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On January 14 2013 18:30 Filter wrote:
This is going to sound insane, but I really think Zed is a legitimate bot laner in place of a more traditional ADC. Before you rip it, go ahead and try it out. Zed+CC based support like Blitz, Taric, Leona works really well and I've put in about 20 games with a buddy doing it winning around 80% of them. I wonder how much is the shock of Zed being played in that lane, and how much is actually his kit making it work though.
The basic idea is that Zed can use his Q to get early farm/poke harass from outside an adc's range (even caits). His base movement speed means he doesn't need to get boots at all really in the lane phase (Adc's need Tier 2 boots to really be faster than him). He's then able to use his shadow/shadow slash to harass extremely well from range. He's great in condensed fights with huge sustained AoE damage when things get up close. With somebody like Blitz or Leona his level 6 is a 100% kill if the support can land skills, even with no items he's perfectly capable of hammering a 100% to 0 death at level 6 with a bit of help. He's also an extremely good farmer, capable of taking entire creep waves in a single spell. He can even range clear them if need be.
Zed's 6 item build is also extremely cheap (favoring tabs, double bt, lw, warmog, ga, all "big" items are only 2600 gold). His impact in teamfights is crazy, he has the ability to not only burst the other teams adcs right away but if you position yourself and your shadows right you can do a ton of AoE to the rest of the team too. With his 450-500ad and 30% lifesteal his auto's also hurt when people are close to him.
Give it a shot with a buddy and tell me how you think it feels, but in the games I played it felt really good. Above and beyond just cheesing the lane with a bruiser he feels like he transitions to teamfights extremely well, something your average assassin/burst caster can't do as well as an adc.
I don't see Zed being an ADC, his kit will make so that he gets insta-killed if he ults in, and the goal of an ADC is to make sustained damage rather than trade a kill for a kill
You are not supposed to play him that way, and I don't know but maybe in higher ELO than yours ( and mine too, I'm bad ) it just isn't possible against any decent players, because you just get owned as a melee ad carry with really weak HP and resists
( Just my humble opinion tho )
( And I think its not that much that he's a bad ADC, it's more the fact that you force your to play without a real one like Ez, Cait or graves )
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On January 14 2013 20:21 CutieBK wrote:
Question: attack speed marks. Yay or nay?
I've been running them simply because I haven't got a spare Rune page for anything else yet, but they are best on auto-attacking mainly champions, for instance Cait, Nocturne, Jax, Vayne, anyone that procs a passive with certain amount of attacks, or Varus with his blight.
Ones to not grab them on would include Ezreal, anyone without the passives or ones like Teemo that have a persistent effect and can't stack.
Edit: I also run AS quints for these champs.
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Why would csing on corki be harder than any other ranged ad? Trist i can understand because the passive of e sometimes lowers minions so you cant get the second one.
Sometime people also like to run. 6 ad marks +. 3 at spd on vayne, twitch
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On January 14 2013 20:34 AsnSensation wrote:
Why would csing on corki be harder than any other ranged ad? Trist i can understand because the passive of e sometimes lowers minions so you cant get the second one.
Sometime people also like to run. 6 ad marks +. 3 at spd on vayne, twitch
animation blows until you get some attack speed from levels
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United States47024 Posts
On January 14 2013 20:32 GregMandel wrote:
I don't see Zed being an ADC, his kit will make so that he gets insta-killed if he ults in, and the goal of an ADC is to make sustained damage rather than trade a kill for a kill
You are not supposed to play him that way, and I don't know but maybe in higher ELO than yours ( and mine too, I'm bad ) it just isn't possible against any decent players, because you just get owned as a melee ad carry with really weak HP and resists
( Just my humble opinion tho )
( And I think its not that much that he's a bad ADC, it's more the fact that you force your to play without a real one like Ez, Cait or graves )
You don't play him as an AD carry just because he's bot lane.
His laning doesn't hem him into his role.
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On January 14 2013 20:36 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2013 20:32 GregMandel wrote:
I don't see Zed being an ADC, his kit will make so that he gets insta-killed if he ults in, and the goal of an ADC is to make sustained damage rather than trade a kill for a kill
You are not supposed to play him that way, and I don't know but maybe in higher ELO than yours ( and mine too, I'm bad ) it just isn't possible against any decent players, because you just get owned as a melee ad carry with really weak HP and resists
( Just my humble opinion tho )
( And I think its not that much that he's a bad ADC, it's more the fact that you force your to play without a real one like Ez, Cait or graves ) You don't play him as an AD carry just because he's bot lane. His laning doesn't hem him into his role.
reported for not following the meta
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On January 14 2013 20:35 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2013 20:34 AsnSensation wrote:
Why would csing on corki be harder than any other ranged ad? Trist i can understand because the passive of e sometimes lowers minions so you cant get the second one.
Sometime people also like to run. 6 ad marks +. 3 at spd on vayne, twitch animation blows until you get some attack speed from levels
Really? Never had that problem, although i agree that the animation on urfrider could be confusing if you use that skin for the first time.
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On January 14 2013 20:36 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2013 20:32 GregMandel wrote:
I don't see Zed being an ADC, his kit will make so that he gets insta-killed if he ults in, and the goal of an ADC is to make sustained damage rather than trade a kill for a kill
You are not supposed to play him that way, and I don't know but maybe in higher ELO than yours ( and mine too, I'm bad ) it just isn't possible against any decent players, because you just get owned as a melee ad carry with really weak HP and resists
( Just my humble opinion tho )
( And I think its not that much that he's a bad ADC, it's more the fact that you force your to play without a real one like Ez, Cait or graves ) You don't play him as an AD carry just because he's bot lane. His laning doesn't hem him into his role.
He talked explicitly about the fact that he takes the role the ADC, what is the interest in playing Zed bot lane ? He'll get a support, and a support is necessary for an ADC ( and even that I'm not even sure ), so if you build him bruiser bot it's completely useless because you don't need the support, you force your team to not pick a real ADC and you even weaken him because he mostly scales with levels more than items and by playing him duo bot you delay his levels.
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On January 14 2013 20:42 GregMandel wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2013 20:36 TheYango wrote:On January 14 2013 20:32 GregMandel wrote:
I don't see Zed being an ADC, his kit will make so that he gets insta-killed if he ults in, and the goal of an ADC is to make sustained damage rather than trade a kill for a kill
You are not supposed to play him that way, and I don't know but maybe in higher ELO than yours ( and mine too, I'm bad ) it just isn't possible against any decent players, because you just get owned as a melee ad carry with really weak HP and resists
( Just my humble opinion tho )
( And I think its not that much that he's a bad ADC, it's more the fact that you force your to play without a real one like Ez, Cait or graves ) You don't play him as an AD carry just because he's bot lane. His laning doesn't hem him into his role. He talked explicitly about the fact that he takes the role the ADC, what is the interest in playing Zed bot lane ? He'll get a support, and a support is necessary for an ADC ( and even that I'm not even sure ), so if you build him bruiser bot it's completely useless because you don't need the support, you force your team to not pick a real ADC and you even weaken him because he mostly scales with levels more than items and by playing him duo bot you delay his levels.
A major point of having an ADC is the ability to hit towers, and zed doesn't offer anything in this field.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On January 14 2013 20:27 AsnSensation wrote:
Not on ad but certain junglers like amumu naut sure. Also kayle is good with as marks too
Specifically on Amumu I prefer armor marks over Attack Speed. But yeah, it's core on many many junglers, including but not limited to Naut, Maokai, Skarner, Nunu (for sustain and damage).
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Kill lane bots are nothing new. Maybe if Zed really excels in those, you could send a Zed + Blitz/Leona/taric bot, and have Corki or something top. Its definitely doable, but i am not sure if Zed is the best one for the role.
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On January 14 2013 20:32 GregMandel wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2013 18:30 Filter wrote:
This is going to sound insane, but I really think Zed is a legitimate bot laner in place of a more traditional ADC. Before you rip it, go ahead and try it out. Zed+CC based support like Blitz, Taric, Leona works really well and I've put in about 20 games with a buddy doing it winning around 80% of them. I wonder how much is the shock of Zed being played in that lane, and how much is actually his kit making it work though.
The basic idea is that Zed can use his Q to get early farm/poke harass from outside an adc's range (even caits). His base movement speed means he doesn't need to get boots at all really in the lane phase (Adc's need Tier 2 boots to really be faster than him). He's then able to use his shadow/shadow slash to harass extremely well from range. He's great in condensed fights with huge sustained AoE damage when things get up close. With somebody like Blitz or Leona his level 6 is a 100% kill if the support can land skills, even with no items he's perfectly capable of hammering a 100% to 0 death at level 6 with a bit of help. He's also an extremely good farmer, capable of taking entire creep waves in a single spell. He can even range clear them if need be.
Zed's 6 item build is also extremely cheap (favoring tabs, double bt, lw, warmog, ga, all "big" items are only 2600 gold). His impact in teamfights is crazy, he has the ability to not only burst the other teams adcs right away but if you position yourself and your shadows right you can do a ton of AoE to the rest of the team too. With his 450-500ad and 30% lifesteal his auto's also hurt when people are close to him.
Give it a shot with a buddy and tell me how you think it feels, but in the games I played it felt really good. Above and beyond just cheesing the lane with a bruiser he feels like he transitions to teamfights extremely well, something your average assassin/burst caster can't do as well as an adc. I don't see Zed being an ADC, his kit will make so that he gets insta-killed if he ults in, and the goal of an ADC is to make sustained damage rather than trade a kill for a kill You are not supposed to play him that way, and I don't know but maybe in higher ELO than yours ( and mine too, I'm bad ) it just isn't possible against any decent players, because you just get owned as a melee ad carry with really weak HP and resists ( Just my humble opinion tho ) ( And I think its not that much that he's a bad ADC, it's more the fact that you force your to play without a real one like Ez, Cait or graves )
I don't think he is arguing that zed can be a substitute to an ad carry but that he jut makes a really good kill lane bot. You can always end an ad solotop or mid and still have the role.
On a semi related note is corki still a viable top lane this season? I played him a lot S2 but haven't had the oppourtunity lately.
Edit: my keyboard is dying and not picking up c's and s's very well.
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On January 14 2013 21:05 Bwaaaa wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2013 20:32 GregMandel wrote:On January 14 2013 18:30 Filter wrote:
This is going to sound insane, but I really think Zed is a legitimate bot laner in place of a more traditional ADC. Before you rip it, go ahead and try it out. Zed+CC based support like Blitz, Taric, Leona works really well and I've put in about 20 games with a buddy doing it winning around 80% of them. I wonder how much is the shock of Zed being played in that lane, and how much is actually his kit making it work though.
The basic idea is that Zed can use his Q to get early farm/poke harass from outside an adc's range (even caits). His base movement speed means he doesn't need to get boots at all really in the lane phase (Adc's need Tier 2 boots to really be faster than him). He's then able to use his shadow/shadow slash to harass extremely well from range. He's great in condensed fights with huge sustained AoE damage when things get up close. With somebody like Blitz or Leona his level 6 is a 100% kill if the support can land skills, even with no items he's perfectly capable of hammering a 100% to 0 death at level 6 with a bit of help. He's also an extremely good farmer, capable of taking entire creep waves in a single spell. He can even range clear them if need be.
Zed's 6 item build is also extremely cheap (favoring tabs, double bt, lw, warmog, ga, all "big" items are only 2600 gold). His impact in teamfights is crazy, he has the ability to not only burst the other teams adcs right away but if you position yourself and your shadows right you can do a ton of AoE to the rest of the team too. With his 450-500ad and 30% lifesteal his auto's also hurt when people are close to him.
Give it a shot with a buddy and tell me how you think it feels, but in the games I played it felt really good. Above and beyond just cheesing the lane with a bruiser he feels like he transitions to teamfights extremely well, something your average assassin/burst caster can't do as well as an adc. I don't see Zed being an ADC, his kit will make so that he gets insta-killed if he ults in, and the goal of an ADC is to make sustained damage rather than trade a kill for a kill You are not supposed to play him that way, and I don't know but maybe in higher ELO than yours ( and mine too, I'm bad ) it just isn't possible against any decent players, because you just get owned as a melee ad carry with really weak HP and resists ( Just my humble opinion tho ) ( And I think its not that much that he's a bad ADC, it's more the fact that you force your to play without a real one like Ez, Cait or graves ) I don't think he is arguing that zed can be a substitute to an ad carry but that he jut makes a really good kill lane bot. You can always end an ad solotop or mid and still have the role. On a semi related note is corki still a viable top lane this season? I played him a lot S2 but haven't had the oppourtunity lately. Edit: my keyboard is dying and not picking up c's and s's very well.
I think the more interesting question is why the meta is so stuck to the ad+support model. There are solo lanes in which an ad carry would do very well without a support. So why stick him into the duo lane? Run a kill lane against the enemy ad and put your own ad into a solo lane, when the opportunity arises. Maybe it's really bad, but I find it hard to believe that there aren't at least some compositions which would favor that.
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Thanks for the answers!
I'm really looking for some way to mix up my adc play, at the moment it seems like a good idea to mess around with builds just because the season is still being "figured out" - there are alot of wonky stuff that could work, imo 
Are there any really new trends going on with adc or will it just stay with the BT rushing(as far as I've seen atleast) that's been going on recently?
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in general, ad + support lane stomps double melee lane.
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On January 14 2013 21:11 BlueSpace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2013 21:05 Bwaaaa wrote:On January 14 2013 20:32 GregMandel wrote:On January 14 2013 18:30 Filter wrote:
This is going to sound insane, but I really think Zed is a legitimate bot laner in place of a more traditional ADC. Before you rip it, go ahead and try it out. Zed+CC based support like Blitz, Taric, Leona works really well and I've put in about 20 games with a buddy doing it winning around 80% of them. I wonder how much is the shock of Zed being played in that lane, and how much is actually his kit making it work though.
The basic idea is that Zed can use his Q to get early farm/poke harass from outside an adc's range (even caits). His base movement speed means he doesn't need to get boots at all really in the lane phase (Adc's need Tier 2 boots to really be faster than him). He's then able to use his shadow/shadow slash to harass extremely well from range. He's great in condensed fights with huge sustained AoE damage when things get up close. With somebody like Blitz or Leona his level 6 is a 100% kill if the support can land skills, even with no items he's perfectly capable of hammering a 100% to 0 death at level 6 with a bit of help. He's also an extremely good farmer, capable of taking entire creep waves in a single spell. He can even range clear them if need be.
Zed's 6 item build is also extremely cheap (favoring tabs, double bt, lw, warmog, ga, all "big" items are only 2600 gold). His impact in teamfights is crazy, he has the ability to not only burst the other teams adcs right away but if you position yourself and your shadows right you can do a ton of AoE to the rest of the team too. With his 450-500ad and 30% lifesteal his auto's also hurt when people are close to him.
Give it a shot with a buddy and tell me how you think it feels, but in the games I played it felt really good. Above and beyond just cheesing the lane with a bruiser he feels like he transitions to teamfights extremely well, something your average assassin/burst caster can't do as well as an adc. I don't see Zed being an ADC, his kit will make so that he gets insta-killed if he ults in, and the goal of an ADC is to make sustained damage rather than trade a kill for a kill You are not supposed to play him that way, and I don't know but maybe in higher ELO than yours ( and mine too, I'm bad ) it just isn't possible against any decent players, because you just get owned as a melee ad carry with really weak HP and resists ( Just my humble opinion tho ) ( And I think its not that much that he's a bad ADC, it's more the fact that you force your to play without a real one like Ez, Cait or graves ) I don't think he is arguing that zed can be a substitute to an ad carry but that he jut makes a really good kill lane bot. You can always end an ad solotop or mid and still have the role. On a semi related note is corki still a viable top lane this season? I played him a lot S2 but haven't had the oppourtunity lately. Edit: my keyboard is dying and not picking up c's and s's very well. I think the more interesting question is why the meta is so stuck to the ad+support model. There are solo lanes in which an ad carry would do very well without a support. So why stick him into the duo lane? Run a kill lane against the enemy ad and put your own ad into a solo lane, when the opportunity arises. Maybe it's really bad, but I find it hard to believe that there aren't at least some compositions which would favor that.
It is not that ads cannot go with out a support it is that they can share exp while still functioning at 90% capacity. Mages and bruiser need levels much more than ads so they get the solo lanes while the ad get the support because they don;t care about the lost exp in exchange for much easier farming and free wards.
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On January 14 2013 21:28 Bwaaaa wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2013 21:11 BlueSpace wrote:On January 14 2013 21:05 Bwaaaa wrote:On January 14 2013 20:32 GregMandel wrote:On January 14 2013 18:30 Filter wrote:
This is going to sound insane, but I really think Zed is a legitimate bot laner in place of a more traditional ADC. Before you rip it, go ahead and try it out. Zed+CC based support like Blitz, Taric, Leona works really well and I've put in about 20 games with a buddy doing it winning around 80% of them. I wonder how much is the shock of Zed being played in that lane, and how much is actually his kit making it work though.
The basic idea is that Zed can use his Q to get early farm/poke harass from outside an adc's range (even caits). His base movement speed means he doesn't need to get boots at all really in the lane phase (Adc's need Tier 2 boots to really be faster than him). He's then able to use his shadow/shadow slash to harass extremely well from range. He's great in condensed fights with huge sustained AoE damage when things get up close. With somebody like Blitz or Leona his level 6 is a 100% kill if the support can land skills, even with no items he's perfectly capable of hammering a 100% to 0 death at level 6 with a bit of help. He's also an extremely good farmer, capable of taking entire creep waves in a single spell. He can even range clear them if need be.
Zed's 6 item build is also extremely cheap (favoring tabs, double bt, lw, warmog, ga, all "big" items are only 2600 gold). His impact in teamfights is crazy, he has the ability to not only burst the other teams adcs right away but if you position yourself and your shadows right you can do a ton of AoE to the rest of the team too. With his 450-500ad and 30% lifesteal his auto's also hurt when people are close to him.
Give it a shot with a buddy and tell me how you think it feels, but in the games I played it felt really good. Above and beyond just cheesing the lane with a bruiser he feels like he transitions to teamfights extremely well, something your average assassin/burst caster can't do as well as an adc. I don't see Zed being an ADC, his kit will make so that he gets insta-killed if he ults in, and the goal of an ADC is to make sustained damage rather than trade a kill for a kill You are not supposed to play him that way, and I don't know but maybe in higher ELO than yours ( and mine too, I'm bad ) it just isn't possible against any decent players, because you just get owned as a melee ad carry with really weak HP and resists ( Just my humble opinion tho ) ( And I think its not that much that he's a bad ADC, it's more the fact that you force your to play without a real one like Ez, Cait or graves ) I don't think he is arguing that zed can be a substitute to an ad carry but that he jut makes a really good kill lane bot. You can always end an ad solotop or mid and still have the role. On a semi related note is corki still a viable top lane this season? I played him a lot S2 but haven't had the oppourtunity lately. Edit: my keyboard is dying and not picking up c's and s's very well. I think the more interesting question is why the meta is so stuck to the ad+support model. There are solo lanes in which an ad carry would do very well without a support. So why stick him into the duo lane? Run a kill lane against the enemy ad and put your own ad into a solo lane, when the opportunity arises. Maybe it's really bad, but I find it hard to believe that there aren't at least some compositions which would favor that. It is not that ads cannot go with out a support it is that they can share exp while still functioning at 90% capacity. Mages and bruiser need levels much more than ads so they get the solo lanes while the ad get the support because they don;t care about the lost exp in exchange for much easier farming and free wards.
Adding on to that, ADs build squishy and can thus be easily dived under their turret by a solo lane bruiser and a jungler. They are the most valuable character, why would you not choose to support them?
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On January 14 2013 20:35 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2013 20:34 AsnSensation wrote:
Why would csing on corki be harder than any other ranged ad? Trist i can understand because the passive of e sometimes lowers minions so you cant get the second one.
Sometime people also like to run. 6 ad marks +. 3 at spd on vayne, twitch animation blows until you get some attack speed from levels
But you have a bunch of free damage... I find Corki rather easy to last hit on because of the bonus damage from his passive.
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Continue from yesterday WE vs Royal is live. Actually the first game of today(3rd game in the series) has aleady over.
Stream here http://www.gamefy.cn/tv/fy1.php
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On January 14 2013 21:16 zulu_nation8 wrote:
in general, ad + support lane stomps double melee lane.
Might just be because I'm in trench elo, but in my experience, double melee, especially with gap closers, beats the crap out of adc + support until the ad gets up some items, with the exception of cait, who ranges like .. every single gap closer and has traps.
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EPT
