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On January 16 2013 09:55 CrimsonLotus wrote:
As long as winning = going up I don't care about the presentation. The change is just to give lower skill players a greater feeling of progression. LoL is a "casual" game so it makes sense.
Hmm.
You know, this is the first post that may have put it into perspective for me. It does make sense for a game like LoL I suppose given their massive casual fanbase.
So then WHY ON GOD'S GREEN FUCKING EARTH DOES IT EXIST FOR SC2 AS WELL
I think I need a break.
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It's ultimate goal is to confuse the player. That's why it was in SC2 and that's why it's coming into LoL. Ignorant people are happy people 
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Because money. Games want to cater to casual people ( read: many people) so that they play the game. Starcraft is already pretty good for good, competitive people because of its depth, so allowing bad people to have fun while being bad is important. In League it's just going to prevent Elo hell cries because people won't realize they are stuck (even though they will be). All it does is hide information for people who don't know how to properly analyze it
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On January 16 2013 09:55 CrimsonLotus wrote:
As long as winning = going up I don't care about the presentation. The change is just to give lower skill players a greater feeling of progression. LoL is a "casual" game so it makes sense.
This.
I'm actually a little confused as to why this is getting such a negative reaction from most people here (apart from Riot changing something that wasn't really broken). What's wrong with a system that's more granular than the current number as long as it represents your skill level as accurately as possible?
I've can understand people being skeptical about the need for a change, but it seems a bit early to be putting the system in the trash before even seeing it implemented.
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United States23745 Posts
Good-bye Elo Hell, hello Tier Hell.
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client says patch tonight leagues coming tonight?
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United States23745 Posts
On January 16 2013 10:09 samthesaluki wrote:
client says patch tonight leagues coming tonight?
Please, this page number count is getting a little out of hand lol.
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On January 16 2013 10:08 Amarok wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 09:55 CrimsonLotus wrote:
As long as winning = going up I don't care about the presentation. The change is just to give lower skill players a greater feeling of progression. LoL is a "casual" game so it makes sense. This. I'm actually a little confused as to why this is getting such a negative reaction from most people here (apart from Riot changing something that wasn't really broken). What's wrong with a system that's more granular than the current number as long as it represents your skill level as accurately as possible?I've can understand people being skeptical about the need for a change, but it seems a bit early to be putting the system in the trash before even seeing it implemented.
It doesn't represent skill level as accurately as possible and people are skeptical because it's the exact system in place in SC2 which removes information from the player as to their actual skill level.
What it does is disjoints what is used to match players with what players see as their "ranking". There's no way disconnect between the two can actually form a proper representation of skill level. There's tons of flaws with individual ranking in a team game but what they are doing does nothing to try fix that. Its in essence denying information in the hopes that knowing less means being more content.
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tbh the only thing that worries me about the new system is the inability to fall out of leagues, currently your elo shows way more precision than it actually has. The game doesn't actually know crap about your skill level besides "You're somewhere in the 1200-1400 range" even if it says "oh you're 1318". Going from 1318 to 1342 in one day isn't you getting better, it's random fluctuations in Elo. Putting people into tiers/divisions is a more accurate representation of how the rating system really works.
although not being able to fall down kinda defeats the purpose of this
EDIT: tldr, except for the not-being-able-to-drop thing, the new system is just as accurate before, just less precise, which is good, since there isn't actually much inherent precision in the elo system to begin with
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On January 16 2013 09:35 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 09:22 kainzero wrote:On January 16 2013 08:41 UniversalSnip wrote:On January 16 2013 08:27 kainzero wrote:
sc2's system is only retarded because everyone wins
this system seems much better, once you pass a certain milestone you don't have to play with terrible players in the tier below you, lol. what? You don't understand these systems work at all, matchmaking still uses elo, it's just hidden. This is about how information is presented to you, not how you get paired. Ranking systems without negative feedback that stops you playing are what game companies having been moving toward for a while, but it's cosmetic. so theoretically if i get into gold tier, then if i go on a 30 game losing streak, i get matched up with crappy people? if that's true then this system sucks just like sc2 and sc2's system that is exactly how it works although as someone who is in gold and sucks you would get matched up with crappy players like me whether you lose streak or not -_-
don't say that
we had that one time when we played 3s and then i forgot to ult you as lulu on your corki
that was a terrible game, lol
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On January 16 2013 10:11 thenexusp wrote:
tbh the only thing that worries me about the new system is the inability to fall out of leagues, currently your elo shows way more precision than it actually has. The game doesn't actually know crap about your skill level besides "You're somewhere in the 1200-1400 range" even if it says "oh you're 1318". Going from 1318 to 1342 in one day isn't you getting better, it's random fluctuations in Elo. Putting people into tiers/divisions is a more accurate representation of how the rating system really works.
although not being able to fall down kinda defeats the purpose of this
I'm guessing they wanted a remnant of the "Top Elo ever placed". Though, the wording on the forum posts seem to suggest that you CAN get demoted.
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On January 16 2013 10:02 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 09:55 CrimsonLotus wrote:
As long as winning = going up I don't care about the presentation. The change is just to give lower skill players a greater feeling of progression. LoL is a "casual" game so it makes sense. Hmm. You know, this is the first post that may have put it into perspective for me. It does make sense for a game like LoL I suppose given their massive casual fanbase. So then WHY ON GOD'S GREEN FUCKING EARTH DOES IT EXIST FOR SC2 AS WELL I think I need a break.
Because most games with a sustainable, large community have a very high Casual to Competitive ratio. Believe it or not a very, very sizable portion of WoW subscribers never hit the level cap. In fact, I played starting less than a half-year after WoW's launch and never had a level 60 until after BC came out (though I had dozens of low level alts!). If you want to have lots and lots of people playing your game and generating buzz (i.e. you want to make an honest to goodness eSport), you have to spend some time catering to casuals.
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It's not about people who are bad feeling good about themselves. well, maybe that's part of it, but it doesn't do much for that because you still get a bad label if you're bad, even if it's less specific. it's about avoiding the feeling of having been punished for playing.
eg you play 5 games one night and you lose 11 net elo. people do that and they feel like "why did I play? if I hadn't played at all tonight I'd have a better rank." Of course that'll still be true, but the advantage of these systems is that it goes to lengths to avoid shoving that fact in the player's face.
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Lol... I bet everyone says "high gold" or "high <your division>" w/e, like everyone does in SC2.
Oh how human ego makes me giggle.
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On January 16 2013 10:15 UniversalSnip wrote:
It's not about people who are bad feeling good about themselves. well, maybe that's part of it, but it doesn't do much for that because you still get a bad label if you're bad, even if it's less specific. it's about avoiding the feeling of having been punished for playing.
eg you play 5 games one night and you lose 11 net elo. people do that and they feel like "why did I play? if I hadn't played at all tonight I'd have a better rank." Of course that'll still be true, but the advantage of these systems is that it goes to lengths to avoid shoving that fact in the player's face.
You lose League Points instead of Elo now. I'm not sure that solves anything.
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United States23745 Posts
On January 16 2013 10:16 SeeDLiNg wrote:
Lol... I bet everyone says "high gold" or "high <your division>" w/e, like everyone does in SC2.
Oh how human ego makes me giggle.
Just like people brag about their Elo now, not too different in that regard.
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United States12270 Posts
I'm not gonna be figuring out this system because I don't play LoL, but it's pretty funny to me that they're essentially ripping off SC2's heavily obfuscated system. I get the casual-oriented progression incentives and the "promotion chance" matches are reminiscent of Tekken, but still.... really? Seems that an increasing number of SC2 players have been clamoring for visible MMR probably because it's frustrating to not know where exactly you stand, but Riot is going the other direction which is pretty bizarre. Maybe after someone creates a LoL version of the Ladder Guide their players will start rioting (heh) and demanding visible Elo again, haha.
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On January 16 2013 10:13 dottycakes wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 10:11 thenexusp wrote:
tbh the only thing that worries me about the new system is the inability to fall out of leagues, currently your elo shows way more precision than it actually has. The game doesn't actually know crap about your skill level besides "You're somewhere in the 1200-1400 range" even if it says "oh you're 1318". Going from 1318 to 1342 in one day isn't you getting better, it's random fluctuations in Elo. Putting people into tiers/divisions is a more accurate representation of how the rating system really works.
although not being able to fall down kinda defeats the purpose of this I'm guessing they wanted a remnant of the "Top Elo ever placed". Though, the wording on the forum posts seem to suggest that you CAN get demoted.
You can only get demoted if you are inactive for a while. Sorta how elo is now at a certain point.
This is what happens if you just end up losing lots.
"Matchmaking will continue to match you based on a hidden MMR (matchmaking rating) that's tracked behind the scenes. If you are continually losing matches at the bottom of Gold tier, you'll start to play against Silver players even though you're in a Gold league.
There are a lot of checks and balances that must be passed before you can move up a tier, so we don't think that it will be common for players to be in this situation (with the exception of something like Elo boosting, which we'll be continuing to address)."
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I do not understand the need for and am suspicious of this new rating system.
I rather like the elo rating. They say that elo is bad for giving you benchmarks to work towards. For me, working towards 1400 is a pretty good benchmark. After that I will probably set a new benchmark, say 1500.
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On January 16 2013 10:19 Excalibur_Z wrote:I'm not gonna be figuring out this system because I don't play LoL, but it's pretty funny to me that they're essentially ripping off SC2's heavily obfuscated system. I get the casual-oriented progression incentives and the "promotion chance" matches are reminiscent of Tekken, but still.... really? Seems that an increasing number of SC2 players have been clamoring for visible MMR probably because it's frustrating to not know where exactly you stand, but Riot is going the other direction which is pretty bizarre. Maybe after someone creates a LoL version of the Ladder Guide their players will start rioting (heh) and demanding visible Elo again, haha.
There's been a demand for visible Elo since the beta days. Riot hasn't listened. Back then, people wanted visible elo ratings even for normals, and yea that didn't happen. The closest you have are things like lolking and elobuff to try to get a reasonable guess at another person's skill level(and even then those are third-party websites)
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EPT
