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On December 21 2012 10:41 Thereisnosaurus wrote:Show nested quote +Tried razor -> BC as Vi. It took me way too long to complete defensive stuff after that, while I was getting shat on by both their Cait and their TF (lichbane is so strong in this patch for everything except tower-killing, I feel way more miserable against a lichbane user than any champ stacking BC in the previous patch), and even with randuin's + negatron I couldn't initiate into their team without getting punished by death. That was acceptable as long as we killed the squishy for it, but I've found that Vi doesn't have enough damage for this. One cc and you're dead if you're squishy so you can't build only this anyway.
Oh, and she's trash top if you're behind. No tools to farm at all, no harass, slow escape that'll let you take tons of damage, so zoning utterly destroys her. Fall behind? The game's over for you if the opposing top is smart. In the jungle I built her mercs+ Wriggles>randuins>maw. As top I built her BC>iceborn>SV, though I'll change the SV I think. Need some way of getting CDR capped (very important on her) and MR. Don't underestimate how much the ability power does for her E too, it's a large .7 scaling AOE that you can fire off doubles of in a couple of seconds. It's not an ideal stat, but everything else on the gauntlet fits her perfectly. I'm probably going to try BC>iceborn>bulwark in my next few games, that seems to be a decent stat distribution for her.
To correct what I said earlier: she has no tools to farm from a distance at all (akin to Xin and Wukong, and contrary to Olaf or Darius), not period.
I started wriggles twice but didn't like it, it didn't really speed up my clear and I felt that HP and resists were better sheer survivability than lifesteal. Her passive is enough with the camp's sigil to keep you healthy. I'll probably try keeping the machete next time and rely on an early brutalizer for the clear speed.
As the maths some pages earlier showed, maxing Q beats E in damage, for a little more mana. Maxing E only evens out if you use it 3 times in a camp, which would mean you're clearing slowly. You're also more mobile and getting a 2nd and sometimes 3rd Q in a fight is huge.
I'm definitely sticking to the jungle for now because my experience top made me feel miserable (granted that was against Xin and we had a jungle Twitch, who doesn't clear well in s3 it seems and couldn't gank my lane early).
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On December 21 2012 11:00 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 10:41 Thereisnosaurus wrote:Tried razor -> BC as Vi. It took me way too long to complete defensive stuff after that, while I was getting shat on by both their Cait and their TF (lichbane is so strong in this patch for everything except tower-killing, I feel way more miserable against a lichbane user than any champ stacking BC in the previous patch), and even with randuin's + negatron I couldn't initiate into their team without getting punished by death. That was acceptable as long as we killed the squishy for it, but I've found that Vi doesn't have enough damage for this. One cc and you're dead if you're squishy so you can't build only this anyway.
Oh, and she's trash top if you're behind. No tools to farm at all, no harass, slow escape that'll let you take tons of damage, so zoning utterly destroys her. Fall behind? The game's over for you if the opposing top is smart. In the jungle I built her mercs+ Wriggles>randuins>maw. As top I built her BC>iceborn>SV, though I'll change the SV I think. Need some way of getting CDR capped (very important on her) and MR. Don't underestimate how much the ability power does for her E too, it's a large .7 scaling AOE that you can fire off doubles of in a couple of seconds. It's not an ideal stat, but everything else on the gauntlet fits her perfectly. I'm probably going to try BC>iceborn>bulwark in my next few games, that seems to be a decent stat distribution for her. To correct what I said earlier: she has no tools to farm from a distance at all (akin to Xin and Wukong, and contrary to Olaf or Darius), not period. I started wriggles twice but didn't like it, it didn't really speed up my clear and I felt that HP and resists were better sheer survivability than lifesteal. Her passive is enough with the camp's sigil to keep you healthy. I'll probably try keeping the machete next time and rely on an early brutalizer for the clear speed. As the maths some pages earlier showed, maxing Q beats E in damage, for a little more mana. Maxing E only evens out if you use it 3 times in a camp, which would mean you're clearing slowly. You're also more mobile and getting a 2nd and sometimes 3rd Q in a fight is huge. I'm definitely sticking to the jungle for now because my experience top made me feel miserable (granted that was against Xin and we had a jungle Twitch, who doesn't clear well in s3 it seems and couldn't gank my lane early).
Can't Vi use her E in a smart way to damage things slightly further away from her? Kind of like Evelyn?
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On December 21 2012 10:10 AsnSensation wrote:
clg playing NESL with 3 subs rofl Link, Aphro and Nhat.
What is the deal with the NESL sub situation? Seems like the NESL doesn't care much for this league. To allow someone playing for one team in the league to sub for another. o.O
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On December 21 2012 11:08 Irave wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 10:10 AsnSensation wrote:
clg playing NESL with 3 subs rofl Link, Aphro and Nhat. What is the deal with the NESL sub situation? Seems like the NESL doesn't care much for this league. To allow someone playing for one team in the league to sub for another. o.O
Yeah the sub situation seems really strange in this tournament.
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So basically Rengar was nerfed to the ground, hes no longer going to see play now. Sad about Ryze nerfs.
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On December 21 2012 11:02 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 11:00 Alaric wrote:On December 21 2012 10:41 Thereisnosaurus wrote:Tried razor -> BC as Vi. It took me way too long to complete defensive stuff after that, while I was getting shat on by both their Cait and their TF (lichbane is so strong in this patch for everything except tower-killing, I feel way more miserable against a lichbane user than any champ stacking BC in the previous patch), and even with randuin's + negatron I couldn't initiate into their team without getting punished by death. That was acceptable as long as we killed the squishy for it, but I've found that Vi doesn't have enough damage for this. One cc and you're dead if you're squishy so you can't build only this anyway.
Oh, and she's trash top if you're behind. No tools to farm at all, no harass, slow escape that'll let you take tons of damage, so zoning utterly destroys her. Fall behind? The game's over for you if the opposing top is smart. In the jungle I built her mercs+ Wriggles>randuins>maw. As top I built her BC>iceborn>SV, though I'll change the SV I think. Need some way of getting CDR capped (very important on her) and MR. Don't underestimate how much the ability power does for her E too, it's a large .7 scaling AOE that you can fire off doubles of in a couple of seconds. It's not an ideal stat, but everything else on the gauntlet fits her perfectly. I'm probably going to try BC>iceborn>bulwark in my next few games, that seems to be a decent stat distribution for her. To correct what I said earlier: she has no tools to farm from a distance at all (akin to Xin and Wukong, and contrary to Olaf or Darius), not period. I started wriggles twice but didn't like it, it didn't really speed up my clear and I felt that HP and resists were better sheer survivability than lifesteal. Her passive is enough with the camp's sigil to keep you healthy. I'll probably try keeping the machete next time and rely on an early brutalizer for the clear speed. As the maths some pages earlier showed, maxing Q beats E in damage, for a little more mana. Maxing E only evens out if you use it 3 times in a camp, which would mean you're clearing slowly. You're also more mobile and getting a 2nd and sometimes 3rd Q in a fight is huge. I'm definitely sticking to the jungle for now because my experience top made me feel miserable (granted that was against Xin and we had a jungle Twitch, who doesn't clear well in s3 it seems and couldn't gank my lane early). Can't Vi use her E in a smart way to damage things slightly further away from her? Kind of like Evelyn?
You still need to hit something to trigger the cone, so technically it's the same as cs-ing the closest minion to your side: if you aren't pretty much under tower (or your opponent/his jungler are strong enough to dive you), you're going to take damage for it, and without HP sustain (the E will proc your passive though) burst traders will make you pay for it.
Tried Eve jungle, I remember doing somewhat well on a smurf (playing AP with ArPen/armor/scaling MR/MS runes because that's all it has) but on my main with full masteries (0-21-9 because you're squishy) and better runes (MPen/armor/MR/AP) I found her clear a bit slow and dropping you pretty low. Machete+5 pots. I also felt forced to get the spirit stone after the first blue because I ran pretty low on mana not basing after a gank/a clear.
Maybe I should try AS runes and 21-9-0 masteries taking the AS too. I built boots+amp->sorcs->guise->abyssal and the game ended while I was working on deathcap (zhonya prob better out of the jungle). The team would have won the game for me anyway, and the ultimate felt a bit weaker since I lost 3% on it from the last nerf she had with my 150 or so AP.
Nerf on Riven's ult \o/ I remember Xypherous being all "It's underwhelming, I wish I could make it more powerful and giving it a true ult cd in exchange, so players feel really different when they use it". Yeah, that was her "shove you out of lane" cooldown to use upon your return.
Rengar's sustain hit really hard.
Ryze's Overload took a huge hit, wow. Oo
Syndra... wouldn't change much. Still maxing Q second.
Talon nerfs... I dunno. I wonder. People would never have played him without the stupid BC, and now that it's better I wonder if they'd play him for much longer.
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On December 21 2012 11:36 Zooper31 wrote:So basically Rengar was nerfed to the ground, hes no longer going to see play now. Sad about Ryze nerfs.
But his heal scales for 0.6 of his AD. I guess they want to make him an assassin.
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On December 21 2012 11:39 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 11:36 Zooper31 wrote:So basically Rengar was nerfed to the ground, hes no longer going to see play now. Sad about Ryze nerfs. But his heal scales for 0.6 of his AD. I guess they want to make him an assassin.
He was good because he could go tanky and still heal and do dmg. Now he has to go pure AD if he wants his shout to heal him at all. It's stupid shout does dmg based on AP, if they changed that then this would be a welcome change.
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On December 21 2012 11:39 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 11:36 Zooper31 wrote:So basically Rengar was nerfed to the ground, hes no longer going to see play now. Sad about Ryze nerfs. But his heal scales for 0.6 of his AD. I guess they want to make him an assassin.
Thats still probably the end of Rengar tbh. they need to give it its damage back if they're gonna ruin the spell by removing the heal. Udyr turtle shield nerf reverted is nice
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Random, but does anyone have a link to that Saintvicious wallpaper that was on reddit a while ago? It had a picture of him in his curse jersey and a quote from when he was threatening to bench elementz one night drunk on stream in the curse house.
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On December 21 2012 11:43 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 11:39 Sufficiency wrote:On December 21 2012 11:36 Zooper31 wrote:So basically Rengar was nerfed to the ground, hes no longer going to see play now. Sad about Ryze nerfs. But his heal scales for 0.6 of his AD. I guess they want to make him an assassin. Thats still probably the end of Rengar tbh. they need to give it its damage back if they're gonna ruin the spell by removing the heal. Udyr turtle shield nerf reverted is nice
btw, my bad. It's 0.8 * AD.
Deals 80/50/170/140/110 (+0.8*AP) magic damage to enemies in the area. Grants 15/22/29/36/43 Armor and Magic resist for 3 seconds if an enemy is hit.
Ferocity bonus: Rengar restores 0.8*AD Health.
I think it's the right move. There were some discussion about how his % health heal is broken. At least now he can't have better % health regen than Mundo and still does a shitload of damage.
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United States23745 Posts
In addition they half-reverted the Diana ult range, it's up to 825 now. Also more Annie buffs, they really want people to play Annie haha.
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Rengar is fundamentally unbalancable with the % max health heal though, so this change is a good step in a direction of him being able to be Good without being broken.
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United States23745 Posts
On December 21 2012 11:52 cLutZ wrote:
Rengar is fundamentally unbalancable with the % max health heal though, so this change is a good step in a direction of him being able to be Good without being broken.
Yeah, they said they were going to have to break him down before building him back up, getting Rengar to a balanced state is a multi-step process.
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On December 21 2012 11:52 onlywonderboy wrote:
In addition they half-reverted the Diana ult range, it's up to 825 now. Also more Annie buffs, they really want people to play Annie haha.
The Annie E buff seems pretty nice. I don't know about the Q mana cost buff though.
I wonder... if they make Annie manaless, would she be utterly broken?
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Although I love mid Ryze, I agree with the nerfs. He was just so fucking broken with all the new mana+tanky items (and Muramana, oh god).
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Riven base hp5 nerfed in half is a huge nerf LOL
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On December 21 2012 12:11 MooMooMugi wrote:
Riven base hp5 nerfed in half is a huge nerf LOL
Her ult nerf will be kinda big in lane, not being able to kill someone base then do it again is gonna be huge. Random E buff tho is odd
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On December 21 2012 12:15 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 12:11 MooMooMugi wrote:
Riven base hp5 nerfed in half is a huge nerf LOL Her ult nerf will be kinda big in lane, not being able to kill someone base then do it again is gonna be huge. Random E buff tho is odd
to make up for her regen nerf I believe
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EPT
