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[Patch 1.0.0.153: Preseason Balance Update 1] GD - Page 70

Forum Index > LoL General
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Imperium11
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States279 Posts
December 18 2012 22:41 GMT
#1381
On December 19 2012 07:40 jcc wrote:
My client stopped working and I can't access the site, did the NA servers go down?


Came on here to ask the same thing.
Amarok
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia2003 Posts
December 18 2012 22:42 GMT
#1382
On December 19 2012 07:35 Requizen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 19 2012 07:30 Inschato wrote:
On December 19 2012 07:22 Phrost wrote:
I thought elisa's gave tenacity... imho if it had that again it'd be worth buying

I think if they put an actual useful stat on an item that up and disappears it would be broken. Like, if it had Tenacity on it right now, no one would buy any of the other tenacity items ever (except manaless champions maybe.)

Well, that's an issue with the "disappearing item" design as it is. If it's good, anyone who wants the stat (in the case of Tenacity, pretty much everyone unless the enemy team has no CC) will buy it. If the stats aren't good (low amounts of regen, for instance, or CDR on Summoners that many people don't take) then it's pointless to get.

Imagine if there was like an AD or AP one. I mean, damn.


It would still come down to whether the item was gold efficient. A gold inefficient item is going to put you behind no matter whether the stats are useful or not, and slot efficiency is absolutely worthless if you have open slots which is usually going to be the case prior to the 40 minute mark.
Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity
willoc
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada1530 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-18 22:45:05
December 18 2012 22:44 GMT
#1383
On December 19 2012 07:04 Amarok wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 19 2012 06:39 willoc wrote:
On December 19 2012 06:11 Amarok wrote:
On Elysias Miracle, I've been curious to try it on Dominion. If you're taking the Summoner Spell cooldown mastery you can get Revive's CD down to around 6 minutes. This means you can (generally) use it 4 times instead of 3 and have less downtime on the health bonus. The slot efficiency isn't that useful, but assuming you can use the sustain it might be worth the early sacrifice to combat stats on some champs by purchasing it straight out of the gate.


I saw this being discussed somewhere else but the benefits of a decrease in Revive cooldown is a bit suspect as you would have to die and revive a lot to get that extra revive in the short time-frame of a Dominion match. Revive has been nerfed a bit too... dunno if it will be such a dominant summoner spell in Dominion anymore but we will have to see.


I think that holds much more true in SR than it does in Dom. In close hard fought games you're going to be dying a fair bit, and even when stomping I find that I die a few times due to the regularity of teamfights. Because of the decreased rewards on champ kills, things like sacrificing yourself to hold a point for a few extra seconds while reinforcements arrive or putting yourself out of position and pushing down a point giving time for an assassin to gank bot before shooting back to defend top with imp revive can really change the flow of a game in a way no other summoner can.

Trouble with Miracle is that Revive really is for making game changing plays, while regen isn't really a combat statistic that helps you do that. It's also a combat statistic that is most valuable when you're alive for a significant period of time, again not something that synergizes particularly well with Revive. It's still tempting because the massive CD is the only thing keeping Revive from being downright broken in there.


Also just wanted to point out that when doing calculations on how often you can use Revive you have to factor in excess alive time as you will never always die right when your revive gets off cooldown. As the cooldown time drops, i would think that the excess alive time would go up as well because you wouldn't start dying more often/earlier (unless intentionally?).
Be bold and mighty forces will come to your aid!
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
December 18 2012 22:46 GMT
#1384
On December 19 2012 07:11 Requizen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 19 2012 06:59 sob3k wrote:
The only use I have for eliesas is an early item on complete bankplank, allows him the regen to spam all day long while still having enough slots for a full item build.

The item itself just has like split personality, it makes no sense...item whose benefit is slot efficiency.... and support stats (the only role who gives no fucks about slot efficiency), loses gp5. It makes zero sense.

Would you do the upgrade early for Bankplank and absorb by like level 8 just for the regen? I've never felt wanting for mana with him, honestly, with just mana pots (well flask now) and paying attention. Unless I'm really spamming Ult and W, but that's kind of rare, even when you're in full out farm mode.


You are ideally using around 6 parleys per wave, maybe more because cannon and harass, so yeah you need the regen. If you are managing your mana on avarice blade bankplank you just aren't farming very well.
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-18 22:47:56
December 18 2012 22:46 GMT
#1385
On December 19 2012 07:42 Amarok wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 19 2012 07:35 Requizen wrote:
On December 19 2012 07:30 Inschato wrote:
On December 19 2012 07:22 Phrost wrote:
I thought elisa's gave tenacity... imho if it had that again it'd be worth buying

I think if they put an actual useful stat on an item that up and disappears it would be broken. Like, if it had Tenacity on it right now, no one would buy any of the other tenacity items ever (except manaless champions maybe.)

Well, that's an issue with the "disappearing item" design as it is. If it's good, anyone who wants the stat (in the case of Tenacity, pretty much everyone unless the enemy team has no CC) will buy it. If the stats aren't good (low amounts of regen, for instance, or CDR on Summoners that many people don't take) then it's pointless to get.

Imagine if there was like an AD or AP one. I mean, damn.


It would still come down to whether the item was gold efficient. A gold inefficient item is going to put you behind no matter whether the stats are useful or not, and slot efficiency is absolutely worthless if you have open slots which is usually going to be the case prior to the 40 minute mark.

I'd tend to disagree. If there was, say, a 50 AD item that disappeared after 3 levels but was gold-inefficient, you'd feel obligated to buy it no matter what on an AD carry in my opinion. If you don't, sure you get a stronger early/mid by going for IE or whatever, but if the enemy holds out on you, their late game build is now 50 AD stronger than yours and there is absolutely nothing you can do about that. Either you win the mid game against them hard enough to compensate, or they hold off long enough for it to take effect.

Of course, this all depends on things like team comps and strategies, but enough teams can drag out games to 40+ minutes pretty easily if they're good enough.

On December 19 2012 07:46 sob3k wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 19 2012 07:11 Requizen wrote:
On December 19 2012 06:59 sob3k wrote:
The only use I have for eliesas is an early item on complete bankplank, allows him the regen to spam all day long while still having enough slots for a full item build.

The item itself just has like split personality, it makes no sense...item whose benefit is slot efficiency.... and support stats (the only role who gives no fucks about slot efficiency), loses gp5. It makes zero sense.

Would you do the upgrade early for Bankplank and absorb by like level 8 just for the regen? I've never felt wanting for mana with him, honestly, with just mana pots (well flask now) and paying attention. Unless I'm really spamming Ult and W, but that's kind of rare, even when you're in full out farm mode.


You are ideally using around 6 parleys per wave, maybe more because cannon and harass, so yeah you need the regen. If you are managing your mana on avarice blade bankplank you just aren't farming very well.

I chug pots and steal Blues. Probably not as viable once I start meeting better top laners
It's your boy Guzma!
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-18 22:48:47
December 18 2012 22:47 GMT
#1386
well your team can choose to go for plays similar to having aegis(dota) when the cd comes up, but in all honesty then you are blowing 2 summoners for 1 gimmicky teamfight style (useless w/o tp)

the reality is something drastic has to change about revive for it to be good at this point.
Carrilord has arrived.
Frost
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Korea (South)1042 Posts
December 18 2012 22:48 GMT
#1387
Hmmmm. i wonder if that HoN hacker struck LeagueofLegends just right now.
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
December 18 2012 22:50 GMT
#1388
On December 19 2012 07:42 Amarok wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 19 2012 07:35 Requizen wrote:
On December 19 2012 07:30 Inschato wrote:
On December 19 2012 07:22 Phrost wrote:
I thought elisa's gave tenacity... imho if it had that again it'd be worth buying

I think if they put an actual useful stat on an item that up and disappears it would be broken. Like, if it had Tenacity on it right now, no one would buy any of the other tenacity items ever (except manaless champions maybe.)

Well, that's an issue with the "disappearing item" design as it is. If it's good, anyone who wants the stat (in the case of Tenacity, pretty much everyone unless the enemy team has no CC) will buy it. If the stats aren't good (low amounts of regen, for instance, or CDR on Summoners that many people don't take) then it's pointless to get.

Imagine if there was like an AD or AP one. I mean, damn.


It would still come down to whether the item was gold efficient. A gold inefficient item is going to put you behind no matter whether the stats are useful or not, and slot efficiency is absolutely worthless if you have open slots which is usually going to be the case prior to the 40 minute mark.


Sure, but there are plenty of situations where its fine to put yourself behind in order to gain an advantage later in the game. Playing Vayne for example. Also securing an advantage and then sacrificing part of it (hopefully not all of it) for later benefit is a common and good strategy
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
57 Corvette
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada5941 Posts
December 18 2012 22:51 GMT
#1389
T_T
[image loading]
Survival is winning, everything else is bullshit.
Mazzi
Profile Joined August 2012
440 Posts
December 18 2012 22:52 GMT
#1390
Whatsup with LoL? ugh come home from work to this??? sad
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-18 22:53:42
December 18 2012 22:52 GMT
#1391
On December 19 2012 07:48 Frost wrote:
Hmmmm. i wonder if that HoN hacker struck LeagueofLegends just right now.

That was just a script kiddie taking advantage of S2's horrendous database security. No real hacking involved and certainly didn't do anything to the HoN servers.

Edit: LoL Status ‏@lolstatus

We are aware that the game in NA is experiencing technical issues and we are currently investigating.
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
December 18 2012 22:52 GMT
#1392
On December 19 2012 07:51 57 Corvette wrote:
T_T
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

How's Sejuani nowadays?
It's your boy Guzma!
Amarok
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia2003 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-18 23:06:21
December 18 2012 22:52 GMT
#1393
On December 19 2012 07:44 willoc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 19 2012 07:04 Amarok wrote:
On December 19 2012 06:39 willoc wrote:
On December 19 2012 06:11 Amarok wrote:
On Elysias Miracle, I've been curious to try it on Dominion. If you're taking the Summoner Spell cooldown mastery you can get Revive's CD down to around 6 minutes. This means you can (generally) use it 4 times instead of 3 and have less downtime on the health bonus. The slot efficiency isn't that useful, but assuming you can use the sustain it might be worth the early sacrifice to combat stats on some champs by purchasing it straight out of the gate.


I saw this being discussed somewhere else but the benefits of a decrease in Revive cooldown is a bit suspect as you would have to die and revive a lot to get that extra revive in the short time-frame of a Dominion match. Revive has been nerfed a bit too... dunno if it will be such a dominant summoner spell in Dominion anymore but we will have to see.


I think that holds much more true in SR than it does in Dom. In close hard fought games you're going to be dying a fair bit, and even when stomping I find that I die a few times due to the regularity of teamfights. Because of the decreased rewards on champ kills, things like sacrificing yourself to hold a point for a few extra seconds while reinforcements arrive or putting yourself out of position and pushing down a point giving time for an assassin to gank bot before shooting back to defend top with imp revive can really change the flow of a game in a way no other summoner can.

Trouble with Miracle is that Revive really is for making game changing plays, while regen isn't really a combat statistic that helps you do that. It's also a combat statistic that is most valuable when you're alive for a significant period of time, again not something that synergizes particularly well with Revive. It's still tempting because the massive CD is the only thing keeping Revive from being downright broken in there.


Also just wanted to point out that when doing calculations on how often you can use Revive you have to factor in excess alive time as you will never always die right when your revive gets off cooldown. As the cooldown time drops, i would think that the excess alive time would go up as well because you wouldn't start dying more often/earlier (unless intentionally?).


This is definitely true, but I think using it 4 times would be a reasonable assumption. Games average 30 minutes so that allows for 6 minutes of "excess alive time" which I think is reasonable. Using it 5 times in a match while possible, is probably unreasonable.

EDIT: Actually games don't average 30 minutes. My mistake. Getting 4 revives might not be a regular occurrence which would make Miracle trash tier again.
Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity
57 Corvette
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada5941 Posts
December 18 2012 22:58 GMT
#1394
On December 19 2012 07:52 Requizen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 19 2012 07:51 57 Corvette wrote:
T_T
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

How's Sejuani nowadays?


Her first clear is still pretty shaky, but the W buff and the extra armour really helped. I really like liandrys on her, but some say that its not worth delaying aegis.
Survival is winning, everything else is bullshit.
WhiteDog
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France8650 Posts
December 18 2012 22:58 GMT
#1395
On December 19 2012 07:51 57 Corvette wrote:
T_T
[image loading]

Baller playing Sejuani.
"every time WhiteDog overuses the word "seriously" in a comment I can make an observation on his fragile emotional state." MoltkeWarding
Amarok
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia2003 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-18 23:01:49
December 18 2012 22:58 GMT
#1396
On December 19 2012 07:50 sob3k wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 19 2012 07:42 Amarok wrote:
On December 19 2012 07:35 Requizen wrote:
On December 19 2012 07:30 Inschato wrote:
On December 19 2012 07:22 Phrost wrote:
I thought elisa's gave tenacity... imho if it had that again it'd be worth buying

I think if they put an actual useful stat on an item that up and disappears it would be broken. Like, if it had Tenacity on it right now, no one would buy any of the other tenacity items ever (except manaless champions maybe.)

Well, that's an issue with the "disappearing item" design as it is. If it's good, anyone who wants the stat (in the case of Tenacity, pretty much everyone unless the enemy team has no CC) will buy it. If the stats aren't good (low amounts of regen, for instance, or CDR on Summoners that many people don't take) then it's pointless to get.

Imagine if there was like an AD or AP one. I mean, damn.


It would still come down to whether the item was gold efficient. A gold inefficient item is going to put you behind no matter whether the stats are useful or not, and slot efficiency is absolutely worthless if you have open slots which is usually going to be the case prior to the 40 minute mark.


Sure, but there are plenty of situations where its fine to put yourself behind in order to gain an advantage later in the game. Playing Vayne for example. Also securing an advantage and then sacrificing part of it (hopefully not all of it) for later benefit is a common and good strategy


Which would be fine. Depending on how inefficient it was, it would become a situationally strong item with an element of risk involved in the purchase. I think that would (or at least could) be balanced, not broken.
Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
December 18 2012 23:02 GMT
#1397
I hope I got a loss forgiven for my last game. I played so bad =\
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
December 18 2012 23:05 GMT
#1398
On December 19 2012 07:29 onlywonderboy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 19 2012 07:20 Sufficiency wrote:
On December 19 2012 06:36 onlywonderboy wrote:
On December 19 2012 06:15 Sufficiency wrote:
Woooooo therealkiwikid!

So the dWoD thing was just Pobelter trolling hard, what a jerk xP

Interested to to see how Kiwi does on Dig, looked solid in the games where he was trying out. Good Organization Dignitas bringing in fresh talent to the scene.


I felt it had maybe 10% truthfulness to it though, because how scarra reacted.

I just thought Scarra replied that way to make it seem like it was a joke. Some high level reverse psychology techniques. Turns out I was wrong.


Yes that's what I thought too.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
December 18 2012 23:06 GMT
#1399
On December 19 2012 07:48 Frost wrote:
Hmmmm. i wonder if that HoN hacker struck LeagueofLegends just right now.


Pretty sure that was some sort of SQL injection that allowed him to download the database.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
December 18 2012 23:09 GMT
#1400
Played Syndra. UGH. Whenever somebody wandered into my range, a Q, WQ R + ult almost killed them (did once I had DFG, 'cept when they had Heal or Lux's shield available because your animations are so slow), but with only 675 range on her ult it's literally impossible to catch a ranged target without having to blow flash, and then you're in range of whoever has the power to burst you during the game.

I feel like she can do some decent clean-up after messy fights with some CDR, but jungle fights tend to screw you because her W works like Trist's jump, meaning you can easily get a ball stuck in a wall upon taking off and totally miss your target—she's the only champ whose skillshots are negatively affected that way I believe.
My Q felt like they didn't hit hard enough, I'll try going WQE instead of WEQ but I'm gonna feel pretty sad if I don't get wonderful stuns with the cd and narrower width.

Well, I couldn't really farm nor roam because I was literally 1v2 against Lux+Amumu, and since Lux can clear faster with E and assist from farther with R, I could only weep as both top and bot fed from never warding at all (and starting to rage as soon as the topic of vision was mentioned). Maybe in a more decent game I wouldn't have missed so many kills by like 100 HP with better items.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
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