EPT[Patch 1.0.0.153: Preseason Balance Update 1] GD - Page 66
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On December 19 2012 01:31 Requizen wrote:Seuss, I saw a Jungle Akali in a game this past week and thought it was kind of a joke, but she did surprisingly well. Is this actually legit or is it just a sort of cheesy pick that works sometimes? I can't really see her having good ganks or anything like that. It's legit. She's been viable since Season 2, but the meta never really meshed with what she offered. Now, however, we're seeing a lot more team compositions based on diving, and assassins in general have become more potent. Her ganks are meh before level 4 unless your lanes have crowd control, but after level 6 they are absolutely frightening. Better still, she can continuously clear the jungle without backing and hit level 6 as fast as any solo lane. If you aren't terrified of a permanently MIA level 6-7 Akali roaming around before the 10 minute mark, you should be. It also helps that Smite turns into a situational self-heal. With just Gunblade and Spell Vamp Quints you'll heal yourself for 430 Health at level 18 if you Smite a nearby minion or monster. That's more than Heal itself, a Giant's Belt's worth of Health, and you can do that every minute. The only way jungle Akali will fail to take off in Season 3 is if people start laning her again and get her nerfed into the ground first. | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
Also, Vi was stated to me the last champion for 2012. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On December 19 2012 02:49 Seuss wrote: It's legit. She's been viable since Season 2, but the meta never really meshed with what she offered. Now, however, we're seeing a lot more team compositions based on diving, and assassins in general have become more potent. Her ganks are meh before level 4 unless your lanes have crowd control, but after level 6 they are absolutely frightening. Better still, she can continuously clear the jungle without backing and hit level 6 as fast as any solo lane. If you aren't terrified of a permanently MIA level 6-7 Akali roaming around before the 10 minute mark, you should be. It also helps that Smite turns into a situational self-heal. With just Gunblade and Spell Vamp Quints you'll heal yourself for 430 Health at level 18 if you Smite a nearby minion or monster. That's more than Heal itself, a Giant's Belt's worth of Health, and you can do that every minute. The only way jungle Akali will fail to take off in Season 3 is if people start laning her again and get her nerfed into the ground first. Got a quick and dirty guide? I'd be more than happy to use my Nurse Akali skin again  | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
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mordek
United States12704 Posts
 I literally just updated my guide today, published a video, and posted about it on my blog. A few important pointers:
Also, when your team has 2+ tanky champions there's no need to build tanky. Just go Gunblade -> DFG -> Lich Bane, be a little patient about how you enter fights, and shock yourself giddy when the enemy carries disappear in a puff of smoke. | ||
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Crownlol
United States3726 Posts
- When do I roam to make plays? After my first buy? (boots and 2x doran, or catalyst, or chalice depending) - It seems that my higher ELO friends chide me for 2 things with counter-roaming. Either A. I leave the lane every time I lose track of my lane opponent to ensure they aren't going to gank bot or top, which means I lose some farm and I get shit for low CS at the 15minute mark or B. I don't leave my lane and one of the lanes gets ganked while I sit there freefarming. This may just be gamesense, or we aren't warding enough in general, but I often say "mid mia" then bot gets ganked "mid why weren't you here!? follow your opponent, make plays" | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On December 19 2012 02:18 AsmodeusXI wrote: Well yeah, it's just easier on the internet. And, to be fair, when I mean flaming, raging, and trolling, I tend to mean the explosions that tend to occur (almost certainly out-of-proportion) around bly, Sufficiency, PrinceXizor, ELO hell, Gp5, etc etc etc that are just how TL LoL GD rolls. thats because they have weird views but if nobody can prove them wrong whats to stop other peoplefromthinking what they think (assuming it is wrong) and ELO hell gp10 is the same, nothing wrong with the discussion its just the same shit gets argued over and over because the GD thread is so scattered we cant just link a therad with all the elo hell /gp5 discussion to post in | ||
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
Following the enemy may not always be the right choice. Call the MIA in solo q obviously. Follow up if you can catch up. Sometimes, its better to shove the lane hard if your champion allows for it (Morg, Gragas, etc) and do considerable damage to the outer turret as a result. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
Runes: Spell Vamp Quints, AD Marks, Armor Seals, Flat AP Glyphs Masteries: 23/7/0 (Optional Bladed Armor) The AD passive is activated thanks to Marks and Brute Force. The AP passive will activate at level 2 due to the Flat AP Glyphs and all the AP masteries. The fastest route to level 6 is to go Wolves -> Blue -> Wraiths -> Golems -> Red -> Wraiths -> Wolves and then just cycle until level 6. You can back before level 6 if need be and still reach it by 7:00 if your execution is crisp. Don't bother ganking before level 6 unless your opponents are derping hard and/or your lanes are heavy on crowd control. One you're level 6 just roam around murdering everybody and everything. Only clear the jungle to heal between ganks and let your charges reset. Rush that Gunblade, it makes your already ridiculous ganks even more broken. The only champions to watch out for are other strong duelists. Lee Sin and Kha'zix stand out as difficult to deal with. | ||
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upperbound
United States2300 Posts
On December 19 2012 03:00 Crownlol wrote: Looking for some advice on playing the mid role better, in general. My laning phase is just dandy, but I'm weak on when to roam and gank. - When do I roam to make plays? After my first buy? (boots and 2x doran, or catalyst, or chalice depending) - It seems that my higher ELO friends chide me for 2 things with counter-roaming. Either A. I leave the lane every time I lose track of my lane opponent to ensure they aren't going to gank bot or top, which means I lose some farm and I get shit for low CS at the 15minute mark or B. I don't leave my lane and one of the lanes gets ganked while I sit there freefarming. This may just be gamesense, or we aren't warding enough in general, but I often say "mid mia" then bot gets ganked "mid why weren't you here!? follow your opponent, make plays" My noob opinion on this is that you probably aren't buying enough wards. It helps a lot to know when to follow your lane opponent if you know when/where they're going in enough time to react. Knowing when to gank/roam/counterroam is a lot about knowing where the enemy mid/jungler is, and making plays off of sufficient information. If the other mid is about equal strength to you, and you don't know that the enemy jungler is not camping in the river waiting for you to follow while your jungler is far away, it's a risky proposition to follow. Of course, there is champ-specific stuff too. I think the key is just making sure that you're doing something productive while the other mid roams (denying cs, getting in good tower damage, following, or ganking the other lane if necessary). Freefarming without a goal of moving toward an objective doesn't help your team much. On December 19 2012 03:13 Seuss wrote: Edit: Mordek beat me to the linking, but for those people who are lazy and hate clicking links: Runes: Spell Vamp Quints, AD Marks, Armor Seals, Flat AP Glyphs Masteries: 23/7/0 (Optional Bladed Armor) The AD passive is activated thanks to Marks and Brute Force. The AP passive will activate at level 2 due to the Flat AP Glyphs and all the AP masteries. The fastest route to level 6 is to go Wolves -> Blue -> Wraiths -> Golems -> Red -> Wraiths -> Wolves and then just cycle until level 6. You can back before level 6 if need be and still reach it by 7:00 if your execution is crisp. Don't bother ganking before level 6 unless your opponents are derping hard and/or your lanes are heavy on crowd control. One you're level 6 just roam around murdering everybody and everything. Only clear the jungle to heal between ganks and let your charges reset. Rush that Gunblade, it makes your already ridiculous ganks even more broken. The only champions to watch out for are other strong duelists. Lee Sin and Kha'zix stand out as difficult to deal with. Just to clarify, your guide says scaling AP glyphs -- which one is better (I could probably figure this out, but you probably already know the answer). | ||
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Sandster
United States4054 Posts
Do I NEED spell vamp quints? And you said in your article use AP/lvl blues instead of flat AP. I guess you can use enough flat to get the passive, and scaling for the rest? Or just flat AP quints without spell vamp ones? | ||
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QuakerOats
United States1024 Posts
On December 19 2012 03:00 Crownlol wrote: Looking for some advice on playing the mid role better, in general. My laning phase is just dandy, but I'm weak on when to roam and gank. - When do I roam to make plays? After my first buy? (boots and 2x doran, or catalyst, or chalice depending) - It seems that my higher ELO friends chide me for 2 things with counter-roaming. Either A. I leave the lane every time I lose track of my lane opponent to ensure they aren't going to gank bot or top, which means I lose some farm and I get shit for low CS at the 15minute mark or B. I don't leave my lane and one of the lanes gets ganked while I sit there freefarming. This may just be gamesense, or we aren't warding enough in general, but I often say "mid mia" then bot gets ganked "mid why weren't you here!? follow your opponent, make plays" On the last point, it's pretty much gamesense. A lot of lower level mids will make it completely obvious when they're ganking - for example they'll just come back to lane after buying, clear the wave that's at their tower (or push the wave quickly to your tower), and then not be there for the next wave. 99% of the time they didn't go back to buy after one wave so look for stuff like this and let your team know. I find the best times to gank are when their laner is not there (will probably be slow on noticing when you leave) and when it's believable that you would be going back to base or getting blue. When to follow is also situational, if you don't have much vision you have to be sure you don't get ambushed by their mid and jungle. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On December 19 2012 03:18 Sandster wrote: Wow Montgomery I am totally trying that next time I play. And with her Crimson skin coming back....drool. Do I NEED spell vamp quints? And you said in your article use AP/lvl blues instead of flat AP. I guess you can use enough flat to get the passive, and scaling for the rest? Or just flat AP quints without spell vamp ones? They're not strictly necessary but they're incredibly helpful. If you're lacking them you might try running a Flat AD Quint + 2 Flat AP Quints like Diamond and use 9/9/12 masteries. Thanks for the catch on the guide, I've fixed it. | ||
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adriftt
335 Posts
On December 19 2012 03:00 Crownlol wrote: Looking for some advice on playing the mid role better, in general. My laning phase is just dandy, but I'm weak on when to roam and gank. - When do I roam to make plays? After my first buy? (boots and 2x doran, or catalyst, or chalice depending) - It seems that my higher ELO friends chide me for 2 things with counter-roaming. Either A. I leave the lane every time I lose track of my lane opponent to ensure they aren't going to gank bot or top, which means I lose some farm and I get shit for low CS at the 15minute mark or B. I don't leave my lane and one of the lanes gets ganked while I sit there freefarming. This may just be gamesense, or we aren't warding enough in general, but I often say "mid mia" then bot gets ganked "mid why weren't you here!? follow your opponent, make plays" Roaming mid is all about control of the lane. Ideally you want to either push them out of lane or have them stuck on their tower before you roam. Its very easy to do this on something like Katarina.. just keep pushing so they don't want to back and once they are oom you have free reign to roam. Another tactic you can use is to push and pretend to roam if you know they are lacking wards. On many mid champions once you are six of someone face checks into you trying to follow it is a free kill. It is generally not worth it to roam when you are going to miss CS unless you are 100% guaranteed a kill. Its very possible that you will sacrifice CS only to have their bot or mid see you on a ward and just back up. If you are winning lane but unsure about if you should roam its perfectly fine to just do wraiths and grow your advantage that way. | ||
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Arekan
United States248 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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rackdude
United States882 Posts
On December 19 2012 03:00 Crownlol wrote: Looking for some advice on playing the mid role better, in general. My laning phase is just dandy, but I'm weak on when to roam and gank. - When do I roam to make plays? After my first buy? (boots and 2x doran, or catalyst, or chalice depending) - It seems that my higher ELO friends chide me for 2 things with counter-roaming. Either A. I leave the lane every time I lose track of my lane opponent to ensure they aren't going to gank bot or top, which means I lose some farm and I get shit for low CS at the 15minute mark or B. I don't leave my lane and one of the lanes gets ganked while I sit there freefarming. This may just be gamesense, or we aren't warding enough in general, but I often say "mid mia" then bot gets ganked "mid why weren't you here!? follow your opponent, make plays" Big thing: Don't "free farm" mid. That's for top and bottom. There's a reason why all the top midlaners are pushers. Opponent isn't there? Throw all your spells in get the minions into tower. Now there's no minions? Now you can't miss CS? Go gank. So if they leave to gank, push it super hard (takes a second on most characters) and go follow. You won't have missed any CS following him, the other laner will miss CS (because it's in his tower), and you'll be there to clean up the gank. Or initiate ganks yourself. Whatever you do, don't free farm. It's best to just get rid of the minions and leave every wave even if you don't think you'll have a gank because you're denying other lanes at that point without missing CS. And if they aren't denied (they don't run back to tower when you're at dragon or whatnot) you get kills. If you want some practice getting this down, play Brand or Morg. It's built into their kit to hit W and leave the lane. But the same principle works for Diana, Annie, Anivia, etc. In fact, if you see a gank, go kill someone. That's better than CSing because the opponent loses CS and becomes super scared of ganks. That's why you can win with a 70 CS Kass. | ||
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Crownlol
United States3726 Posts
On December 19 2012 03:43 rackdude wrote: Big thing: Don't "free farm" mid. That's for top and bottom. There's a reason why all the top midlaners are pushers. Opponent isn't there? Throw all your spells in get the minions into tower. Now there's no minions? Now you can't miss CS? Go gank. So if they leave to gank, push it super hard (takes a second on most characters) and go follow. You won't have missed any CS following him, the other laner will miss CS (because it's in his tower), and you'll be there to clean up the gank. Or initiate ganks yourself. Whatever you do, don't free farm. It's best to just get rid of the minions and leave every wave even if you don't think you'll have a gank because you're denying other lanes at that point without missing CS. And if they aren't denied (they don't run back to tower when you're at dragon or whatnot) you get kills. If you want some practice getting this down, play Brand or Morg. It's built into their kit to hit W and leave the lane. But the same principle works for Diana, Annie, Anivia, etc. In fact, if you see a gank, go kill someone. That's better than CSing because the opponent loses CS and becomes super scared of ganks. That's why you can win with a 70 CS Kass. Huh. That sounds mad aggressive. I'll play a few as Morg. I can see it being easy to practice as Morg just laying a pool and going to go do stuff. I also want to try Anivia, playing Protoss in sc2 makes me believe I might be good with that wall :-P | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On December 19 2012 02:59 mordek wrote: He just posted linkies a couple pages ago There's some factual errors, however, made in the guide though... Errors: You claim that scaling AP glyphs allow you to reach the AP you need at level 2 for bonus magic damage. (you need 19.5 AP to activate the autoattack magic damage passive on akali, not 9.5) Math time! 0.17 * 9 * 2 (level 2) is 3.06 AP. 1AP/level (mastery) is 2 AP. 6 flat AP from mastery. I'm only counting 11.06 AP, +5% is 11.613. You aren't activating this passive until level 6 with scaling AP glyphs. If you use flat AP glyphs, you're looking at 17.8 * 1.05 AP at level 1, 18.8*1.05 at level 2 - attaining the passive at level 2. 18.8*1.0375 (3 out of 4 points in archmage) lets you reach it at level 2. Barely. Without Archmage, you can have it at level 3. It's worth noting that contrary to what you wrote, Ignite CAN be used on jungle monsters, just not lane minions (At least according to the patch that modified ignite like this. I've ignited baron since then, but not normal or buff camps) - so it CAN speed up your jungle if you're willing to blow it. If you ignite a mob at level 1, that's 5 free AP, granting you early access to the autoattack magic damage buff. (but it does neuter your ability to duel/gank someone with summoners up, and requires you to run ignite-smite, which can make it hard to survive later in the game) My opinions: 1 - I may be too worried about getting Discipline of Force (the AP passive) early. Level 6 might be OK - it's worth like 8-9 damage then (depending on if you're hitting a person or a machete-10%applicable monster) 2- I don't like Archmage that much on Akali - you're not really stacking THAT much AP (no deathcap in sight, for example), 5% AP isn't doing a whole lot for you, especially in the early/midgame where you're busy building a gunblade / have ONLY a gunblade, and I think you do want to be activating the AP passive earlier than you are. Maybe I'm overvaluing it, though - it's worth ~6 autoattack damage at those early levels. 3 - What do you think about running 7 AD marks (all you need for the passive) and 2 hybrid pen marks? It's a really minor optimization though, and probably doesn't even help your clear speed, only your damage on champions. Furthermore in the penetration front, how do you feel about an early-ish Haunting Guise (Let's say... after the revolver?) Is the Gunblade too important to stall for some efficient earlygame stats? 4 - I feel like you may undervalue the utility Zhonya's and GA on assassins - (You recommend Zhonya only against AD heavy teams? Just cause it has a chainmail doesn't mean it's not good against AP!) Either form of invulnerability can allow you to stall for cooldowns - which, when you have all that spell vamp, can allow you to fight your way through intense situations. Edit: wow, I took so long to write this that I got mega-ninja'd. Still, I want to try out Akali jungle, and I've been looking for an excuse to pick up vamp quints! One more thing - I get the feeling 2% damage from havoc is better overall output than 3% CDR (going from 1/4 CDR to 4% CDR) | ||
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