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Slow Motion
United States6960 Posts
On December 14 2012 12:58 Sufficiency wrote: I donno about best mechanics though. I have never done the counts, but he probably has the greatest number of deaths in lane due to opposing laner alone. I bet that distinction belongs to Scarra. | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
On December 14 2012 11:38 PrinceXizor wrote: as long as it's comfortable up there for you guys i really don't give a shit what you guys are saying. User was temp banned for this post. nooooo xizor we will be so sad to see you go. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On December 14 2012 13:05 Slow Motion wrote: I bet that distinction belongs to Scarra. No I think scarra gets caught often. Nyjacky dies in lane randomly often without enemy jungler interference. | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
If anything, for an AP mid, I think mechanics is largely execution of your combo in lane and in team fights to get kill (or at the very least to maximize damage) | ||
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Eppa!
Sweden4641 Posts
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Praetorial
United States4241 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On December 14 2012 13:10 Eppa! wrote: What is the deal with western AD carries? Yellowpete, Genja, Chaox just so much weaker than Korean and Chinese ADCs. It's like only doublelift is a top tier AD carry in the western scene with Genja being second. Mid, Top and Jungle are super strong in EU scene (especially mid and jungle). Each region is always going to have their strengths and weaknesses, you could just as easily ask why korean mids not as good as EU mids. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
Also, IMO Dyrus on Darius is a waste. Hes susceptible to laneswaps and even in 1v1 Dryrus does better with Singed, Jax, Vlad, Jayce, Olaf, etc. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On December 14 2012 11:38 PrinceXizor wrote: as long as it's comfortable up there for you guys i really don't give a shit what you guys are saying. User was temp banned for this post. You had your chance to DAAAAAARKNEESSSSSSSSSSS Neo and you blew it. Why would you blow such a perfect opportunity. | ||
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On December 14 2012 13:10 Eppa! wrote: What is the deal with western AD carries? Yellowpete, Genja, Chaox just so much weaker than Korean and Chinese ADCs. It's like only doublelift is a top tier AD carry in the western scene with Genja being second. Mid, Top and Jungle are super strong in EU scene (especially mid and jungle). Asian teams tends to be very good at Bot and Mid especially, where mechanics shine the most. Top and Jungle in particular are largely game sense. | ||
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schmutttt
Australia3856 Posts
TOO was bad vs Crs today and horrible at IPL. | ||
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On December 14 2012 13:16 Ketara wrote: You had your chance to DAAAAAARKNEESSSSSSSSSSS Neo and you blew it. Why would you blow such a perfect opportunity. I darkness threads. ;_; | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On December 14 2012 13:16 NeoIllusions wrote: Asian teams tends to be very good at Bot and Mid especially, where mechanics shine the most. Top and Jungle in particular are largely game sense. I disagree, Korean tops are just on a whole other level compared to other regions, If you'd want to argue that game sense more important for top lanes, then we'd see a fairly even field of top laners in terms of skill across regions, but we simply don't. No one in the west have any top laners that can compete on equal footing with top tier Asian top laners. | ||
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On December 14 2012 13:20 wei2coolman wrote: I disagree, Korean tops are just on a whole other level compared to other regions, If you'd want to argue that game sense more important for top lanes, then we'd see a fairly even field of top laners in terms of skill across regions, but we simply don't. No one in the west have any top laners that can compete on equal footing with top tier Asian top laners. In less than a year, Koreans are going to starting blowing "foreign" teams out and we're going to see this chasm. Maybe other Asian teams (WE, TPA, etc) can stand a chance but I see the gap widening. That's just my prediction. Half a year ago, we could have said NA/EU had Top/Jungle that were superior to the Asians but it's not that accurate today. Your S-tier Top laners like MakNooN, Shy, and Stanley have unparalleled game sense that surpass even the old beta NAs. Even jungle kings like saint have stagnated it seems. | ||
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Eppa!
Sweden4641 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Top is strong in Korea because the initial talent pool was heavily tilted toward strong top laners (All 3 of MiG, EDG, and OP had strong tops initially--Lilac, Maknoon, RJS), and the community's talent fed off of their insight and grew more rapidly than on other roles. Similarly in China, the predominant initial influence in terms of talent to Chinese competitive LoL was CCM, of which you could say the only 2 stand-out players were Wh1t3zz and Tabe, who more or less shaped the growth of Chinese Mid and AD play. Hell Wh1t3zz single-handedly turned TF into "the champ every Chinese AP knows how to play". On December 14 2012 13:25 Eppa! wrote: Soaz and Darien are just as good korean tops, The reason EU teams have been losing is mostly because of weak bot play. Fnatic and M5 got such hi spots mostly because of their top and mid lanes carrying their bot lane. I don't agree. Every Asian top laner they played against at IPL5 could be said to be a tier below the real top level of Korean top lane play (Stanley, Caomei, and Flame are all definitely below the Shy/Maknoon/Lilac level of top lane play). They did well against the tops they faced at IPL5, but not enough to convince me that they're also a level above them. In particular, Darien's 1v2 experience seems to be severely lacking. | ||
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thenexusp
United States3721 Posts
Level 12 ashe has 80.5 AD and 0.658+0.264 AS IE + PD is 150.5 AD, 1.251 AS, 55% crit chance, for a dps of 343.6 IE + SS is 150.5 AD, 1.185 AS, 45% crit chance, for a dps of 298.7, discounting the chain lightning passive. If we proc the lightning every 5th hit*, we can fudge things a bit and say that's 20 additional AD on the main target (yes, this ignores it's magic not physical damage, but it can crit so it's almost the same thing). Rerunning the above calculation with 170.5 AD gives a dps of 338.4, which is pretty close to IE+PD. statikk shiv is cheaper than PD and has a nicer build up, and ranged AD carries generally don't need the ghost passive on PD. It also has the advantage of doing more damage up-front, since you'll almost certainly have a fully charged up shiv at the beginning of your fight due to moving around. Also this calculation had completely ignored the fact that shiv can chain to 4 targets, although taking advantage of this is probably hard. The fact that it does magic damage kind of sucks, since it won't benefit from your LW. But people don't always build an even split of armor and MR every game. shiv might be a good alternative to PD if your opponents have a good reason to go heavier on armor and lighter on MR. * is getting the proc every 5th hit practical? I think you should be able to do it if you are good at scoot-n-shooting, but it will definitely be suboptimal if you just stand still and shoot | ||
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Eppa!
Sweden4641 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On December 14 2012 13:24 NeoIllusions wrote: In less than a year, Koreans are going to starting blowing "foreign" teams out and we're going to see this chasm. Maybe other Asian teams (WE, TPA, etc) can stand a chance but I see the gap widening. That's just my prediction. Half a year ago, we could have said NA/EU had Top/Jungle that were superior to the Asians but it's not that accurate today. Your S-tier Top laners like MakNooN, Shy, and Stanley have unparalleled game sense that surpass even the old beta NAs. Even jungle kings like saint have stagnated it seems. Korea's going to pull ahead of the rest of Asia based on a deeper talent pool to draw on, even though practice habits will converge. Unless DotA utterly collapses in China, the talent that LoL gets to draw upon in the Chinese scene is going to be inevitably limited. LoL reaching premier E-sport status in Korea means that it gets the cream of the crop when it comes to new, talented players. This is already quite apparent given how much slower the influx of new top-level teams is in China compared to Korea. | ||
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On December 14 2012 13:35 Eppa! wrote: A couple of months ago Shy/Maknoon /lilac would be rated higher but as of late neither of the IM, Sword or Frost have been showing impressive levels above the rest. Especially as the Chinese scene is seeing amazing skill improvement. ?? Shy/MakNooN/Stanley are my picks for S Tier. @_@ | ||
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