoIllusions wrote:On December 14 2012 13:20 wei2coolman wrote:On December 14 2012 13:16 NeoIllusions wrote:On December 14 2012 13:10 Eppa! wrote:
What is the deal with western AD carries? Yellowpete, Genja, Chaox just so much weaker than Korean and Chinese ADCs. It's like only doublelift is a top tier AD carry in the western scene with Genja being second. Mid, Top and Jungle are super strong in EU scene (especially mid and jungle). Asian teams tends to be very good at Bot and Mid especially, where mechanics shine the most. Top and Jungle in particular are largely game sense. I disagree, Korean tops are just on a whole other level compared to other regions, If you'd want to argue that game sense more important for top lanes, then we'd see a fairly even field of top laners in terms of skill across regions, but we simply don't. No one in the west have any top laners that can compete on equal footing with top tier Asian top laners. In less than a year, Koreans are going to starting blowing "foreign" teams out and we're going to see this chasm. Maybe other Asian teams (WE, TPA, etc) can stand a chance but I see the gap widening. That's just my prediction. Half a year ago, we could have said NA/EU had Top/Jungle that were superior to the Asians but it's not that accurate today. Your S-tier Top laners like MakNooN, Shy, and Stanley have unparalleled game sense that surpass even the old beta NAs. Even jungle kings like saint have stagnated it seems. I think a bigger attribution to korean skill gap in whatever lane to their western counterpart simply has to do with hardwork, not necessarily "oh game sense and mechanics", which makes it sound as if it's some innate genetic inheritance.
Of course, hard work and practice is 90% of it. But brilliance can't be taught. There's a reason why Koreans think Stanley and MakNooN are gods at Top.
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I always thought they where overrated especially MakNooN i expect to fall of decently hard (sorta like wicked has). Shy/Caomei/Darien(because of EU bias but whatever) are the ones that i expect to excel in s3.
EU has a large talent pool but lacks a lot of the infrastructure that Asian countries have.
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Can someone explain to me the Cost benefit analysis of Ashe vs. Kog? Not in a typical sense of "which wins XXX" but, like when one is better than the other. I ask, because everytime I play Ashe I think "Dang, I Shoulda played Kog!"
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
You want absurd dps? Pick Kog.
You want good initiation? Pick Ashe.
Of course there's more to it than just that.
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United States37500 Posts
On December 14 2012 13:59 Roffles wrote:
You want absurd dps? Pick Kog.
You want good initiation? Pick Ashe.
Of course there's more to it than just that.
Nah, you covered it well, lolol.
They're both fairly subpar in lane. :3
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I feel kog is currently a lot stronger because his laning phase is actually decent for a hyper-carry. Surviving the laning phase as Vayne and Ashe seem like an improbable task.
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On December 14 2012 14:01 Sufficiency wrote:
I feel kog is currently a lot stronger because his laning phase is actually decent for a hyper-carry. Surviving the laning phase as Vayne and Ashe seem like an improbable task.
I am terrible at Vayne (although she is my favorite character  ), but I find Kog's lane super easy compared to Ashe as well. Then I just truck after lvl 9/11 and ashe has arrow that everyone sucks at following up on
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United States47024 Posts
On December 14 2012 14:01 Sufficiency wrote:
I feel kog is currently a lot stronger because his laning phase is actually decent for a hyper-carry. Surviving the laning phase as Vayne and Ashe seem like an improbable task.
I would argue that Ashe/Vayne have more suppressive ability in a 2v1 lane though due to having higher killing potential, which is where you're typically going to see the weak laning carries in a competitive game anyway.
In solo queue, well good luck.
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United States37500 Posts
On December 14 2012 14:02 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 14:01 Sufficiency wrote:
I feel kog is currently a lot stronger because his laning phase is actually decent for a hyper-carry. Surviving the laning phase as Vayne and Ashe seem like an improbable task. I am terrible at Vayne (although she is my favorite character ), but I find Kog's lane super easy compared to Ashe as well. Then I just truck after lvl 9/11 and ashe has arrow that everyone sucks at following up on
Ashe's only redeeming quality is her initiation. No escapes, decent kite I guess.
I would almost never pick her in solo q. A team that doesn't follow up on ECA makes her kit a waste.
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Ezreal is best solo q champ, free flash is too good
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On December 14 2012 14:06 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 14:01 Sufficiency wrote:
I feel kog is currently a lot stronger because his laning phase is actually decent for a hyper-carry. Surviving the laning phase as Vayne and Ashe seem like an improbable task. I would argue that Ashe/Vayne have more suppressive ability in a 2v1 lane though due to having higher killing potential, which is where you're typically going to see the weak laning carries in a competitive game anyway. In solo queue, well good luck.
i find kog quite effective in lane since @ my elo, ppl typically don't respond properly to the range disparity when i pop bioarcane barrage.
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Draven gud for solo Q, just stomp bot lane until you get 5 man dived then its k your WW with Philo Wits is pushing top hard
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United States37500 Posts
Since we're on the topic of ADCs,
TWITCH, so good to see so many AD players picking him up, from qtpie to Cop.
Draven, still hasn't caught on. I don't have a clue why. His laning is absurb but I guess in late game team fights, he can get dove on hard. @_@
Sivir, don't know why she isn't a go to pick more often, not even for Double. With all these new AD items, she would be so redonk.
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On December 14 2012 14:06 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 14:02 cLutZ wrote:On December 14 2012 14:01 Sufficiency wrote:
I feel kog is currently a lot stronger because his laning phase is actually decent for a hyper-carry. Surviving the laning phase as Vayne and Ashe seem like an improbable task. I am terrible at Vayne (although she is my favorite character ), but I find Kog's lane super easy compared to Ashe as well. Then I just truck after lvl 9/11 and ashe has arrow that everyone sucks at following up on Ashe's only redeeming quality is her initiation. No escapes, decent kite I guess. I would almost never pick her in solo q. A team that doesn't follow up on ECA makes her kit a waste.
<3
This is kinda the answer I wanted. I love Kog and Ashe. Hate all other AD's, none are banned so now I have my answer!
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Saint hasn't been an impressive jungler ever since people figured out carry junglers are dumb and a waste of the spot and tanky junglers essentially always beat out the carries.
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Draven/Cait namba 1 solo Q carries snowballs from lane better than anyone else Draven/Lulu and Cait/Nunu are super strong in soloQ.
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On December 14 2012 14:01 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 13:59 Roffles wrote:
You want absurd dps? Pick Kog.
You want good initiation? Pick Ashe.
Of course there's more to it than just that. Nah, you covered it well, lolol. They're both fairly subpar in lane. :3
ashe has some really good lanes especially against cait who is quickly becoming fotm
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On December 14 2012 14:12 NeoIllusions wrote:
Since we're on the topic of ADCs,
TWITCH, so good to see so many AD players picking him up, from qtpie to Cop.
Draven, still hasn't caught on. I don't have a clue why. His laning is absurb but I guess in late game team fights, he can get dove on hard. @_@
Sivir, don't know why she isn't a go to pick more often, not even for Double. With all these new AD items, she would be so redonk.
Twitch's early burst is still being underestimated despite it doing big damages even after a big nerf, Draven not seeing much play because takes a little more skill than right clicking to play him, you have to right click AND move, SO HARD
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EPT
