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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On December 27 2012 07:54 ninjakingcola wrote: #hipsterVikplayer Played him since release and loved him whole time XD *cough* *raises hand* All I can say is that I'm glad I was loud enough and persistent enough to help make Viktor a known powerhouse in the TL community. I'm fearful for the day Riot implements changes to him... | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
You still gave in to | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On December 27 2012 08:34 jcarlsoniv wrote: *cough* *raises hand* All I can say is that I'm glad I was loud enough and persistent enough to help make Viktor a known powerhouse in the TL community. I'm fearful for the day Riot implements changes to him... But maybe one day his other augments will be viable and you can make short-ranged Viktor with Power Augment and Lich Bane. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On December 27 2012 08:38 Sufficiency wrote: But maybe one day his other augments will be viable and you can make short-ranged Viktor with Power Augment and Lich Bane. Surely possible. I think that will require a meta shift though. Viktor is so powerful now because his burst is so good. If tanky mages were more "in", so to speak, I think Viktor with Power Augment tankier AP items could certainly be quite useful. On December 27 2012 08:37 Alaric wrote: I'd pretend it was teamwork but I play way too many different champs to be able to advocate him (or Syndra for that matter) without being pointed that I didn't get mid in the previous 3 weeks. :< You still gave in to Syndra though, you unfaithful midlaner. I really really like Syndra. I was sad because I spammed the fuck out of her before her buffs, and lost a LOT of elo doing so. She definitely has merit, but right now, the ratio of effort required to return for her is way higher than probably any champ in the game. Why play Syndra when you can play literally any other burst mage and work half as hard for the same return, while being less fragile? | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On December 27 2012 08:42 jcarlsoniv wrote: Surely possible. I think that will require a meta shift though. Viktor is so powerful now because his burst is so good. If tanky mages were more "in", so to speak, I think Viktor with Power Augment tankier AP items could certainly be quite useful. I really really like Syndra. I was sad because I spammed the fuck out of her before her buffs, and lost a LOT of elo doing so. She definitely has merit, but right now, the ratio of effort required to return for her is way higher than probably any champ in the game. Why play Syndra when you can play literally any other burst mage and work half as hard for the same return, while being less fragile? It's not "tanky" Viktor. His Q gives him a speed boost when he cast it with Power Augment, so it can be an infinite kiting setup. As far as Syndra is concerned, I think she is a very strong counterpick against certain mid laners that are "similar" to her (no sustain, no gap closers). Playing Orianna and Zyra against Syndra is an absolute nightmare. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On December 27 2012 08:44 Sufficiency wrote: It's not "tanky" Viktor. His Q gives him a speed boost when he cast it with Power Augment, so it can be an infinite kiting setup. Well, his Power Augment gives him health regen. The way I currently build Vik is essentially pure glass cannon burst mage. I use the range and damage of my E combined with the awesomeness of W and then the brief shield of Q to survive. If you're going to be building Power Augment and relying on Q as your main source of damage (which provides less burst than E + augment does), you will want to be able to be in the necessary range for long enough to make that viable. This requires you to be beefy enough to stay in range, so you would be building the tankier AP items that let you do that. This is mostly theory craft though, my experimentation with Power Augment is not nearly as thorough as it should be. | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
In fact I've won top against just about every common toplaner except garen, don't even fucking try it, miserable. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On December 27 2012 08:42 jcarlsoniv wrote: Surely possible. I think that will require a meta shift though. Viktor is so powerful now because his burst is so good. If tanky mages were more "in", so to speak, I think Viktor with Power Augment tankier AP items could certainly be quite useful. I really really like Syndra. I was sad because I spammed the fuck out of her before her buffs, and lost a LOT of elo doing so. She definitely has merit, but right now, the ratio of effort required to return for her is way higher than probably any champ in the game. Why play Syndra when you can play literally any other burst mage and work half as hard for the same return, while being less fragile? Scratch that, I wanted to write Zyra, I have no idea why I wrote Syndra. Anyway, that had more to do with my fiery hate for her from PBE notes while you loved her from the very beginning and mained her.  WAIT, does Syndra's W work on Zyra's plants? Syndra seems to be really strong when she gets even a sight lead in lane against a non-mobility champ, as she can just Q when she sees you, try to W something on top of you, Q again, ult and you're good to back if you don't want her to outright kill you. If she has some cdr (and a lot of them rush grail) she'll probably be able to repeat that almost everytime you're back up. She really suffers from the travel time on W (can be pretty long sometimes) and how it can get stuck in walls and towers near the start and end of the "flight", because it limits her poke to Q, and she has no way to harm a squishy until the front lines crumble, so it's hard to use her ult well before the clean-up phase unless somebody screws up (bad positioning or lack of peeling). | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On December 27 2012 08:42 jcarlsoniv wrote: I really really like Syndra. I was sad because I spammed the fuck out of her before her buffs, and lost a LOT of elo doing so. She definitely has merit, but right now, the ratio of effort required to return for her is way higher than probably any champ in the game. Why play Syndra when you can play literally any other burst mage and work half as hard for the same return, while being less fragile? Syndra has potential in competitive play, IMO, but you have to build a team around her. In solo queue you can't rely on getting a team that can work around your level 9/13 power peak, so it's probably not worth it. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On December 27 2012 09:04 Alaric wrote: Scratch that, I wanted to write Zyra, I have no idea why I wrote Syndra. Anyway, that had more to do with my fiery hate for her from PBE notes while you loved her from the very beginning and mained her. Hey now, Viktor is still my most played, friend. On December 27 2012 09:05 TheYango wrote: Syndra has potential in competitive play, IMO, but you have to build a team around her. In solo queue you can't rely on getting a team that can work around your level 9/13 power peak, so it's probably not worth it. Exactly my thoughts. | ||
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Craton
United States17295 Posts
On December 27 2012 09:09 jcarlsoniv wrote: Hey now, Viktor is still my most played, friend. To be fair, you only have 2 champions with more than 5 games played. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On December 27 2012 09:04 Alaric wrote: Scratch that, I wanted to write Zyra, I have no idea why I wrote Syndra. Anyway, that had more to do with my fiery hate for her from PBE notes while you loved her from the very beginning and mained her. WAIT, does Syndra's W work on Zyra's plants? Syndra seems to be really strong when she gets even a sight lead in lane against a non-mobility champ, as she can just Q when she sees you, try to W something on top of you, Q again, ult and you're good to back if you don't want her to outright kill you. If she has some cdr (and a lot of them rush grail) she'll probably be able to repeat that almost everytime you're back up. She really suffers from the travel time on W (can be pretty long sometimes) and how it can get stuck in walls and towers near the start and end of the "flight", because it limits her poke to Q, and she has no way to harm a squishy until the front lines crumble, so it's hard to use her ult well before the clean-up phase unless somebody screws up (bad positioning or lack of peeling). Syndra's W does work on Zyra plants, but that's not why she is strong against the plant bitch. It's mostly because Syndra got a lot of burst and her sustain damage is decent. The travel time on her W is faster iirc and it does not get stuck on wall anymore. With her ult buff in the next patch.... I don't know. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On December 27 2012 09:11 Craton wrote: To be fair, you only have 2 champions with more than 5 games played. Still the start of the season man! I haven't had the time to just mass spam games yet. | ||
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kongoline
6318 Posts
On December 27 2012 08:59 sob3k wrote: I've shit on a ton of lanes with Viktor top going like chalice rylai tanky stuff and maxing Q, you can just destroy a ton of tops who can't deal with that level of harass. I still go death augment though just because its better and you dont need the other shit from power. In fact I've won top against just about every common toplaner except garen, don't even fucking try it, miserable. what about assasins (khazix etc) or ap mids like ori,eve.lux do they destroy viktor? do u have guide with item builds etc? | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On December 27 2012 09:15 kongoline wrote: what about assasins (khazix etc) do they destroy viktor? do u have guide with item builds etc? I haven't played much vs. assassins as Viktor yet this season. I've been hesitant since the penetration changes. I feel like if I play it right, I can get enough of a lead to do well. Assassins just so annoying right now. Which is why I've started playing panth again =P Edit: Viktor trashes Eve. He can do fine vs. Ori and Lux once he has the strength to either bully them in lane or hard push creep waves. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
But that wouldn't make him especially good at bursting carries down, or at least not better than others, which he is (at least was in s2, I'm focusing too much on Swain mid to have extensive Viktor experience in s3), and as importantly which is is forte. It's not that a kiting/tanky Viktor is bad, but a bursty/glass cannon Viktor is just so much better that building otherwise is gimping yourself. It'd be pretty hard for Riot to make all 3 ways (tanky/kiting, glass cannon burst, poking utility) equally efficient, and while I would love it for how it encompasses the initial concept of the champion (evolution/adaptation/versatility) I fear that he'd be deemed OP if that ever happened <insert anti-Anivia rant here to reach my quotas>. * Syndra with Rylai is also hilarious since hitting any Q means your W will hit, so the next Q will hit too, and then you can easily use E to stun the slowed target, rylai/cdr Syndra is unkillable for bruisers without a low cd gap closer or the ability to burst her down before E comes back up. But rylai's a bad item on her apart from these chases scenarios so don't do it. Edit: against Lux I find her annoying because even though you outtrade her badly (and I mean, really badly, she's glad she got that range to still be able to farm) staying so close to her means it's harder to dodge her skillshots and if she can somehow cc you out of Q range you'll suffer (if she does it correctly she can proc her passive before you get the shield from Q—she'll have to let you cast it if she wants to auto—so your shield is "wasted", and that's a big part of your early trading). Then it's mostly a farming lane with you pushing faster and bringing more damage to your roaming, and her having more kill potential (fuck up once she can kill you, you'll need to hit E more than once to get her) and being able to follow you with her ult without exposing herself. It's a pretty annoying lane, then again Lux mids probably have more experience playing her than I have playing Viktor recently, and Soniv's plain better than I am, both mid and at the champion. On December 27 2012 09:11 Sufficiency wrote: Syndra's W does work on Zyra plants, but that's not why she is strong against the plant bitch. It's mostly because Syndra got a lot of burst and her sustain damage is decent. The travel time on her W is faster iirc and it does not get stuck on wall anymore. With her ult buff in the next patch.... I don't know. To be clearer, it's not that I find her especially weak in that sense—if you bide your time, you will have the opportunity to burst a squishy during fights. But if you have to wait until after most initiation and cc flew and people scattered, then most AP mids will have had several opportunities to blew you or your AD up from afar at that point. Seeing how these are key targets, it's gimping you up (imagine Swain having his DoT damage reduced, and some bonus damage dealt when they end: sure he can still kill people, but it'll take him longer than most other champs and he becomes weaker because of that). | ||
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arb
Noobville17922 Posts
On December 27 2012 09:20 Alaric wrote: My initial build with Viktor was Brand-like—read rylai-wota. When I had some cdr it made the clean-up phases hilarious as the shield+heal from Q made me very tanky against low damage champs while the combination of Q (full slow, low cd), W (AoE slow+stun, powerful positional tool) and E (extremely-long range weak slow) made kiting a breeze*. But that wouldn't make him especially good at bursting carries down, or at least not better than others, which he is (at least was in s2, I'm focusing too much on Swain mid to have extensive Viktor experience in s3), and as importantly which is is forte. It's not that a kiting/tanky Viktor is bad, but a bursty/glass cannon Viktor is just so much better that building otherwise is gimping yourself. It'd be pretty hard for Riot to make all 3 ways (tanky/kiting, glass cannon burst, poking utility) equally efficient, and while I would love it for how it encompasses the initial concept of the champion (evolution/adaptation/versatility) I fear that he'd be deemed OP if that ever happened <insert anti-Anivia rant here to reach my quotas>. * Syndra with Rylai is also hilarious since hitting any Q means your W will hit, so the next Q will hit too, and then you can easily use E to stun the slowed target, rylai/cdr Syndra is unkillable for bruisers without a low cd gap closer or the ability to burst her down before E comes back up. But rylai's a bad item on her apart from these chases scenarios so don't do it. ehh, i really like the 2 dring chalice death augment -> hat build on viktor. really seems like he wants that bigass ap to dump on the other mid ASAP. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On December 27 2012 09:05 TheYango wrote: Syndra has potential in competitive play, IMO, but you have to build a team around her. In solo queue you can't rely on getting a team that can work around your level 9/13 power peak, so it's probably not worth it. She has the potential, but I seriously doubt anyone will play her competitively. Even if someone, say, spent 100 games to play her at a competent level, all it takes is a single ban to ruin nearly 100 hours of effort. There is no point to pick up a new champion to play competitively unless the said champion is grossly overpowered and/or sufficiently easy to play and master. | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
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little fancy
Germany2504 Posts
My team lost three games in a row to teams without an AP mid / top. All they have is Talon / Kha'zix / Pantheon mid who rushes Cleaver and any AD jungler (Nocturne perfect example) that has a Cleaver soon, too. Nothing you can do, I die instantly as a squishy. I thought this was only a solo queue trend, but it seems to work in premade play just fine. Irrc, in yesterday's OGN CJE vs. AZF had the same shit and it went well. Who needs AP? And the PBE notes say Riot's going to buff the Cleaver armor shred again... wtf?! | ||
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